Why are you not racing your FM

[Darryl Wills]

I have noticed a drop in participation in the class in the last few years. I am posting a poll to see if any data can extracted to help explain this trend and possibly reverse it. Our team has looked at all of the other classes for future involvement in the case of FM going into the tank and have concluded that this is the best class offered by SCCA. In terms of fun, cost, safety, parts availability, manufacture support, driver challenge and the people involved FM has no equal. I would like to know why you are not racing your FM or why did you sell your FM or what is your least favorite thing about the FM.

[kflyer]

I think a lot of racers won't go FM because they don't look modern. Like that should matter to the guy flyin behind the wheel. Another thing that cracks me up is one will spend $60k on a car they can't afford to put tires on. Why not buy an FM for $20k and race for 3 years on the remaining $40k?

[sprocketmensch]

But there's just not enough competition in the NE. Sadly it is for sale.

[dalz]

I can answer why I'm not racing my FM MORE...

Love the high-profile events...well, event--the June Sprints. I'm looking foward to the next two Runoffs too, thanks to their fresh locations. But the typical Majors weekend is real tough to justify the cost. To go to an obscure club track, to be lumped in with 5 or 6 or 8 other classes stumbling over each other the whole time, yeah it's worth something, but it's not worth what Jas has to charge me. Sorry, a painfully prefab podium ceremony does not do much to make it prestigious. I do the generic Majors to make the Runoffs, as cheaply as we can. Come 2016, I will probably not do them. I will pay Jas through the nose for a killer June Sprints seat, maybe the three or four days I will be in a race car all year.

Yes I know how good I had it when these cars were the Pro Series, and I knew I'd never be racing with that level of glamour for the price again.

[480rider]

Just spent a bunch on my car to refresh for the season, and "make it mine," including new paint, seat pour, etc. I love the car, the way it drives, the fun factor, the cost (relatively low) to run, and the great support, BUT:

1. SCCA dropped its only event from my local track this season;
2. Locally, I'm the ONLY FM running consistently, and it gets boring just doing glorified test days during the NASA weekends;
3. I'd like to travel, but the difference in cost is a bit of a struggle -- about $500 for a local weekend, v. $3k+ for an away weekend;
4. That said, I'm prepared to travel, but can't seem to get SCCA to give me a race license. (I have completed over 50 races in the last four seasons under other sanctioning bodies, and have even done 5 SCCA races, but the region still won't even respond to my request for a waiver. To say I'm confused would be an understatement.) That leaves out SCCA races.
5. Most of the FCC races conflict with my schedule (I take full responsibility for that), so even though I can travel to them, and can do so without that pesky SCCA license (I have a current NASA license), it will be difficult to do so this season.

Other than those small problems, I'm all in!

[Darryl Wills]

Thanks for the feedback and keep'em coming. We can only formulate solutions after the issue is fully understood. This understanding is most easily obtained through compiling data and analysis. I am not looking for answers right now but would like to understand the problem and put thought into what would bring people to the track.

[Dakar318]

My FM is old, and after the joint failures posted through out here i have deemed it unsafe and a big liability (other guys nicer FMs) to race wheel to wheel in it.

also its going to need a motor, i am down about 30 hp. but it still runs great, and i have not even priced the cost of the rebuild and sealing yet. but i know it will be more expensive than the motor i had build for my 400+ hp 3rd gen Rx7.

overall i love the FM, i like the feel of driving it, i like the simplified mechanics and suspension, i like the small adjustments to be made. the sealed engine is good and bad. but mostly good.

the only other class i would swap to would be F600, just because of the sport bike motors and sequential trans that go along with them. but i always see those guys working on them between sessions.

[Darryl Wills]

The lower outer heims are the most common ones that fail. I get about 10 race weekends out of those and about 20 out of the rest of them. The front upper heim generally gets replaced when I detect play in the joint. This varies with how rough the tracks are.

