mixed class racing

[Hartley]

Great guys thanks for the feedback! I am just settling in after quite a few years away from the sport and getting used to the mixed class thing. So I appreciate a forum like this for asking the question before the situation actually arises. Yes I agree if I was holding anyone up I would deserve criticism, I was not talking about being lapped that is a no brainer.

Still like any good question, the replies are divided on whether to pull off line to let the other class car by. I guess in the end I would let him by for the obvious fact that he is faster because he has caught me from behind.

Next time I ask a question I guess I will preface it by stating that I am asking the question because I do not know the answer. Not because I would want to race with someone that I should not be racing with and be labeled a 'douche'! When I last raced in the 80s there were no F500/600s and there was not much chance of a FV being fast enough to even bring the subject up.

Again thanks for the feed back!

[jim morgan]

Hartley,

There is no right answer for every situation except don't screw up another classes race. I had a situation in Sebring earlier this year where I was chasing down another ff, after the race I thanked several faster cars who clearly gave me corners they could of chopped me off.

The response" I was by myself and could see you guys had a good race" is all we're talking about. Mixed class racing be aware of who your coming up on and who is coming up on you.

It takes more skill to do it in your mirrors as the slower class, it is a no brainer if you are the faster car and can see the dice in front of you as you approach.

[Hartley]

Jim,

Thanks I appreciate your experience and informed input. I am also glad you started this thread as I think it is a good time to discuss this scenario as the F500/600 group are becoming faster and greater in numbers.

As you say the driver has a good view as to what is going on in front but not such a good view as to what is going on behind.

I agree that it is obvious that a FF should not be racing with a FC or FE but there are slow drivers in these classes that can mess our races up as well as you pointed out at PBIR and I had the same problem at Sebring. It is not so cut and dried to say that just because a car is on your tail that he is faster than you. That is not always the case. In Sebring I had a FC car show up on my tail (not sure how he got there possibly after a spin) on the back straight going into 17 and I let him by with no issue. Then I proceeded to follow him and was held up and had to lift early in many places on the slow corners. After 2 laps of this and a lot of frustration I finally out braked him on a slow corner to pass him. I then realized I was faster than him and my lap times had been suffering and consequently was not advancing on the FF in front of me. So then this situation become a race for me to put enough distance on him so that he could not pass me again on the straight by virtue of sheer HP advantage. He was very keen to get by again and I had to make one blocking move to stop him. I then left him far behind after another lap.

So back to my original point. If I have one or more F500/600 cars on my tail do I want to sacrifice my race to let him/ them by? IMHO if their lap times are the same as mine he is an equal opponent and should have to race to get by me. I think that is the only fair way. Equal car equal treatment. Please no more douche/ jerk comments, only considered arguments are of any value.

Listen as I said I am new to all this so maybe I am thinking outside the box on this topic. When ever stats are given on 12/24 hour endurance races they always say for example that 'the #99 Porsche was first in class and 4th overall'. Do you not think that driver is proud to be 4th over all especially if he put faster class drivers behind him? Why do they give the over all finish stat if it is meaningless?

Again IMHO I think we should consider the F500/600 class as equal and race head to head even though we are in separate classes. At the end of the day are we not on the track to have good close racing? With small car counts i.e. 3 or 4 FFs at a regional race is it not a blessing to race with some one vs no one and possibly with 15 to 20 seconds between cars in the same class?

Thanks again for all your feed back.

[NPalacioM3]

I agree that it is obvious that a FF should not be racing with a FC or FE but there are slow drivers in these classes that can mess our races up as well as you pointed out at PBIR and I had the same problem at Sebring. It is not so cut and dried to say that just because a car is on your tail that he is faster than you. That is not always the case. In Sebring I had a FC car show up on my tail (not sure how he got there possibly after a spin) on the back straight going into 17 and I let him by with no issue. Then I proceeded to follow him and was held up and had to lift early in many places on the slow corners. After 2 laps of this and a lot of frustration I finally out braked him on a slow corner to pass him. I then realized I was faster than him and my lap times had been suffering and consequently was not advancing on the FF in front of me. So then this situation become a race for me to put enough distance on him so that he could not pass me again on the straight by virtue of sheer HP advantage. He was very keen to get by again and I had to make one blocking move to stop him. I then left him far behind after another lap.

