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Thread: 2013 Runoffs

  1. #161
    Contributing Member Jtovo's Avatar
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    I've never seen anyone think that going to the outside of T1 at RA was a good idea for a pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago Santos View Post
    A few Runoffs videos have started popping up on Youtube.. I'll just leave this here, might be my favorite so far

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hsb5kBu7As
    Last edited by Jtovo; 09.24.13 at 9:12 AM.

  2. #162
    Contributing Member glenn cooper's Avatar
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    Default Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilroy Kinloch View Post
    Coop left before I could verify.

    Is it true that a major rubber company has been developing a special Rain II, or "Hurricane Tire", for the Daytona Runoff's?

    TK
    TOTALLY what I heard. Fully 33* Banking Capable, Dual Compound Tread - The whole shebang...

  3. #163
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    Default Looking in the rearview mirror

    I'm home from the 2013 Runoffs. I woke up this morning in my own bed without the sound of race engines warming up in the background. Sipping coffee this morning with Janice I tried to review the highlights of the 11 day marathon.

    ** Have no doubt about it, DaveW is a warhorse, and will always be a warhorse. He chose to run in a borrowed FV because he didn't want to run his FC and have to be "serious". He and Sherrie had this plan to do the Runoffs "low key". So the first day we were there we basically disassembled the borrowed car and reassembled it to Dave's standard. Obviously a low key weekend. Unfortunately it rained on too many FV sessions. DaveW kept developing the car and in the actual race had it very close. If that would have happened in a dry thursday qualifier, which was very wet, not only would he have started much farther forward, but i expect he would have finished in the top 16. By the end of the day, Dave left the Runoffs very happy with the way things turned out.

    ** On the flip side, crewing for Rand was the ying of the yang. Mike and Tracy went to be low key, and were seriously low key. Rand had a few goals. He wanted to to break 2:30, not be last, and have fun. He did go way faster than the 1975 Crossle that won at Road America in 1975. He easily broke 2:30. He wasn't last. Unfortunately he was always surprised by how soon some brake for corners, so instead of just rear-ending them, he would spin. He and Tracy really enjoyed the event. Their paddock space was the meeting place for a whos-who of the last 50 years of racing.

    ** I am beaten and convinced that my goal of getting Rand to use arm-restraints as a safety device and not a costume accessory will not be achieved in my lifetime.

    ** I went back after 6 years. I'm still convinced the format is way too long. 11 days to do one race is $%&! crazy.

    ** There are so many cool people and stories it boggles the mind. Trying to listen to all the great stories in just 11 days is difficult.

    ** I really really feel for Reid. A very class act. It's a shame his podium speech was not heard by all.

    ** Jeremy Griener and I developed the whole story line for my next racing novel while sitting on bar stools at the Brown Baer. Hopefully it will sell enough copies to fund some racing.

    ** It is very hard for me to be on the "wrong side of pit wall". I really rather be driving.

    ** Some where around Wednesday we had already re-titled the Runons to the "Road to Liver Failure".

    ** Bill Johnson's family is having way too much fun.

    ** Bruce Foss' contribution to road racing in the U.S. is enormous but done quietly in the background.

    ** Butch Kummer has a talent for saying the right thing at the right moment. His comment to Tim Kautz at the Lakeside Grill on Saturday night was perfect.

    ** Coop is one of those guys that loves this sport as much as i. His comic mind is always at max revs in 6th gear.

    ** Unless you crawl all over a JDR you will not understand how highly engineered the car is.

    ** Maybe the best thing was seeing Gib back at full speed, working at the pace of a 30 year old. To be able to call him a friend is a great honor. (picture below).
    Last edited by Purple Frog; 02.15.14 at 4:17 PM.

  4. #164
    Senior Member JByers's Avatar
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    Unfortunately he was always surprised by how soon some brake for corners, so instead of just rear-ending them, he would spin.

    During the race everyone in the turn one stands was mentally willing Mike's car to restart while he was stalled on the racing line. GEEEZ Mike - you about gave me a heart attack.

  5. #165
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    His clutch failed. So, after the struggle to start it with the clutch pedal in, i think he got smart and just started it in gear, letting the starter get it rolling fast enough to spoof the ecu......
    I just watched his in car video, it seemed like forever to start. I'm sure it seemed even longer to him.
    If not for that little deal he would not have been lapped.