I am on my 4th season on the same motor. Drummonds charges a premium for engine rebuilds but he spends time to make sure that the motors are almost equal and the longevity speaks for itself. In the world of race engines I find the FM to be a bargain.

BTW, I played the 600cc motor game before and when that class starts to get competitive they will find out why mini sprint teams have multiple engines int the trailers at all times. Love the sound of them hate changing engines at the track.

[Tom Hope]

Ran one in 2012 and loved it but no cars in So CA. Went back to FC where we have the Pacific F2000 to run in. I am spending 3X the money but we have a good group of fast FC cars.

[Agitator]

I don't own a FM, but there are certainly some very nice competitive cars available out there for a good price. It may be next year before I get back in a car after a long hiatus. I've got a perfectly good FV in the garage, but the cost to run one competitively is about the same as a Mazda after the initial investment. Would love to get into something with wings...but as mentioned before, the Mazda looks dated. I know that should be no reason to not enjoy getting in a car, but I have always loved the aesthetics of a car. If I bought one, I'd be spending a lot of time in the garage just looking at it...I'd like her to be a little more sexy. Of course, it makes absolutely no sense to update the bodywork because it would just be another reason someone wouldn't drag their car after a driving break.

I raced Spec Racers back when they were Sports Renaults. To me, they are still a fairly attractive car, but been there, done that. I'd like more horsepower, a wider contact patch, and a bling factor (without the blingy price!). If I just wanted to go faster in a good looking car, it would be hard to beat an early 90's VD F2000...but it wouldn't be competitive. The Mazda has a bunch going for it, and I would probably get over the dated look quickly. Just a perspective from a middle aged guy looking at a different class.

[Darryl Wills]

As more data accumulates and other drivers calling me direct I am starting to get an idea of why folks are leaving, have left or decided against joining the class.

Please keep'em coming. I will post my analysis of the comments when the poll closes.

[Darryl Wills]

Agitator,
Come by our pits at Road Atlanta this weekend and I would be glad to answer any questions you have on the FM.

That invitation is open to anyone...Just after debating the pros and cons of silicone breasts, FMs are one of my favorite topics.

[Dwayne Anderson]

Nice drive in Texas Congrats. Dwayne

[David Kaiser]

Darryl,

Several reasons why I am not racing my FM.

1. My FM is now a FS. I have the 4-piston wilwood calipers and 10.5 inch rotors and my motor is ported to about 230HP. So I can't run spec and would not be competitive in FS.

2. I would likely not be competitive racing.

3. I had a kidney transplant two years ago and probably shouldn't be taking additional risk. Driving track days is risk enough, but racing takes it to a whole other level. Kidney's don't come in easy!

4. Costs

5. Not enough free time/time to travel, etc.

Feel free to PM may if you want to discuss more. I would be happy to talk.

David

[Darryl Wills]

David,
Sounds like you are lucky to be driving at all. Thanks for the feedback..Your reason for not racing your FM stands by itself...Love the mods though...Maybe that is a direction to take the FM...I am drooling at the thought...LOL

[sprocketmensch]

Dave,
So glad to hear you're doing well. Hope to see you at Monticello one of these days. You do have the best reasons.
Doug

[David Kaiser]

Thanks Darryl and Doug.

Frankly, I am lucky to be alive!

But, as Doug points out, I have all the right reasons to be in a race car!

Carpe Diem!

Darryl,

The port is amazing. Aside from needing 100 octane, there is little drawback (although I imagine the engine will not last as long before refreshes). It has a strong power curve all the way through - not exactly a punch in the stomach like I hear the pro Fm's are.

The brakes are phenomenal. Strong and easy to modulate.

At Monticello Motor Club - my home track - The car runs a 2:19 on old tires. A standard FM runs a 2:24 with the same driver and a PRO FM runs a 2:12. MMC is a 3.6 mile track with 18 corners.

