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21 car turn out for this weekends race. 8 - 10 car train at the front, hopefully everyone played nice.
Anyone thinking about coming out shouldn't think twice as there is great racing throughout the field. To our US friends, you are more then welcome to come join the fun anytime you wish.
Congratulations to all involved in the Formula 1200 organization continuing to help grow the series.
Having competed in my first f1200 event. I wouild like to thank and acknowledge a number of people.
First my brother Dermot who travelled from Pa.
My son Jonathan
his girlfriend Magen to crew for me.
Nick Majors kind words ,and encouragment
To all the corner workers .grid crew, timing crew. special thanks .(I know on Friday's
Test Day I kept the blue flaggers busy )
To my fellow competitors and their crews your advise was priceless in helping to set
up my car .
Kevin, Dave,Jeremy Great wheel to wheel clean racing.
Dave sorry about the incident in 2 and thanks for missing me .
Thanks Again to everyone involved in the BARC Canada Day Grand Prix
Looking forward to next event in August
Desmond Ennis
P.S. My brother in the Market for a Protoform Vee.
The magical 20+ car field was achieved.
The magical 10-car lead pack was achieved.
Excellent presentation and competition by all involved.
Kudos to everyone involved:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Lots of FV's running all with their own track time. This was an earlier event this year, I will post some pictures of this past weekend when available. Photo courtesy of Coburn Photography.
Who says spec tire won't help a class?
Damn 2 yr old spec tires and small intakes have provided 10 car lead packs .... not knowing whether the 35 yr old Lynx or 20 yr old Mysterian or 5 yr old Protoform will win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Who would want that? ;)
Having a one class run group sure is great. Have a look at the 9 car lead pack that swapped leaders all weekend. Hard to see some of the cars as I missed one at first glance due to them being so close. Special thanks to Colburn Photography for the great images.
everyone endured the heat and the racing was great.
things didnt go entirely our way the whole weekend, but thats racing. but i think everyone could say the same, except steve who was on it. pole + 2 wins, nice job.
once again the F1200's were the class of the weekend from a drivers point of view, spectators point of view and cost point of view.
see you at the next one.
This past weekend I was fortunate enough to be a spectator at Mosport for the F1200 race, I can tell you this was some of the best racing I have seen in years ( think FV runoffs). As a past competitor it didn't take long for me to realize I want to be part of it. Not only are these guys good they really care about the class. And if you are worried about travel cost let's do the math. A set of tires and rims will cost about $600 to $700 and the tires last two seasons ( what was your tire bill for the year) so the extra savings can go towards travel. To my fellow US Vee drivers join the party. I guarantee you will remember why you decided to race vee's
as I eluded to earlier the racing was great and has been all year.
I did want to publicly comment that during the last race on sunday, what happened when the full course yellow came out was a little concerning.
Given how tight the pack was I'm not surprised by what happened, its tough to see the marshalls stands through 9&10 especially when concentrating on the car in front while handling your own ride.
The full course yellow flags were out in 9, 10 and the main stand. Steve being the leader went through 2 stations at almost full speed and then let off on the straight (doing the right thing). The guys running from 4th on back were probably too busy racing to notice full double yellows were out
Several cars either passed under yellow, or made contact and climbed over each other etc. This is extremely unsafe and I was a little surprised that no action was taken by stewards to at least hand out warnings given the tight circumstances. I've been DQ'd for a lot less and I know others have as well.
We all saw that Andrew Waring's car was in a precarious position the previous lap, everyone should have been aware that a full course yellow could happen at any time.
We were all very lucky that it was not a lot worse and some cars didnt get demo'd.
Not trying to be a policeman, just trying to make everyone aware and hope we avoid it in the future.
I saw the double yellow come out well before I entered 10. I went through as Andrew said almost full pace but slightly less then full knowing no one could pass there. I accelerate out of 10 & slowed half way down the straight to try not to cause too much of an accordion affect however I was surprised at what I saw in my mirrors. I gather some people must have missed the flags.
Some of the drivers were not as aware of others around them. 2nd race I gave room in 10 where I didn't need to so I could have my car in one piece to race again. The person who passed me won't believe that however passing in 10 has been discussed before on here.
Noel ended up bouncing off the wall in 9 on the last lap in race 2, when another's pass attempt needed 8 wheels to hold his line instead of his own 4. People tend not to learn when they get away with it ;)
in the close call dept there was a couple of times where I accidently squeezed a couple guys on to the grass.
one was on the outside of me on entry to turn 2 when i had someone already underneath me.
another was the same deal in turn 4.
i went to each driver after each race and let them know it was unintended on my part to put them there, and i feel bad about putting anyone in a compromising position, but i had to ask each what were you doing there in the first place in the middle of the race.
in the grand scheme of things during the race the risk far outweighs the potential reward.
