Joel Lipperini - Suspended from SCCA Racing (SOMs pull license)

[F.Y.P.E.]

Sorry to report that not much has changed since the early 70s. Why do you think they call themselves "Stupids"? Affectionately, of course. I was once heard to say at WGI: "When the officials start officiating, WATCH OUT". Leave it to some official to believe that walking can be more dangerous than driving a racer at (apparent) high speed. Okay, that's oversimplified. My take: Get some perspective, consider rules and insurance issues, and try not to personalize (ref: testosterone) everything that happens.
I appreciate that Stewarding is an unpaid an thankless job. But most SCCA racers are good citizens, and while perambulating their synapses fire pretty regularly. Not a group that needs too much mothering.
Riddle me the Sphinx: Is that a three-count felony?
Next question: "So, Joel... What are you in for?" Ask Arlo.... Littering??

[rmccown]

Careful Roland - you just haven't been protested on that yet! Is it breathing that everone has customarily done, and has been allowed in the past, and now you are excessively breathing????

Careful, or we'll all end up with an undersized restrictor.

[Jtovo]

Which is? Are we "where we are at" because of the supps?

I had agreed to let this drop at the request of those involved -
however, the track reverts to the track owners control except for the operational hours. It does not need to be in the supps if there are local track rules. Its their property - I hate to bring up other tracks but there are probably half of them we run on that won't let you out there after hours. What is so difficult to understand about that. Thats why we are where we are!!!!

"This need never have been an issue if you had just stopped arguing!!!! Don't get me wrong, Stewards drive me nuts sometimes and I'm on the BOD but sometimes its better to bite your lip and use other avenues to get what you want. Honey v vinegar?

Phil"

Or are we where we are at because Joel argued his point? 2 different stories from you, Phil.

[Larry]

First, I'm a former national chief steward. As such, I spent 90% of my time dealing with the same 10% of the competitors.
Second, I've had dealings with Joel Liperini, which I remember.
Third, I've always made it a rule to never argue with anyone who works security, because they are not paid to think, but to enforce whatever their boss tells them to enforce.
Fourth, yes, there are some stewards who aren't very good, but there are more that are damned good. Your probability of getting a good one is high (higher than the State of Arizona getting a good federal judge)

So it seems likely to me that Liperini was his typical self when dealing with a $10/hour guard, who responded in kind. Actually, it may have been the $10/hour guard who started yelling first--I don't know. I do know it was a "no win" situation for Liperini, and he should have realized it. It was then escalated to the stewards, who made their own determination. I don't know the details of the court action, but I do know the entire incident could have easily been avoided. Superficially the penalty seems extreme, but I'm 100% certain that we aren't being apprised of all of the details.

The SCCA has an extremely well-developed "process" for handling stewards actions, protests and appeals. Any seeming "arbitrary" actions can be elevated to the COA, which often finds in favor of the driver. After more than 10 years as a steward (and more as a driver), I find the system is not perfect, but mostly on target. Furthermore, the 90% of drivers that never have to deal with stewards shouldn't get swayed by biased reports from a few frequent miscreants.

IF you are ever insulted by a steward at the Saturday night bash, protest him on the basis of "unsportsmanlike conduct!" If you've got specific incidents, report them to the Division Exec Steward.

Larry Oliver

[RussMcB]

Thanks, Larry. I keep thinking we haven't seen anything official yet. IMO, it's silly for (some) people to think the penalty was for "walking the track".

[Jonathan Hirst]

Well said Larry.

To continue the debate that Joel was suspended for walking on the track is akin to arguing that a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil caused a tornado in Kansas. Other than being at opposite ends of a common chain of events - the two are no longer related.

I am a vigilant supporter of defending onself but you have to recognize when you are in a hole and to stop digging before it becomes your grave.