David

[Turbowerks9]

To those of you that feel somewhat shy of any racing due to costs. I will say that if you can't afford to run F500, FV or FF then you need to stay with racing but join as a volunteer and work a corner. I prefer FF but it too seems to be a bit thin at times.

[dougnelson]

Racing is seeing a decline in race car participation in the majority of clubs and classes across the country. Disposable income, time available, travel, entry costs, lack of competition all contribute to a steady decline.

How to keep the current drivers competing while recruiting new drivers or drivers who wish to move up to a purpose built open wheel race car, is the challenge.

The SCCA Majors program has been a welcome improvement to control the number of races held per year, requiring approval to hold a Majors, while increasing the participation at each event.

2014 began the first year of Majors only racing, eliminating the National racing program. The other path to the runoffs has been the regional/divisional program which could disappear in many regions, the fallout.

Why we chose the FM as our open wheel cars. Cost effective, spec class with all cars of the same make, easy to work on and set up, limited setting reducing spares required, many parts universal.

In response to the concern of hime joint failure or any other part failure. All parts wear out, requiring change before failure. Sharing information regarding inspection and or replacing parts is always greatly appreciated. It is much cheaper and safer to replace a part before it fails.

There is a replacement available for the smaller hime joint which has been and is currently in use. SCCA has been contacted for interpretation as to legality. Any part improving safety should always be approved, without question, when no competitive advantage is obtained in the process.

This my first full season of racing in FM, my 2 team mates, their first season in an open wheel car, a challenge for both of them, learning to shift smoothly, learning how fast you can take a turn with these light cars with wings and the fact they are much faster than the majority of closed wheel cars at a fraction of the cost.

We are participating in the Western Conference with one race to go in Portland, where none of us has raced before. Our FM races have had as little as 4 and as many as 15 cars. We carry the majority of FM spare parts, many acquired when we purchased our 5 cars. Our first car is used for our driving school, our fifth car was purchased for its many parts, as a second school car and as a backup car for the runoffs.

We have learned our competitors will and have helped us. When we needed to install and replace transmission parts or any other questions or help the 3 FM drivers I asked all offered to help. We have provided mufflers, supertrapps and other parts to our competitors as we want everyone to be able to race.

Over this past year we have gained new friends while adding to the FM class. The mixed open wheel classes are another challenge to surviving a weekend. This would not be an issue with enough cars competing in FM.

If you are not driving your FM get it out and drive it or sell it.

Anyone can learn how to work on their car performing all nut and bolt inspections and set up. Gear changes and inspections I have learned to do as I did many years ago when I ran FF when we averaged 40 cars per race.

If you want excellent competition, in equal, affordable cars, race an FM.

If you want an updated car with the latest and greatest, soon to be outdated, by all means buy it. Priced carbon fiber parts lately? Rebuilds for the motorcycle engines? Hours between rebuilds?

We are having too much fun learning these classics, how to go faster and making new friends. FM is growing on the West Coast.

[LarryWinkelman]

I last raced my FM in 1998. It was getting old and tired then (original motor, 1988 car, approximately), and I had pretty much already decided to do a ground-up over the winter. Then I crashed and basically destroyed the complete front suspension and pulled the rear susp radius rod forward attachment bolts out of the frame. It was a pretty decent hit, into concrete, on both sides. Too bad on-board video then isn't what it is now! So, I had some work to do... then my wife got pregnant with twins.

Needless to say, time and money both got tight, but for many years I still planned to fix the car and go racing. A few years ago, when I started to get serious about racing again, I starting pricing the cost of all the repairs and updates my car needed, including engine rebuild, and realized I could never get the cost back were I to try to sell it. Maybe if I did all the work (except for engine and chassis welding) myself at $0 per hour, I could break even. Additionally, by this point, car counts were already falling. Most regionals in GLDiv and CenDiv had 0-4 cars, and nationals maybe 2-6. This trend has continued, obviously.