This was probably one of the best race weekends I have been involved with. 21 car field, great weather and intense racing.
That being said, running in the back of the 10 car train, I could sense and see that everyone thought they could win:checkered:! Position shuffling was amazing to watch, some moves were very questionable. The focus seemed to be on what was ahead and not around, thats when things get weird.
See? With slicks, we don't have to worry about banzai moves! Not enough of us, and we're too spread out anyway! :ha:
Good racing does produce hurt feelings and controversy. It is a good problem to have. We have been trying to be proactive and minimize it, certainly early in the season, so we don't have full-blown warfare by the end. It does tend to be the same people not being mentioned :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago Santos
We are at the season midpoint, and 5-6 drivers all are strong in the point standings.
I believe this referring to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by hojof1
I have it on video that there was only a yellow out in corner 10 which is very difficult to see when cars are going left and right in front of you and slowing down very quickly half way thru 10. i had two cars directly infront. One of those cars slowed down very quickly went really fast to the left exiting almost on the grass and the other going very quickly right on the exit. So I was more concerned about not hitting either one of those two than looking at a tiny flag out the corner of my eye. I would appreciate if people would look at the whole picture before saying that people are unsafe. I also gave up those two positions that i gained as a result. I am really sorry that if some saw this as dangerous but also don't just barrel into 9 and brake like crazy half way thru 10 it really makes it difficult for the people behind. please slow down gradually and raise your hand when you are slowing down.
I do have a video to show what happened which I could upload if you like!! If there are any problems let's work them out at the track and not do forum racing!!!
Kevin, I agree that if a driver has a problem with another, it should be done at the track.... References are made to situations hopefully not to specific drivers on a forum
But I think the point everyone is trying to make, these situations are not nessessary and drivers should not be attempting the moves they make.
Yes there was a dive bomb into 10 with the double yellow, and yes there was a pass at the end of 1 just as the pace car was coming on track. Car parts WERE flying down the front straight.
As Greg mentioned "Good racing does produce hurt feelings and controversy. It is a good problem to have"
It was fine at the back:ha::ha::ha:I must admit tho,I had no idea the race had restarted,I thought at least another lap(Race3)I got caught sleeping.I got lapped in only one race and fortunatly It was just after corner 10 and I could get out of the way:blueflag:on the front straight.Congrats to Steve and Andrew:thumbsup::checkered:And RICE RACING and AVR:trophy:.
Pointing out concerns in a calm manner without naming names is a non-confrontational way of making all involved think "is he talking about me?". I had no idea who Hojo was talking about. I assumed it was the blue car. Sure beats a heated exchange at the track! If you don't like the tone, ignore it or follow it up privately.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
Standing trackside watching it all happening, I personally thought it was a totally innocent chain reaction deal. The officials watching seem to feel the same. Usually the guy getting run over tends to feel otherwise :D
I believe this one is referring to myself and Noel. We went side by side through turn 8 (I had a half car length). Completing the pass through 9, I was told by Noel that the back of my right rear tire touched the front of his left front tire. I also understood that he did not touch the wall, and didn't even loose a position in the race. We talked it out right away after the race with no hard feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
I was also involved in this one. Near middle-back of the front pack of 9 at that time, I was, like Kevin, especially concerned about the hard racing and cars around me through 9 and 10. I saw the yellow as soon as I came onto the front straight. Cars began slowing down seemingly very quickly, and instead of piling on the brakes I weaved around 2 or 3 cars to avoid contact. As I was slowing down with my arm in the air to indicate that I was slowing down, the car behind me obviously did not see the yellow at all and drove right into the back of me. My exhaust is broken and significant damage to my rear bodywork. I don't blame the following driver and didn't even hunt him down to talk about it after the race, because I knew it was just in the heat of the race and accidental.Quote:
Originally Posted by hojof1
Everything being equal, this was the most exciting weekend of racing that I have ever been involved with, and had a fantastic time racing with the lead group. For the most part, I felt perfectly comfortable racing wheel to wheel with everyone in the group (even the guy who hit me from behind).
Oh, and Andrew, yes I was on the outside of you going into 4 with 2 wheels in the grass, but there was no way I was going DOWN 4 with 2 wheels in the grass! No hard feelings by me, just enjoyed the hard racing!
No lack of controversy! And no lack of strong racing either! I can't remember seeing such a strong leading pack of competitive drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild
We even had a couple of corner marshals speak to us at the trophy presentation about how impressive the racing was in all three of our races. They were likely holding their yellow flags in the ready all race long!
Back to the original post, great racing, great series, great turn-out..
Take a couple of laps from the back of the 9 car train (camera ran out of battery), but if I remember correctly, position 1-6 finished .86 seconds apart.
http://youtu.be/UPnZHagJlcM
It is still pretty concerning, as Shane mentioned, that some cars ran into each other going into turn one after the double yellow came out within view of three flag stations at that point. To be clear I am counting turn 10, the start finish as well as turn one flag station.