Sure the no walking on the track wasn't published - I agree it is should be because it is allowed at many other tracks. Joel learned of the rule without yelling or confrontation the first night he went out there. If there were any further questions regarding the rule, then he should have been taken up with the Track - not the security guard or club renting it during the day.


Jonathan

[Shelly Sadwin]

I tried the diplomatic approach with the scca about an abusive chief steward. I wrote a letter to the club reporting an on going pattern of abusive behavior from said steward. To date there has been no response and i've only been waiting over a year.

[jlipper]

Cool -
I had a very constructive call today with SCCA regarding walking the track at Road America. We are working on a solution. The best fit for a track walk may be a two part deal (half one day, half a second day). The best fit looks to make it part of the "Mentor Program" which takes place at the Runoffs. As an aside - its a great program and I encourage new drivers to signup for it and learn from others who know the pitfalls of the track and the runoffs.

A number of great ideas and debates have come from this thread and other threads on this topic. I wish to thank everybody that has contributed in a positive manner. I would also like to thank those that have commented in a positive manner but may not have agreed with what I did. In the end, I promised that this would never happen again to another driver -and I hope my actions and suspension will help that happen.

My best wishes to all of you. I write this as we drive to the BeaveRun national. My revised suspension has expired and I am now on a 60 day probation. With a good showing at BeaveRun I should be in good shape for the Divisional Championship, Super Sweeps possibility and the Runoffs.

Now the other part......

Not Cool - I take offense to what Larry Oliver and other Stewards have posted. Just because in the past I have not agreed with your way of thinking or your position on a topic - you clearly hold it against a driver FOREVER.

Look at my record - PERIOD. Until what I list below, I have never had points on my license, I have never had an action written up against me, have never been on probation nor have I ever been abusive to a Steward, Registrar or Volunteer - They are Facts - PERIOD, research it and prove me wrong.

My record now: In 2009 I was given a DQ and points for a fuel cap check engine light code (a Showroom Stock rule thing) - 4 automatic points. And now 6 points for a "walking the track violation". That's it....period.

Now I see Larry Oliver and others seem to find it necessary to drag a person's name through the mud - for what? What point are you trying to make? Do you get pleasure from abusing others? I have offered full disclosure regarding this scenerio at Road America. Agreeing to a lie detector test, offering copies of testimony given, providing the taped recording, etc. (There is nothing more to the story- no drinking, fist fights, etc. My side of the story backed up by 3 other witnesses).

Larry - you demonstrate what the problem is here - get some authority and you abuse it. A person disagrees, offers a debate over a situation or asks for clarification and you brand them a trouble maker forever. Then followup with an abuse of power to show that a steward has a bigger stick than the driver. You should be ashamed of what you posted.

I fight for rule changes I think are worth fighting for. I have and will continue to go to the mat for a fellow driver (new or old) that I feel is wronged. I will speak out when no other driver has the guts to standup for themselves. I push to get results - we had safety items changed forever (the manufacturer's tags sewn on driver gloves and balaclavas are now on the sewn on the outside because of near fatal burns I received back in 1997 in a car fire). We pushed and had fuel rules changed based on a questionable disqualification. In the end it is a member driven Club and every member should be willing to fight for what they believe is the correct without the fear of being branded.

Now does my "way" of dealing with things and people or my approach bite me in the butt sometimes - YES...but that's what makes each of us different - NOT WRONG. I never claimed to be the most diplomatic person when getting issues resolved - hell I'm half Italian and half German!!! But please remember - I have never complained, criticized or asked for any sort of rule change or procedure without providing a viable solution first during the process.

I get disappointed with the SCCA but continue to support the club whenever I can (donate to worker funds, volunteer time and volunteer my company's time on special design projects).

Larry and the rest of the "personal bashers" here - you have my email, telephone number or you can PM me. Feel free to explain yourself in any arena you choose. Provide actual sustainable facts as to your "prior dealings" with me that irritated you so much to brand me a trouble maker for life. I'll say it again - You should be ashamed of what you posted.

