Swift DB1/3 aluminum radators

[HayesCages]

We're looking at having a lot of 18 custom aluminum radiator cores built and wondering if there's anyone else interested in committing to buy one or more of them. (min. order is 18 pcs.) Payment via check would be expected prior to ordering for obvious reasons.
Price for bare core will be around $100, not including shipping.
Finished rad will be around $350.
These will be a single row of 1" tubes measuring 15.75" wide x 19" tall x 1-1/4" thick with the tubes running vertically.
Finished rads. will include the filler neck (no cap), inlet and outlets in whatever size you want, and a 1/2 NPT bung for the temp sensor.
Thinking we want to order within the next month so let me know if anyone is interested.
Thanks,
Lawrence

[HayesCages]

Cores have been ordered for the run of 10 DB-1/3 radiators. We expect delivery to our shop within the next two weeks at the latest.
Persons wishing to place orders please PM me or send deposit (paypal or check please) of $100 with your contact info to:
Hayes Cages, LLC
PO Box 382
Sagle, ID 83860-0382

More info: http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...swift+radiator

Lawrence

[HayesCages]

We've finished an initial run of 6 radiators but still have 4 cores left.
For anyone interested the price will be $450 each, freight included, in the lower 48. your choice of inlet/outlet configurations.
Email or PM me for details.
After our customer up here runs in July we should see how well the al. cools compared to the old brass ones.
Thanks to those who purchased the first run!
Lawrence

[DaveW]

...
After our customer up here runs in July we should see how well the al. cools compared to the old brass ones....

Sort of off-topic, but the most critical factor in cooling efficiency is transferring the heat from the fins to the air. If the tube/fin area, count, and orientation are good, it really should not matter much what the metal is.

I've had brass radiators that were worse than the aluminum ones they replaced because the fin area was less in the brass ones.

[HayesCages]

Doesn't aluminum conduct heat better than brass translating to better heat transfer to the airflow as well?

[gcoffin]

Yes aluminium will transfer heat better than brass, but only if the design and location ofmthe radiators are identical. Hopefully in addition to the reduction in weight we will also get a reduction in the operating temperatures we are seeing in mid-summer.

[HayesCages]

My case: 400+ HP American V8 with stock brass radiator, three 5/8"rows = 240F on a 95F day. Swap to an aluminum radiator, two, one-inch rows, same size, same location, slightly higher water capacity. 95F day water temp was 210F.

[Steve Demeter]

Did I read it wrong or did the brass have 3 rows each 5/8 wide = 1 7/8

And the aluminum one had 2 rows each 1 inch wide =2 inches.

It stands to reason that the aluminum one would run shlightly cooler, given the wider fin total width.

[HayesCages]

Yes 1/8" thicker, yet nets 30F cooler.
As a percentage I suppose that would be, what, 13% cooler on a 6.5% thicker core? If I'm doing my math correctly, that is.
I'd go for one if it were me.
Hey, I am! We're building two for our Argo as well.

[DaveW]

Doesn't aluminum conduct heat better than brass translating to better heat transfer to the airflow as well?

I think you are correct, but as I tried to say, that is a relatively small portion of the heat transfer equation because air is so inefficient in heat transfer. Therefore, in most cases, the fin/tube etc. configuration and area is much more important than the type of metal the radiator is made from.

[HayesCages]

I guess that's why boats don't over heat; they have a whole body of water to cool them. Quite a large HP to cooling ratio.
Truth be told we haven't ran any numbers on the theoretical HP rating for this size radiator but I'd wouldn't be afraid to rate it at 200. Given that, the air might have to come in straight-on and be evacuated straight out the back with no flow interruption.
I personally have worked on such a car: 1969 Datsun Fairlady with said HP figures and using a Honda Civic radiator. Single row, not even 3/4 the size of these.

[gcoffin]

Ok now I know more about radiators than I want to. Seems the most important aspect of radiator design are the number and character of heat transfer points where the cooling fins are attached to the water passages.

Brass radiators have brass water passages soldered to copper cooling fins. This limits the ability of the copper (which is a better heat transfer than aluminium) to cool simply because it is dependent on the inefficient brass/solder/copper transfer point.

Aluminium cores developed in the 80's in Japan reduced the diameter of the water passages, and increased the number, and by default the efficiency of the transfer points (aluminum to aluminum) so a smaller, cheaper, lighter aluminium core radiator could match or exceed a brass/ copper radiator. Downside is aluminium rads are essentially a disposable part on current production cars. And it is pretty much impossible to find anyone to boil out the rads on my Lotus or my Bug Eye. Upside is the new aluminium rad in the DB-3 looks really cool.

[DaveW]

gcoffin,

Interesting. That makes perfect sense. Thanks,

[ccoffin]

Upside is the new aluminium rad in the DB-3 looks really cool.

I second that. Saw it for the first time yesterday in the car. Looks awesome. Great work Lawrence.

[HayesCages]

We still have 4 cores languishing in boxes awaiting new homes, all tank and misc. parts ready to build to your specs.

[ccoffin]

Verdict is in. Temp didn't go over 190 all weekend on the db3 and it was over 90F for all three thirty minute races. Didn't have any water in the overflow all weekend. Didn't have to refill any water at the rad either. If Lawrence has any left over, I suggest purchasing. These seem to keep the car cool extremely well.

[HayesCages]

3 cores left.
Awaiting feed-back from previous purchasers...

[HayesCages]

Thanks ApexSpeed!

[HayesCages]

There's been additional interest in making another run of radiators. Same old catch though, we need to order 18 units from the core manufacturer...

What I had in mind was asking if they would mix them like last time. (We got 10 Swift sized ones and several that fit our Argo chassis.)

If someone desires something other than the Swift size please let us know and we'll see if we can swing a deal for making some to fit other chassis as well.

Price would be $450 each plus freight.

Thanks,
Lawrence

[marchsv]

Some Mr Hayes fine work

Thanks Lawrence!

[HayesCages]

Thank you Tom!

[HayesCages]

After going back and forth with our supplier they've okayed selling just a few cores at a time to us.
The cores are slightly different though in that they are 18" tall and 18.5" wide necessitating them being cut down (not difficult).
What I'd propose is to order one and see if it fits the need and get back to the interested parties that have contacted us in the recent past.
Pricing would be the same as mentioned above: $450 plus shipping.

[HayesCages]

Taking orders now.
We'll need to know what inlet/outlet sizes and threaded bungs you want and where you want them located.
Please email or PM for details.
Thanks,
Lawrence

[Hartley]

Sent PM. I will take one for a DB1. How long to ship?

[HayesCages]

Didn't get a PM from you.
If you'd like, feel free to email me:
hayescagesllc (at) gmail (dot) com

[HayesCages]

If we had the information required from customer we could have one out the door within a week.