At the same time, I drove a SRF a few times, and what I found was that a) I was competitive, b) there were always cars to race with, c) there was at-track support and d) there is a performance upgrade coming (new motor). Additionally, I can run enduros and some track/test days the open cars can't. I ended up buying a SRF for about what the FM would have cost to fix, and plan to race that for the forseeable future. Running costs appear to be similar. There were 35 SRFs at the Mid-Ohio Major, 1 FM. I think 38 SRFs at the June Sprints, 2 FM. I will be running mostly regionals this year, probably mostly Majors next year. The cars are easy to drive, but hard to drive fast. Yeah, they don't have the cool factor of an FM or any other wings-n-things car... but I'm not looking to impress anyone!

Part of me would still like to fix the FM and race it, but I have no immediate plans to do so. I have also though of getting a proper body & floor kit (not the MSR) and going P2 with it. Of course, that probably increases my cost by 50% to get it on track, but the class has decent numbers and it would allow me some flexibility to tinker with things. Maybe that's all a dream, now that I own an SRF. The other option is to sell it for whatever I can get, and clear out the garage. If anyone wants a parts car or a project, let me know!

[automalone]

Because my car hasn't arrived yet
I've purchased one from up north, but it won't make the trek for a couple weeks. Can't wait to get started in this thing! Hoping to be ready by december.

[porsche.steve]

I've wanted one since I did the Russell schools and a few track days at Laguna Seca in 1994. At the time a car was $38k and add a trailer and spares and it was out of my reach. Now cars have dropped to 18-20k with spares, mine arrives on Sept 15. Old to some, new to me.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

. Now cars have dropped to 18-20k with spares, mine arrives on Sept 15. Old to some, new to me.

Very cool. Patience, right?

What is you home track?

[porsche.steve]

Laguna, it's an hour south.

[Darryl Wills]

Steve, enjoy your new car. Come by the trailer at the Runoffs and visit. Feel free to bring a notebook and ask us any questions..setup, maintenance or whatever.

That invitation extends to anyone...

I have had good response from this survey and have a pretty good idea why people are not racing their current FM or have moved on. I will draft a summation and post it sometime in the future for further input and debate. Considering the declining participation numbers, I feel this is a good exercise.

[Coochas]

This thread looks like a good place for me to introduce myself.

This is my first year driving a FM which I bought from Bruce Lawrence. I'm really enjoying learning the car and have so far driven it at Road Atlanta, VIR, Monticello and WGI. I'm a track rat with about 200 days but have not done much racing other than some Spec Atom races and "club" races at Monticello.

I've decided to pursue my SCCA license and will be at the WGI event in October. I realize there will not be much of a FM field there but it's a very comfortable track for me and I think a good place to cut my teeth.

So,....put me down as someone who IS going to race their FM!

Perhaps I'll see some of you there.

[sflaten]

I have been racing the FM in the Minnesota/Iowa area for a few years with SCCA. My home track it BIR (Brainerd, MN). I have been the only guy up here with the FM and been competing against the fc, fe, guys. The reduced numbers in the classes have lead to FC, FE, FM, FF, F500, CSR DSR, in one class. Good learning for me to chase the faster guys. I feel that I am missing connection to the FM class due to low numbers and I would like, to learn how to drive it faster, and set up better. I feel my learning curve is just a bit longer being a solo in the area.

Due to schedules, costs and time I can take off the job it limits my ability to travel to the further away races. Road America or Blackhawk Farms is further and cuts into the budget, but that might be an goal I should set for next year to reach out a bit more.

I bought the car due to the reasonable costs and capabilities. People love the look and sound of it on the track, so I think the car has an attraction that does not necessarily need an update. I have found a lot of people going to SM, SRF for the competitive nature.

Thanks for starting this conversation

Steve Flaten

[Darryl Wills]

Glad to hear from two new FM owners. Most classes in SCCA ebb and flow on their participation numbers. FM is in a down turn at the moment but should see increase in numbers if history is repeated. Continue to enjoy your FM even as you are experiencing low car count. The other two classes Steve mentioned offer big car counts but are uninspiring to drive compared to a FM. The operating costs are not that much different but the smile for mile does not even compare to our little rockets.