Now back to the Cool - thanks for a healthy debate over this situation... feel free to stop by our paddock space and chat whenever you are at the same race as us - its an open invitation.

Best Regards to all - Joel Lipperini

[TED K.]

WELL SAID!!!!


Ted Klaus

[M.Sauce]

Joel- I found the situation with bad Stewards who abuse their powers,workers and competitors as well very much a problem in my Division.The issue was resolved after I got elected Director.I appointed the right Executive Steward and made sure we did not assign the bad Stewards anymore.The problem was fixed in less than 3 months.The rebuilding takes much longer.I believe the Stewards program still has some bad Stewards that enjoy the power trip.But it is now the exception and not the rule.The Executive Steward of your Division can fix almost all the problems.If he/she is part of the problem your issues and many others will never get fixed.I understand your frustration I had my times thrown out at the Runoffs at Mid Ohio for a safety issue with my car.The Chief Steward had stated we would not loose any times in qualifying for a safety issue.But it happened to me and I did not protest it. I made the changes and took my lumps.I believe the only reason that happened was because I was a Director and not one of them(Stewards).Had I been a Steward I am sure they would have dealt with me differently.It was embarrassing to me that the club still had this kind of vendictive sort of mind set with a tech Steward.Some more cleansing and now it is better but not perfect.It will never be perfect because we are dealing with humans and we all have our fears,faults and opinions.I am glad that the court reduced your penalty.I believe as many others do it was the correct thing to do.

[Larry]

"I've never had an action written up against me."
----------------------------------------------------
It took me 2 minutes to find the following:

Lipperini vs. SOM
Finding of the Court of Appeals
FasTrack Sept 2005 (upholding the SOM)


Larry Oliver

[Tim FF19]

[FONT=BookmanOldStyle-Bold][FONT=BookmanOldStyle-Bold]

http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastra...6-fastrack.pdf

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[jlipper]

Am I on another planet?
This is the best that you can find???
Something I actually mention in my post above regarding fuel?

So let me get this straight everybody...
Am I reading this correct?
I had a fuel compliance issue 5 years ago....filed an appeal to defend my position and lost my appeal. I said nothing against the appeal and walked away with the decision. Then we lobbied to get the rule changed so it wouldn't happen to another SS or Touring class driver. I didn't complain, nor jump up and down about the court's decision.

This marks me as a trouble maker and the bad 10% of SCCA members that cause all the problems in the SCCA??? This is your basis for defaming me publicly on this forum? Your comments should have you ejected and suspended from the club for unsportsmanlike conduct. How dare you defame somebody publicly with no basis.

You appear to be one of the people that make up the 10% of bad club members.
I think it is fairly obvious who has the wrong attitude here about the us vs. them issue.

And as a note on the 2005 issue.... as posted above, "We pushed and had fuel rules changed based on a questionable disqualification."....yes - I was DQ'd and we pushed the club to change the fuel rules for Showroom Stock & Touring class cars. The rule was contradictory and it took a DQ to get enough attention drawn to the issue to get it changed. The club saw the problem and changed the rule. That is causing a problem - its solving one and making our club a better place to play.

Let me know what other earth shattering information you come up with...we will all be waiting.....

or you can just say here publicly:

I'm sorry Joel, I may have been misinformed. I will consider your invitation and welcome the opportunity to spend some time with you at a National race.Maybe my opinion of you was not well-founded.

We shall see.......Joel

PS - Had a great first weekend back from my suspension...a National Win, Pole Position, Flag to Flag Victory and Smashed the TRACK RECORD in my old Honda while the Acura is being prepped for the Runoffs....off to Pocono next!

[dc]

Ok guys, let's ease up on the stone trowing at this point. The issue has been resolved and everyone can go back to racing now.

I don't think any more needs to be said on this subject.

Joel, glad things worked out for you. Good luck at the RunOffs, and welcome to the forums here. Wish it could have been under better circumstances.




doug