  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post

    ** I really really feel for Reid. A very class act. It's a shame his podium speech was not heard by all.
    Thanks Mike, it was nice to get a chance to talk with you. Thank you for stopping by. I found the post race interviews. Here:

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/39078475

    The champagne made the ink run (really, not joke) on my list of people to thank. So those I left out were:

    • My parents and my Brother. My cousin, family friends, and all those that came out to watch and be there.
    • My best friend since middle school, Ken Jones, who drives 6 hours to come to every race he can.
    • My girlfriend who took a few days off of med school to come and support me (shhhh...don't tell her professors).
    • All the FF competitors. It really is a great class, with some really great people. I don't know of a class that has this many people that I really admire and look up to not only as racers, but also as human beings.
    • The workers. Really, those men and women are just nuts. To come out and spend a week of vacation standing in the awful weather we always have, rather than laying on the beach is pretty special. Also, looking around at the 50th party I did not see more than 5 workers under the age of 30. We really need to be thankful for the workers we have because in 10-15 years I see this being a huge problem for SCCA.

    After watching the race coverage I need to thank Tim for not only a great, hard, and close race but for the very kind words. It means a lot and helps take some off some of the sting. He's a pretty classy guy even if he is a trophy hog. He raced me like I raced him; hard, fair, and really close. To me, you can not get any better than that!

  7. #167
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    Default Runoffs diet concerns

    Not being a doctor, nor scientist, nor dietician, etc... I am wondering if i now only eat vegtables for 11 days, will it balance out 11 days of pure Wisconsin meat and cheese.

    By my calculations i might have to go 33 1/2 days without alcohol to balance up the numbers. I have made it 3 days.


  8. #168
    Global Moderator Mike B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post

    ** I went back after 6 years. I'm still convinced the format is way too long. 11 days to do one race is $%&! crazy.
    Everyone I talked to seemed to agree. Unfortunately, it looks like they'll be doing it again next year. That might solve the problem of where to fit all the cars at Laguna...
    Mike Beauchamp
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  9. #169
    Classifieds Super License stonebridge20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post

    By my calculations i might have to go 33 1/2 days without alcohol to balance up the numbers. I have made it 3 days.
    I thought that without some captain at least every 12 hours that your brain shrivels to the

    size and consistency of a raisin.
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  10. #170
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    But, with the Captain my brain expands to the size of a basketball with the same content as said basketball... air.


  11. #171
    Senior Member Beartrax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post
    [COLOR=purple]
    ** I am beaten and convinced that my goal of getting Rand to use arm-restraints as a safety device and not a costume accessory will not be achieved in my lifetime.
    Hmmm, I know someone like that...
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  12. #172
    Senior Member Beartrax's Avatar
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    Default Thanks Mike!

    Thank you for sharing the stories, Mike/Frog.
    "I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
    Barry Wilcock
    Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing

  13. #173
    Classifieds Super License racerdad2's Avatar
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    Ditto
    "An analog man living in a digital world"

  14. #174
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    Since the FF race i have chatted with some engineers smarter than i, and it has been interesting. The serious engineers think Tim and Reid's cars are much closer to being even than the results and images reveal. Both cars are trying to accomplish the same results with the front suspensions. Reid's with the mono-shock and Tim's with the "third spring" are just two different ways to get to basically the same result.

    The engines were super close. The aero was very close. Looking at videos, it appeared Tim had a little high-speed push, Reid had a little tail-wag at corner exit. Reid probably better through T1, the kink, and carosel, Tim probably better pulling out of T5, T11, and T14.

    The deeper you dig the more the two programs are so very close in many ways. Obviously just a matter of inches.


  15. #175
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    I watched the FF race yesterday and I have to agree they seemed very well matched - BUT.. It seemed like Tim could easily be behind at T14 and draft by before the line, while I'm not convinced that Reid could do the same :\

    It was a fantastic race, though!

  16. #176
    Senior Member GAC's Avatar
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    It appeared that Reid would always hit a wall every time he pulled out of the draft. There was either a drag or hp disadavantage or combination of both compared to Tim that was hurting him.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post
    Since the FF race i have chatted with some engineers smarter than i, and it has been interesting. The serious engineers think Tim and Reid's cars are much closer to being even than the results and images reveal. Both cars are trying to accomplish the same results with the front suspensions. Reid's with the mono-shock and Tim's with the "third spring" are just two different ways to get to basically the same result.

    The engines were super close. The aero was very close. Looking at videos, it appeared Tim had a little high-speed push, Reid had a little tail-wag at corner exit. Reid probably better through T1, the kink, and carosel, Tim probably better pulling out of T5, T11, and T14.

    The deeper you dig the more the two programs are so very close in many ways. Obviously just a matter of inches.

