I agree with one of Reid's points. I don't think allowing pro series entrants as qualification for runoffs is a good idea for club racing. This will potentially send numbers in club racing even further south.
The only benifit is possible larger runoff participants, however all the events leading to the runoffs will most likely be hurt which would be a bigger issue.
While Ray is running his car at Summit today, I ran my VD-Honda for the first time yesterday at Nelson Ledges. Our cars have been built in parallel since November when Eric Langbein modified our rear clips within days of each other. I did 40 laps without issue after spending the morning on another project.
I've been chasing this since the 40th FF BP when I saw that DB1-Honda. My car will see some OFFC Toyo events, some ProF1600 events, and some SCCA Nationals this year and in years to come, either with myself, or customers behind the wheel.
The mods to the frame behind the rollbar were done by ELR. Nick Fuhs did water pipe and exhaust welding. The balance was done in-house (Rice Race Prep). Thanks to Tom and Troy at HPD for their help. The VD refurbishment was more of a job than the engine install and the assistance from Dave Clubine at BrittainWest was unbelievable.
Great looking car Greg, Lately we have heard others speaking about the fine work from Eric Langbein. Nick Fuhs handled almost all of the welds and corners on our car, he does some amazing work dosnt he?.
There is more to these conversions than what meets the eye, nice work.
This great thread that Ross DeVoe started seems to have gotten hijacked.
Where on Apex should this discussion move to so we can "stop pissing on his lawn"?
[FONT=Verdana]My Lawn is piss-free, but thanks for the consideration . I just wanted to see what winter projects were in action when I made the original post. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]eospeed is the only dark horse that's been under the radar so far... With a 97 VD? [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]Any who, I like the discussion about the Pro Series as qualify-ers for the Runoffs.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]Having never been to the Runoffs, it seems to me (and please correct me if I am wrong), that the appeal is racing against the top members of your division while being the only class on track. Also, being at the track for a week, as opposed to work.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]In the F1600 Series, that is what you get all season! And to boot, you get it at multiple tracks in 3 days per event! I agree with Mike that combining the Pro series with the Runoffs is a bad idea, but why shouldn't the Pro Series qualify you for the Runoffs? If the only reason is that it would financially weaken regions that is Swedish bologna![/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]The most participation I have ever experienced in the NeDiv was the b.h. Glen Double National (b.h. = before Honda) in 2008 (?) with 8 Formula FORDS. If those 8 Fords weren't there, would the region have gone bankrupt? Absolutely not.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]Just remember when replying to be objective, polite, and relevant. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]Thanks,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Ross[/FONT]
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__________________
"The winner ain't the one with the fastest car, it's the one who refuses to lose." - Dale Earnhardt Sr.
While Ray is running his car at Summit today, I ran my VD-Honda for the first time yesterday at Nelson Ledges. Our cars have been built in parallel since November when Eric Langbein modified our rear clips within days of each other. I did 40 laps without issue after spending the morning on another project.
I've been chasing this since the 40th FF BP when I saw that DB1-Honda. My car will see some OFFC Toyo events, some ProF1600 events, and some SCCA Nationals this year and in years to come, either with myself, or customers behind the wheel.
The mods to the frame behind the rollbar were done by ELR. Nick Fuhs did water pipe and exhaust welding. The balance was done in-house (Rice Race Prep). Thanks to Tom and Troy at HPD for their help. The VD refurbishment was more of a job than the engine install and the assistance from Dave Clubine at BrittainWest was unbelievable.
I agree with one of Reid's points. I don't think allowing pro series entrants as qualification for runoffs is a good idea for club racing. This will potentially send numbers in club racing even further south.
The only benifit is possible larger runoff participants, however all the events leading to the runoffs will most likely be hurt which would be a bigger issue.
While that is a good reason for the SCCA not to allow this, in general it is a terrible reason not to do it. Club racing numbers are "south" for a reason and if the runoffs hope to exist with any credibility at all they should be working to promote the race to the entire spectrum of FF (& FC) competitors. By creating a fortress of requirements around their exclusive event they simply exclude competitors from that event rather than improve turnouts at their other lesser events. For example, I do not run club events, nor do I plan to. However, if I was allowed to go to the runoffs, you bet your ass I would. I'm not though. So in reality they have just lost my participation at their hallmark event, not promoted their lesser ones. In this case, two negatives does not make a positive.
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Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
The Club needs to make National racing important and desirable again.Until they do that the Runoffs will see a gradual decline.This years shorter format may help but it is only a bandaid on the main issue.Make National Club racing more inclusive and make real events not just race weekends.Sorry this is really off the topic.
Beautiful car Greg! Is it still a monoshock? Or did that get the boot with the Kent?
This is not the Bamford RF93. That is back in Michigan.
This was a 4-shock RF97 FC car that sat on the Runoffs pole 12 years ago and has been mostly garage queen in between.
The pods are my own design. Water temp ran from 180-210F depending on adjustment setting.
The current driver is an ol' fat guy, so car is pretty stripped down as a starting point. Various mods and aero additions will get added as time, budget, and weight allow.
__________________ Greg Rice Rice Race Prep
Last edited by problemchild; June 8th, 2012 at 12:10 PM.
