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  1. #41
    Global Moderator Mike B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asharfirst View Post
    If we find its not big enough We'll put in a bigger one.
    There's no "if" about it. Most of us have gone with custom oil coolers built to be as big as the stock radiator. If you get that oil cooler to work you'll be the first one in the history of F1000.
    Mike Beauchamp
    RF95 Prototype 2

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  2. #42
    Contributing Member RobLav's Avatar
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    An oil / coolant heat exchanger will work nicely here.

  3. #43
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    Default Oil coolers

    If you want to look at an example, take a look at what Mike Devins did on my car. Go to Post 48 (also #10-17 on Page 1) http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=51114&page=2
    I believe that there is something from the early days that said when these motors get hot they will then blow up next run. If your oil gets to hot then the motor is junk.
    Last edited by Mike Holland; 07.18.14 at 12:07 PM. Reason: added

  4. #44
    Contributing Member Rick Kean's Avatar
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    Default Secondary bennies

    Quote Originally Posted by RobLav View Post
    An oil / coolant heat exchanger will work nicely here.
    And, placing the exchanger inline, between two water radiators, allows shorter oil line runs; lower oil pressure drop.

  5. #45
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    Default bigger oil cooler

    Listen to those who have suffered through the developement process in the class....and do what has been shown to work. Go for the largest oil cooler you can fit in the sidepods....same for the radiator. Experimentation here can be costly.

    These engines are as much oil cooled as water cooled (due to gearbox friction...and also due to spraying the bottom of the piston with oil to cool the piston which helps control the flame spread in the combustion chamber.

    Plumbing for one each rad and cooler is simple and compact as well.

    Jerry Hodges
    JDR Race Cars

  6. #46
    Contributing Member glenn cooper's Avatar
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    In the spirit of "Design by Fire" , throttle cable needs rerouted away from header heat.

    (You guys are getting A #1 advice here!)

  7. #47
    Global Moderator carnut169's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david oleary View Post

    This car was Sean O'Conners FC MYGALE
    O'Connell

    Car looks absolutely amazing.

    I find that it makes me a bit crazy to read all about open wheel heroics when I'm without a car so just saw the post tonight.

    You're going to LOVE driving the Mygale. In the FC form it was a perfectly balanced ride that was completely predictable.
    Last edited by carnut169; 07.20.14 at 7:09 PM.
    Sean O'Connell
    1996 RF96 FC
    1996 RF96 FB
    2004 Mygale SJ04 Zetec

  8. #48
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    Default A-arms

    The pics of the A-arms make them appear to be CF or at least a CF look. I believe we are required to use steel or ferrous metals.
    “THE EDGE, there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.”
    Hunter S Thompson

  9. #49
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    Default crewchief

    Gee take it easy on me guys. I'm a little familiar with what these engines need. We ran a full house Suzuki GSXR 1000 for 5 yrs in a DSR. Both the rads and oil cooler are from the FC and are just sitting there to see how everything is going to fit. I really don't want to start messing with the side pods shape to fit in a bigger rad so I just might go with 2 like it was but with a larger oil cooler.



    Crew chief for Dave O'Leary

    N.E. div National Champ
    FF FM CSR DSR

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprocketmensch View Post
    The pics of the A-arms make them appear to be CF or at least a CF look. I believe we are required to use steel or ferrous metals.
    I think if you look more closely, you'll see that it is just the leading edges of the arms that way, but are in fact just covered in protective tape that happens to have a CF appearance.

  11. #51
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    Default Thanks sean

    You did a great job on your rebuild of this car I looked at all the pictures, the Mygale
    looks like a very strong chassis and we thought it would make a GREAT F1000, FB.
    everything on the car now is new, brakes package, all lines, engine, dash, exhaust, shocks updated, fuel pump, diff, chain, so we are looking forward to driving it soon.
    thanks
    dave

  12. #52
    Contributing Member Nicholas Belling's Avatar
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    Just some side comments from the recent pics :

    1. it looks like the swirl pot is possibly lower than the highest water passages on head. Call george dean and talk to him about this. Gary Hickman or John Labrie in their phoenix car just had to deal with this being an issue.

    2.shorten the exhaust tailpipe if you can. it has been proven on the dyno the extra length tailpipe does hurt HP.
    Nicholas Belling
    email@nicholasbelling.com
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

  13. #53
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    Default test night

    Hello Guys
    last night was our first test since we built the car, we tested at PIR and put around 50 laps on the car it ran GREAT, one concern we had was oil temp, seems high compare to what I had on my DSR 280 degrees,
    What kind of oil temp is safe??

    SPECIAL THANKS TO TOM ASHBAUGH AND DAVE SMITH FOR ALL THERE WORK AND EFFORT TO BUILD THIS GREAT CAR!!!!
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  14. #54
    Senior Member JohnPaul's Avatar
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    Awesome job dude!!
    "If you're not driving on the edge you're taking up too much space.... "

  15. #55
    Senior Member ghickman's Avatar
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    Default Oil temp

    Which side of the cooler is that temp taken from? That will tell us if it's getting too hot or if it's ok.