    I agree with most. But...our front ends are very different. Tim's front layout has roll and heave independent from one another with his third spring. Meaning, when he goes into roll, his lateral 3rd spring does nothing. On mine, the lateral spring and the transverse springs are constantly co-dependent in both heave and roll. His car has dampening in roll, where as mine has very, very little. Also, monoshocks are totally different in how they transfer weight to the inside tire as the front suspension is not independent as it is on a traditional dual shock car. I agree, I was better in the fast stuff and Tim was better with the slow stuff. The corners you noted are low speed exits, where torque helps. Tim and I were dead even through the Carousel, 7, and 13. He was better out of 5 for sure and 8. The tail-wiggle you mentioned in inherent to non-winged mono-shocks with no roll dampening. The front oscillates against the roll springs (remember, no dampening in roll) and makes the rear wiggle.

    You are absolutely right, the two engines, were very close. At the end of a lap I don't think you could make two totally different engines any closer, at Road America, with that temperature. Typically, the Honda hauls off the corners better, but it did not seem so and has not really shown to be so at most of the corners at RA. Maybe because the speeds are high enough the torque is not as noticeable? That said, off the corner they seem to be equally matched at RA, then the Honda picks up a little on the Ford, but the Ford gains it back at the very end of the straight. The one place that makes the Honda my engine of choice is up the hills after T6 and T14. That thing pulls like an FC. I got ahead of Tim coming out of T5 and he bumped me pretty good ¾ of the way up the hill. Now, shorten the straights, or raise the air temp and I think things start to go to the Honda.

    My prediction: Laguna is all Honda, Daytona is Ford’s domain.


    I'd disagree with the aero. Mine makes a HUGE wake. Notice, I never passed anyone on the straights and Tim could have me whenever he wanted me. He typically had me passed at the end of the first third of the straights. Where I would pull out on Tim and not even be able to get my front wheel alongside his sidepod. Also, one thing I found interesting, is when I had to pull over to get air through the rads, I ran the same lap times as I did drafting Tim. His car is very, very clean and the aero work they have done is impressive. When I was behind him last year the first thing I noticed is how little my helmet was being buffeted by the air off his car. Vestal-like. As a side note, the dirtiest car....any FE. Those things shake my head so much I have a hard time seeing and the air actually makes my car move side to side.

    After watching the coverage, our complete packages were really dead even. It came down to who made the fewest mistakes. To beat Tim and his ride, I needed to have 182 perfect corners and came up one short. I did not get through T14 clean, and that was my mistake that killed me. In order to beat Tim up the hill I would have had to gotten through T14 as good as ever, and move all the way to the wall and make him go to my left. Not sure this would have changed the outcome as he was a few feet ahead of me at the line the 2 times I tested that scenario.

    Regardless, it was a really great race and I wish it would have twice as long. Not because I think that would have given me an advantage, but just because it was that much fun.
    Last edited by reidhazelton; 09.26.13 at 2:35 PM.

  18. #178
    Contributing Member TimH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago Santos View Post
    I watched the FF race yesterday..
    Could you post a link? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    It appeared that Reid would always hit a wall every time he pulled out of the draft. There was either a drag or hp disadavantage or combination of both compared to Tim that was hurting him.
    Right on. Drag mostly. I mention the Ford gains a little back on the top end, and I say that because that was when the Honda stops pulling away, not that I gain ground. I know my car has aero deficiencies (no more than ever) and take that into account. Like I said, the Honda does have a low end advantage, but being that most of the corners at RA are higher in speed, that is not as noticeable.

  20. #180
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    Another thing of note, perhaps most interesting all week up until the race, was that Froggie has been able to not only incorporate purple into his everyday attire, but that it is the exact same shade. There have to be a million different purples out there, but his shoes, belt, and even the font he types is in perfect harmony.

    I'd hate to see the guys closet.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago Santos View Post
    I watched the FF race yesterday and I have to agree they seemed very well matched - BUT.. It seemed like Tim could easily be behind at T14 and draft by before the line, while I'm not convinced that Reid could do the same :\

    It was a fantastic race, though!

    Very correct. Up the hills, I would actually lose ground. I knew even before we got to the track, if there was ever a scenario to win I had to be leading coming into 14.

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post
    Reid probably better through T1, the kink, and carosel, Tim probably better pulling out of T5, T11, and T14.
    Very much agree.

  23. #183
    Classifieds Super License racerdad2's Avatar
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    Speedcasttv.com for replays of runoffs. CONGRATS to Reid & Tim on a great race ! (I was rooting for Reid)
    "An analog man living in a digital world"

  24. #184
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    My appologies for all the posts, I must be going though withdrawal already. I never should have gotten back in the car after being off the stuff for a year. This whole racing thing is really like heroin, once you are off it if you go back it is 10 times harder to quite the second time, it wastes all your money, once you are hooked it is all you want to do 24/7. When you can't get the real thing, you settle for what you can get. It appears Apexspeed is my methadone.

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