Don't forget that I am available via PM to field any questions or make a trip South and race with us...Texas World Speedway is coming up in November. Great track, great Mexican food and solid competition.

[tlaird]

I raced in the Russell Series from around 1995 to 2005 and found the FM spec cars to be the best fun I ever had racing. 60 racers show up and share car having fun racing. Great time.

It was too easy to get out spent racing my DSR which I sold last year. The GSXR motors were fun but very finicky and had to be rebuilt every year. Trying to make changes to stay competitive was expensive too.

Racing a BMW e30M3 in BMWCCA CR was fun too but that really cost more than my DSR! Sedans are nothing like a real race car no matter how much you modify them.

Currently looking at used FM's and hopefully will find one that fits the bill so I can get back on the track. I hold a National SCCA license for DSR so testing and adapting back to the rotary engine and hewland dog leg gear box wont be an issue.

Now just need to find a updated tall chassis for the right price.

Hope to be on the track next year.

Tad

[mstephenson51]

Daryl,

I'll revive the post and add a little input from my perspective....

I did a race once at Eagles Canyon back in (08-09?) and loved the heck out of it except for a couple things....

-I dont like that there are several classes of cars on track with VERY different speeds. From my kart racing experience I learned to HATE this. Inevitably, this leads to anger, lawnmowing, and even some wrecks. Now, I totally understand that doing this is part of what makes the SCCA what it is. Just saying that I very much dislike running with other classes.

-In the race I ran, there were some folks that drive like crap and try to make up for this by racing pretty rough. Not very fun in open wheel.

-Costs. Lets be honest, cost is always a concern. Realistically, there are no real sponsorships any more, at least not without "knowing a guy". So, for mortals like me it can be tough to bite off the expense of everything except the car itself: RACE FEES, tires, fuel, scales, trailer, updates/repairs.

-Great tracks needed. I saw there was a race at COTA, we obviously cant afford that all the time, but we need that kind of cool factor. For example, I race a kart race in lockhart tx, and because of how it is run and because of the venue it is amazing! we need that.

I am currently debating getting back to FM and getting me a car.... We will see how it goes.

[Gottaofaster]

Wish I could. It comes down to basics for me--time and money. I keep telling myself maybe "this year".

[MosesSmithRacing]

I just wanted to change the topic of this Thread for a second...The overall vibe of this thread is kinda negative (IMHO).

So lets see who can come up with the best answer to the question;

Why ARE you racing your FM?

Best answer wins 2015 FM T-Shirt!!

Moses

[dmccallum]

My son was racing Go-Karts and I was the mechanic. I can't tell you how much I hated working on a Go-Kart. Alan decided to run the Bondurant Championship series while he was at Arizona State and we were hooked. With support from Mosses and Tara, we have been running FM for 5 years and have had a great time. We have met wonderful people and have been able to spend some really quality time together as a family. It doesn't hurt that Alan is fast and is a past SCCA FM national champion. I enjoy working on the car and can do most things necessary to give Alan a competitive car. We are looking forward to the Runoffs again this year and hope to bring the championship back to Texas were it belongs.
Dale McCallum

[Zalfor]

theres a few of us who are going to start racing them locally in joliet, but its hard for us to transport them to race in the scca. also, there doesn't seem to be any other cars running in our region, so we will probably race within our own group (which is quite competitive)

[sflaten]

I find it is a very competitive car in the open wheel category. It has the best of the aero side of cars and the reasonable cost to run at less the FA,FC cars. It is great fun to drive and I feel is a challenge for any driver at whatever level you are at. I can fix the car myself, and it looks a lot better than the FF, FV etc. It's just fun!

[mstephenson51]

True. Lets get positive....