    I've been told by one engine builder you want to know how cool the oil is going in and another says you want to know how hot it is coming out. If you can collect data on both that helps. One builder tells me if you saw the temp coming out it will scare the hell out of you.
    Gary Hickman
    Edge Engineering Inc
    FB #76

  16. #56
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    Default oil temp

    Hi Gary
    The temp is taken from inside the oil pan itself, that is where I have always taken it?

  17. #57
    Senior Member ghickman's Avatar
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    That wouldn't be my choice on where to sample oil temp. I prefer to either have it on the inlet to the cooler or the outlet.

    My initial reaction is 280 seems high in the pan but maybe not.
    Gary Hickman
    Edge Engineering Inc
    FB #76

  18. #58
    Not an aerodynamicist Wren's Avatar
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    Congratulations on getting it on the track.

    If you are still using the oil cooler/radiator arrangement from post #36, you need to get rid of the second radiator and put in a much larger oil cooler. A much larger portion of the cooling in a motorcycle engine is done by the oil than in a street car. One radiator is plenty.

    Talk to your engine builder about where he wants you to measure oil temperature and then measure it there. 280 in the pan sounds really high.

  19. #59
    Contributing Member problemchild's Avatar
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    I'm not an expert on the class, but if you ran brief testing sessions at BeaveRun (in Northern PA) during the last week, that will be about the coolest temperature values you will ever see. The engine does not know if it is in a DSR or FB, so assuming you measured oil temp in the pan on the DSR, comparing values is valid, and probably more relevant than to other FB cars.

    Congratulations on a successful conversion!
    Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
    F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
    2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
    2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.

  20. #60
    Contributing Member Jnovak's Avatar
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    Your oil temps are too high. We always measured oil temp in the pan on our Piper. We NEVER saw over 250 deg F. on the hottest day, usually much lower. Get a bigger oil cooler
    Thanks ... Jay Novak
    313-445-4047
    On my 54th year as an SCCA member
    with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)

  21. #61
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    Default what jay said

    We also take our temps in the pan.....and again 250 is about tops.

    The oil in the pan goes through the pump, then the filter, then the cooler.....so it is as hot as it will get in the pan.

    Jerry Hodges
    JDR Race Cars

  22. #62
    Contributing Member Jnovak's Avatar
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    get those oil temps down or you will be buying engines instead of oil coolers.
    Thanks ... Jay Novak
    313-445-4047
    On my 54th year as an SCCA member
    with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)

  23. #63
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    Maybe go back and read post #41 and #45.
    Then read what Coop said in #46. You are getting great advice here.

  24. #64
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    Default Tom crew chief Mygale conversion.

    I agree that our oil temp was on the high side and at the same time water temp was 145 too low. we did replace the oil cooler that was in previous pictures with a large one. But my concern has been it has been it is partially blocked with the second radiator. I'm going to remove it and run with just one rad. next time. hopefully raise water and lower oil temps.

  25. #65
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    Default asharfirst update

    After 2 test sessions and 2 regional races. I am happy with the car so far. Oil temp problem seemed to come from the by pass hole in the engine had not been blocked. All the oil was not flowing through the oil cooler right. It is now. I do have temp sensors on both in the pan and out from the cooler. Looking forward to next year.

    Crew chief for Dave O'Leary. NE Nat.champ FM,FF,CSR,DSR.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn cooper View Post
    The idler on the ND car was there for "fine"/race weekend adjustment, and the dif itself had shims of 1/8" and 1/4" alum to make major/sprocket change adjustments, but also to keep chain off of Lwr L forward leg of A arm as mentioned.

    The brake pkg you mention is overkill for FB, my current car has 4 piston AP
    calipers and thick vented rotors, so I'm speaking from experience.
    That stuff IS amazing, but heavy.

    Alum twin piston calipers on floating FC spec rotors is the favoured setup, weighs less and works just as amazingly well.

    Of course if you have the DSR stuff just layin' there...

    PS saw the stick on heat shield material on firewall in front of headers - may I suggest a proper heatshield from Cool Mat - which is a double sided stainless sheet w/ some kind of ceramic wool/NASA spaceage stuffing. Surface is dimpled, and they will make to your pattern, or in my case a pre made mat intended for a Ford GT was perfectly sized.
    Depending how far the headers are from the firewall, the "stick-on" is going to "stick-off" in short order.



    Again, the car looks badass!
    Do you have an address for the "Cool Mat" .
    Thank you in advance, Steve

  27. #67
    Contributing Member glenn cooper's Avatar
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    Cool Mat Pat
    704 662-9099

  28. #68
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    Default Thank you

    Thanks, Steve

  29. #69
    Senior Member Bob Coury's Avatar
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    I am jealous Dave. Best of luck with the car.

    PS-are those car show pictures at Ross Park mall?

  30. #70
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    Default mygale

    Hi Bob
    Thanks
    I have tested the car but have not raced it yet, we are leaving today for Summit
    Point and then if everything goes well we will be trying to race it enough to get to the runoffs in Daytona.
    The car was in the mall in Indiana Pa, that is where the crew chief and crew lives so
    they like to show it off there.
    hope to see you in Daytona in the fall
    take care
    dave

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