FC should have given you a few of corners to get away if you were truly faster than him and his group got away from him, or if he had nobody to race with. Track awareness is part of being a racing driver and unfortunately, it seems to be somewhat of a lost art these days.

So back to my original point. If I have one or more F500/600 cars on my tail do I want to sacrifice my race to let him/ them by? IMHO if their lap times are the same as mine he is an equal opponent and should have to race to get by me. I think that is the only fair way. Equal car equal treatment. Please no more douche/ jerk comments, only considered arguments are of any value.

If they are faster than you, yes. Again, track awareness, you should know if you are holding them up or not.

Listen as I said I am new to all this so maybe I am thinking outside the box on this topic. When ever stats are given on 12/24 hour endurance races they always say for example that 'the #99 Porsche was first in class and 4th overall'. Do you not think that driver is proud to be 4th over all especially if he put faster class drivers behind him? Why do they give the over all finish stat if it is meaningless?

Because that is endurance racing, not sprint racing. Go endurance racing if it really helps your ego out where your overall finishing position is in a club racing event with plastic trophies.

Again IMHO I think we should consider the F500/600 class as equal and race head to head even though we are in separate classes. At the end of the day are we not on the track to have good close racing? With small car counts i.e. 3 or 4 FFs at a regional race is it not a blessing to race with some one vs no one and possibly with 15 to 20 seconds between cars in the same class?

No, we shouldn't. Want to race with the F500/600's? More of them in your region, which you should have researched before you bought your car? Go buy one.

[mousecatcher]

But if I am racing the F500/600 leader and we are equal in speed I am not sure I like the idea of letting him by if I think we could have a good race. There are not enough equal cars in a field due to the current economy to give up on what might be the best dice of the season.

I do this ("race" out of class). But only when I have pre-arranged it with the other competitor.

[Amon]

I was racing at the Glen last week and had a FF ruin my race by taking a bad line
into turn one, slow on the gas and causing me to lose the draft of the FV in front
as I was drafting him in an effort to catch the 2nd place car. Very frustrating and I won't be so nice the next time this occurs as it really has consequences for those of us who rely on momentum with our cars. I won't be unsafe about it but rather take the proper line
and let the FF deal with passing me safely.

Mark
'
88' Citation 002'

[Hartley]

FC should have given you a few of corners to get away if you were truly faster than him and his group got away from him, or if he had nobody to race with. Track awareness is part of being a racing driver and unfortunately, it seems to be somewhat of a lost art these days.

Thank you that is very constructive advice, well noted.



If they are faster than you, yes. Again, track awareness, you should know if you are holding them up or not.


Again great advice. Since this is a topic you know a lot about why not write an article on it and post it? This kind of race craft needs to be passed on. Seriously they do not address this topic in driver school.



Because that is endurance racing, not sprint racing. Go endurance racing if it really helps your ego out where your overall finishing position is in a club racing event with plastic trophies.


If we banned drivers with oversize egos I doubt there would be any one to race with. Besides I like plastic trophies they go well with my plastic hockey tournament trophies.



No, we shouldn't. Want to race with the F500/600's? More of them in your region, which you should have researched before you bought your car? Go buy one.

Again great advice but if we all had your wisdom we would not have a zillion classes and there would be more equal cars to race with. How how about another informed article?

[Bruce]

We were privileged to welcome Jonathan Weisheit to the FV family in the SF Region as an honorary member. He had the honor of dealing with the headache that our region has had, for more than a decade. What he was forced to do has been done three other times by different FV drivers at this track. I would like to buy you a drink when you come back for the Runoffs. See you in a couple of weeks.

[fv9]

We were privileged to welcome Jonathan Weisheit to the FV family in the SF Region as an honorary member. He had the honor of dealing with the headache that our region has had, for more than a decade. What he was forced to do has been done three other times by different FV drivers at this track. I would like to buy you a drink when you come back for the Runoffs. See you in a couple of weeks.

All of whom are then promptly protested. Ask me how I know...