I am considering buying one (after having done rent-a-ride) now for several reasons...
I too am done with some of the go-kart crap. Getting harder and harder to compete unless I buy a new kart 1-2 times a year.
I love that FM is a race-y car at a very low price compared to any other formula car
I love that the car can be so competitive for so long without touching engine/gearbox
As a driver, the feel of the FM is very natural to me; karts always feel backwards to me
Driving a formula car is what I wanted to do ever since wrenching on indycars!

I just wanted to change the topic of this Thread for a second...The overall vibe of this thread is kinda negative (IMHO).

So lets see who can come up with the best answer to the question;

Why ARE you racing your FM?

Best answer wins 2015 FM T-Shirt!!

Moses

[rsaca]

I just wanted to change the topic of this Thread for a second...The overall vibe of this thread is kinda negative (IMHO).

So lets see who can come up with the best answer to the question;

Why ARE you racing your FM?

Best answer wins 2015 FM T-Shirt!!

Moses

Let me try then!

I'm from El Salvador and started racing go-karts (Yamaha kt100) in 2012 when I was 26 years old. Moved on to shifter karts and in 2014 won 2nd in the Guatemala National Championship.

For 2015, I bought a Formula Mazda in Guatemala with a friend since there are two races on Sunday. I used to only think about winning when I was driving the shifter kart and forgot to have fun. With the Formula Mazda, just having the privilege of driving it feels like I won already. Never had more fun in my life!

Here's a picture:

[automalone]

I just wanted to change the topic of this Thread for a second...The overall vibe of this thread is kinda negative (IMHO).

So lets see who can come up with the best answer to the question;

Why ARE you racing your FM?

Best answer wins 2015 FM T-Shirt!!

Moses

I got tired of the PR guys telling me to slow down. I used to do a little journalism on the side. Occasionally, we'd get to take some production cars (i.e. corvette, viper, GTR, etc) on track. They didn't always appreciate the speed of which I'd get their "race cars" up to. So I went to an SCCA race, met just about everyone there by the end of the day. Slept on it for a couple weeks, and decided on the Formula Mazda.
So far, I've been met with nothing short of stellar amounts of help and acceptance. EVERY person I've encountered within FM (racers, mechanics, friends, families, etc) have been so incredible. That alone is worth choosing this class above any other.
Also, I love F1. So this may be the closest I ever get to actually driving one. "Nobody's having more fun!"

[provamo]

having raced FV and FF in the sixties and seventies i tried a FM at the Russell school at Sears Point years ago and LOVED it

i also appreciated how their owner-drivers spent their time at a regional event polishing a wing or reading a book sitting on a chair.................low maintanence!

[Karl Markey]

After working corners for a decade and running track days for a couple of years, I knew I was a speed junkie like most everyone else on track and decided to do what I've always wanted - race. Going wheel to wheel would an extra thrill and, of course, I wanted to go faster also. Part of what I was really looking for was a different driving experience than my daily driver, Honda S2000, which was also my track day car. I hemmed and hawed over what tin top classes would be a good choice and also gave some thought to Spec Racer Ford. I did not think open wheel was affordable until I saw a couple of FM's in front of Texas Auto Sports during a track day.

I was back the next weekend for a test drive. 2 laps in I knew this was it; the driving experience was awesome. A few hours later I owned the car. And no, I'm not an impulsive person.

The car is great. It's fast. It's a blast. It's easier to work on than my tow vehicle. Sure, you need to keep after the maintenance but so far, I've not yet had a DNF in 1-1/2 years racing due to a mechanical issue. I've seen the tin top drivers I know all have issues over the same period. It's only a matter of time before I get these guys in my car and I'll bet they dump what they've been running.

I understand that low car counts can be a concern Most classes these days seem to be in the same boat. As long as there is other traffic on track, you've got something that needs to be passed. There's a lot to be said for the challenges of multi-class racing.

So, get an FM, get out there, have fun, and spread the word.