Fatality at NASA Mid-Ohio event

[Keith Carter]

John Engle was involved in some sort of accident at the NASA event at Mid-O. Does anyone have any information as to what it was caused by? The short article states an accident of some sort. It always saddens me to hear of such news happening to a club racing enthusiast, but I don't think I've recently heard of a fatality from an accident. Usually anything like this is a heart attack on the track or something. Our thoughts go out to his family.

http://www.nasamidwest.com/

[cooleyjb]

Not sure which turn it was in but the only constant thing I've heard is that there was a car that went off and left some fluids on the track. John lost control going over the fluids and hit the other car that was parked off the course.

Lots of stories seem to be floating around though.

[f500racer]

Information from a worker at the evnt. It seems a porsche dropped a lot of fluid going into the turn at the back straight and parked it in the gravel. There was a yellow at the corner. Unfortunately, the fluid caused Mr. Engle to lose control and go off at the end of the straight and he impacted the parked car at well over a 100 mph. No fault of anyone, just a bad combination of circumstances.

I have done the same thing there, losing my brakes and impacting a parked fv on the gearbox. Thankfully, I imapcted at my rear axle sideways. The exhaust pipe went through my wheel, about two feet from where my head sat.

JNS

[Shep]

No idea as to content validity, but here's a thread on the Rennlinst forum:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...24#post4475324

Rest in peace John. Sincere condolences to family and friends.

[Keith Carter]

Thanks for the info all. I just wanted to let people know that I wasn't seeking if anyone was to blame for the accident as I don't want this to turn into any kind of legal issue. Out of my own curiosity I was wondering if it was an accident caused by racing contact or some other health reason. I've been informed that public statements can be reasons for being sucked into a lawsuit for depositions and such so we can leave this where it is.

[andyllc]

Does anyone know if this was the same John Engel that was also a driving instructor? If so he was my instructor at Skippy way back and then I also instructed along side him later on in my career. Very sad.

[Mark H]

Being a part time racer, as it seems that this good guy was and you are too Doug, we all feel the pain from something like this. I saw nothing wrong with what you said or for that matter what this great driver did racing his car. I said great driver...when a guy races for the love and not money that is a great thing. OR puts up a web site like this for us part-time racers out of his own pocket...thats great too.
Everytime a racer goes out on the track there is risk, we have great safety precautions in place in these modern times, almost lulling us into thinking that "this thing" we do is like playing football in the park on Sun. afternoon. Well its just too bad one of us has too suffer (and his family/friends) doing what he loves?
In fact in the circles I run in this subject is taboo, none of us want to talk about it, outsiders want all the details, and I think the questions asked by our Moderator were asked only out of conscern and were backed with only good intentions.
Reading from the NASA site its just a real shame John Engle was lost. He must have been a great racer being talked about on a site that isen't related to his type of car or club he raced with.
I will pray for him, his family and friends. This is a sad thing...doing what you love and not making it home. God bless him and his family.

[jcoyoung]

Scotty B wrote the following post at 08-22-2007 10:52 PM: In order to squelch rumors and nonsense I will post my account as I witnessed the incident from the hill at Madness
The 944 driver lost some type of mechanicla device and I do not buy for a moment there was oil down as there was at least 3 laps of full tilt green flag racing with probably 50 cars on track after he had pulled off drivers left along side the wall at T7 right at the geometric apex of the "outside" of T7 by china beach and stopped
Many cars came down into the braking zone with nary a wiggle until this red bimmer came flying in like he had done a 5-2 downshift with the rear tires locked up and spinning like a top (no smoke off the front) and I would have estimated his speed at 120 or so
He spun 360* and another 90* and impacted his drivers door square on the 944's rear bumper in a sort of self induced t-bone at I would guess 100 plus
He looked as though he scrubbed -0- speed entering the braking zone to me
The 944 should have been in a safe zone to me as it was WAY up against the wall drivers left and in between china beach and the wall so that ought to tell you how far down he was, basically past the end of the back stretch...
He was in a way safer place than where that kids car got totaled by Natha's car in 05
After watching the I thought at the time it would not be survivable and comented as such to a couple guys I was standing by watching with... The impact was big...
The guy in the 944 had remained in his car the whole time and was healthy after the incident and I saw him later...
It took them like 45 minutes to get the driver out of the bimmer I think his legs were pinned and the car was in a bananna shape
I was shocked to see the driver was alert and talking as they worked to get him out but they were bagging him as they were working to get him out, not a good sign...
It was a bad deal, think about your seats, you cages and the rest of your safety gear guys... Don't know what could have saved him, this was huge but the best safety gear is never a bad investment...
~s

[cooleyjb]

Here is what seems to be an official yet unofficial post of what happened found on NASAforums. Discrepancies from previous info. The 3 laps didn't happen accoriding to T&S etc.

Crosspost from NASA Forums...




Do to all the miss information about this I have the ok to post this from the people who mattered most.

I have done my best to correct posts of miss information from around the web. If you know of something I have not found please ask them to edit the post or send me a link and I will.

NASA is the Best, this is the only board that has stay away from pushing for details true or not...... Thanks

Be safe,
Paul Hamm

Description of events-

Larry Collins driving a 944 lost his motor at the kink or about half way down the back straight. Larry went to drivers left as his car was filling with smoke and with limited visibility he felt that there where faster cars on the inside passing him. He went into the wet grass and slowed to a stop beyond the end of the straight. The 944 was in or next to china beach to the far left.

As John Engle in his M3 made his way around the track the starters flag station on the back straight was showing the debris flag, and the next station at the end of the straight was showing a yellow flag. The station at the top of the hill was clear.

John was around 10 sec. in front of the 944 when the engine let go, so it was around a 1:20 later he was making his way down the back straight. As John entered the area he went thought the oil and started to spin. The two cars came together 1:34 sec after the 944 came to a stop, right corner of the 944 to the left A pillar and door area of the M3. The cage on the M3 was pushed in enough that it had trapped John’s legs so that when he tried to get out he could not. The cage was cut away and John could move his feet as he was on his way to the hospital.

At the hospital it was discovered that John was bleeding internally some where in the upper chest cavity from the rate of deceleration at impact.

Larry hurt a muscle in his leg along and has a sore neck but will be fine.