As soon as I entered 10 I saw waving yellows, mind you I had no one in front of me to worry about but I was very aware of Michael in mirrors. I was probably 3/4 or slightly less throttle down the front straight. Didn't actually touch my brakes till the entrance of turn one as I noticed the pace car across the wall starting to come down the pit exit however it was a little behind me.
At that point as I stated earlier there were at least three flag stations in view. Passing under yellow is DQ in many regions & should be. Paying attention to flags is part of racing & having situational awareness. Doesn't matter how close the racing is people need to pay attention to flags. What if someone had just spun on the front straight in front of us? Can't say we were too busy avoiding cars through turn 10 at that point & run over someone.
Don't fry Andrew for bringing up concerns that are very valid. Also as Andrew pointed out the crash that happened occured in front of all of us so we should have been ready for a possibly double yellow at any point.
Andrew also mentioned about people ending on the grass, from Noel's video it shows Shane briefly touching the grass as Andrew moved over to avoid another car on his inside. There was still enough room not to go on the grass but only slightly. Three wide doesn't make sense there to me as there is no where to go anyways. Your not going to ride around the outside of turn four & make a pass being the third car wide, you will have to conceed the corner as Shane did.
the last thing i want to see is people getting DQ'd or on probabtion etc.
actually we all did a nice job of getting back into our correct positions shortly thereafter.
also, not seeing the flags is something that happened to me a few years ago and I got lambasted by the clerk that day (deserved so), which was no fun. I gave them my reasons and apologies and trust me they couldnt care less. it's a black and white call for them if they want.
if someone really wanted to complain, they could have went over to the tower and made a stink, and maybe made a few spots in the final order.
in hindisght i wish they would have made the call to go full yellow a lot earlier, say middle of the back stretch before we get up to T8.
anyway, i just wanted to bring a general awareness of it and that's all.
i'm not out to get anyone, that's the stewards job.:ha:
When exiting the track I ALWAYS raise my hand,even when nobody is behind me its a good habit.I have noticed a lot of drivers do not do it,in the situation you front runners are discussing raising your hand would help a lot,seeing flags,adrenalin rushing,cars RIGHT in front of you bunched up..yes! it is understandable missing flags etc,etc,etc Im sure it will happen to everyone at some point its human nature.Look at Hamilton running into the back of Raikonnen when raikonnen stopped at the end of the mock grid for the red light...**** happens..its racing.Peripheral vision is more difficult with all that is happening at speed RIGHT in front of you,but a Raised hand is RIGHT in front of you..it works,I came around corner 10 last year and bumped into the back of a front running car who had problems and was going slow,he didnt raise his hand and i had no idea he was going that slow.Secondly..putting two wheels off track to avoid is Ok..but to pass isnt that a Rule infraction? Just asking.
Sorry Frank, no excuse to miss 3 flagging stations. That is a huge safety issue. Those who do should have dicipline so they start to account for their actions.
We all miss things from time to time, but THREE flagging stations??????
Steve..posting at 5:20AM!!starting early again;)..and its passing THROUGH 10...not Threw 10..I noticed this as I read threw all your posts:D:ha:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR_Shane
I dont think there's any controversy, definitely not trying to start any either on my part. But, yeah Shane couldnt agree with you more about the racing in general.
I agree,I wasnt with you guys to see the situation I dont really understand yet what happened?I was unfortunatley bloody miles behind:(:blueflag:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
That's late actually, spelling has been correct, thanks for the heads up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Stone
Its very healthy to discuss it,thats the great thing about the internet,when I was your ages I just went to see the driver/s at he track and smacked him one,took his tools,kicked his car and made advances on his girlfreind..but that was before Computors.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hojof1
Steve..get back to work and stop posting its 10AM!!or I'll tell your Boss!!!...OH! you are the Boss I forgot:ha::ha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Speaking of spelling, what is a "Computors"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Stone
I got girlfriend wrong too!!!!! Damn!!!you got me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Greg or Shane Anybody or some other expert,Im going to get my car aligned (Laser)I have to try everything I can think of to get better lap times besides my own many errors.What would be a good basic set up to give shop? toe-in,camber front/back..engine wise Im Ok,but set up im hopeless,0 degrees toe-in?or an eighth etc,etc.
Frank...
Guy had posted some specs for Desmond to use.
You can see them here;
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52357
The numbers that Guy has above are pretty close to what you would want. I might put about 1/8" in on the rear. 1/16" in on the front for Mosport, but you would want probably 1/16-1/8" out on the front for Shannonville or Calabogie with them being more "turny". Camber totally varies for the driver...ranges from 5-8 total degrees. I would start in the middle, and change based on feeling of oversteer/understeer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Stone