While that is a good reason for the SCCA not to allow this, in general it is a terrible reason not to do it. Club racing numbers are "south" for a reason and if the runoffs hope to exist with any credibility at all they should be working to promote the race to the entire spectrum of FF (& FC) competitors. By creating a fortress of requirements around their exclusive event they simply exclude competitors from that event rather than improve turnouts at their other lesser events. For example, I do not run club events, nor do I plan to. However, if I was allowed to go to the runoffs, you bet your ass I would. I'm not though. So in reality they have just lost my participation at their hallmark event, not promoted their lesser ones. In this case, two negatives does not make a positive.
I agree with your thinking as I am sure it would increase the runoffs as there are lots of FF & FC's that would be able to enter. I just see it as a bigger negative on the National events to lower already low participation.
The organizers of the pro series also changed their schedule not to cause issues with the runoffs themselves so they are not trying to get in the way of the event.
I agree with your thinking as I am sure it would increase the runoffs as there are lots of FF & FC's that would be able to enter. I just see it as a bigger negative on the National events to lower already low participation.
The organizers of the pro series also changed their schedule not to cause issues with the runoffs themselves so they are not trying to get in the way of the event.
I think the truth is that car counts are so low at nationals that they aren't gaining customers by forcing them to run nationals to make the RunOffs. Who cares if a national loses 2 of its 4 FF's?
15 FC's and 22 FF's finished in last years RunOffs. Divided across the various regions, how do these classes remain to exist outside the Pro series? If anything, the pro series should be rewarded by giving these competitors access to the runoffs. The SCCA and ProSCCA act like they are playing for different teams.
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Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
The above concerns about National participation numbers are all valid, but the F1600 series is giving the class everything it needs. Unfortunately, this is at the cost of National entries.
How about allowing 1, or even 2, F1600 series races to count as an out of division race (with no points being awarded) towards the Runoffs requirement. The series has made the effort not schedule any events too close to the Runoffs in response to the problem that existed last year. This small allowance might just help both sides with some crossover entries for both sides and boost the Runoff entry.
Just my 2 cents.
Did any of you guys notice that Kautz has another Honda?
Mark
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1990 Van Diemen, the Racing Machine, CM AutoX, WRX(retired)
You can try to make a street car into an autocrosser or you can do a lot less work and make a race car into a great autocrosser
Engine, Cell, LD200, Plumbing, Data, Steering, Dual shock Conversion, A-Arms, Uprights, Brakes, Body Panels and nose all done.
Still to do: Hang the body properly (after Kevlar bonding), assemble left side suspension, make up one halfshaft, mold the seat, front crush box, puke tank, start the engine, alignment and first setup, front ARB, Decals, mirrors, Head bolster thingy, Homologation paperwork for non-Pro races. I now think August looks do-able. Maybe Pocono?
Maybe Rand or Frog could send me the series decal assortment and motivate me a bit more??
Who needs decals! Bring it to the track and find a bored kid in the paddock!
Not much of the original left. Frame around the driver and the side body panels are moslty original, as are the brakes and uprights. Switched to the Ford oil tank, since the renault one was too weird. the rest is my creation. Suspension was widened substantially. See how much I had to add to the pushrod (a mockup part, not the final).
Dual shock in the front with custom Edge Engineering T-Steering Rack, (thanks to Gary Hickman). So front is my creation except for the pedals and frame tubes to which I added lower rails to comply with FF FC rules
Not much of the original left. Frame around the driver and the side body panels are moslty original, as are the brakes and uprights. Switched to the Ford oil tank, since the renault one was too weird. the rest is my creation. Suspension was widened substantially. See how much I had to add to the pushrod (a mockup part, not the final).
Dual shock in the front with custom Edge Engineering T-Steering Rack, (thanks to Gary Hickman). So front is my creation except for the pedals and frame tubes to which I added lower rails to comply with FF FC rules
Steve,
Is this the car that you started to convert to FB?
The GSXR engine I bought from you was a good one; I ran it all last year.
Engine, Cell, LD200, Plumbing, Data, Steering, Dual shock Conversion, A-Arms, Uprights, Brakes, Body Panels and nose all done.
Still to do: Hang the body properly (after Kevlar bonding), assemble left side suspension, make up one halfshaft, mold the seat, front crush box, puke tank, start the engine, alignment and first setup, front ARB, Decals, mirrors, Head bolster thingy, Homologation paperwork for non-Pro races. I now think August looks do-able. Maybe Pocono?
Maybe Rand or Frog could send me the series decal assortment and motivate me a bit more??
Who needs decals! Bring it to the track and find a bored kid in the paddock!
Good Show Roux! I'll get you a pallett of Redbull and it'll certainly be done before Pocono!
__________________
"The winner ain't the one with the fastest car, it's the one who refuses to lose." - Dale Earnhardt Sr.
I still have the rear chassis 'spacer' and the LD200 converted to chain drive that I made for the GSXR1000 version of this . I am glad the FB engine ran all of last year for you with no issues. Is it still in the car? Or did you put it into the spares box and put a fresh unit in your FB??
The FF series got me hooked and I think the wide track Fit version of this beast will be an upgrade from the old Royale and the home built Kents. How embarrassing if it is Slower!!
The joke I made this weekend at Summit Point that we were going to "induce labor" and finally give birth to my new car. Well, it ran, it was not well set up and it has issues. It was a monumental thrash and in retrospect I should have waited another month to launch it. More later once I fugure out what I did wrong on the engine install.
. I just wanted to see what winter projects were in action when I made the original post. [/FONT]
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