Criteria for becoming a Majors/National class

[budawe]

The philosophy used in SCCA schools is to prepare drivers to participate in races safely. Procedures, flags and safety are the prime consideration. Most for profit schools that specialize in driving technigues and one on one instruction, charge multiples of what SCCA does. There are many great SCCA coaches and teachers, like Jim Kearny, who can teach the finer points of driving and racing.

Butch, the same is true of NASCAR. They have paid professionals who perform the same functions week in and week so efficiency is expected. If you pay the higher entry fees for a pro series you should have higher expectations.

[butch deer]

The philosophy used in SCCA schools is to prepare drivers to participate in races safely. Procedures, flags and safety are the prime consideration. Most for profit schools that specialize in driving technigues and one on one instruction, charge multiples of what SCCA does. There are many great SCCA coaches and teachers, like Jim Kearny, who can teach the finer points of driving and racing.

Butch, the same is true of NASCAR. They have paid professionals who perform the same functions week in and week so efficiency is expected. If you pay the higher entry fees for a pro series you should have higher expectations.

How much Do you think it would cost to simplify registration and Tech? Motorsports registration online has greatly simplified entering and I believe also simplified the registrars job as they can download all the entries and have pre printed tech sheets,lists for timing and scoring,etc. Now how about using those bar coded hard cards we all get and skipping the lines at registration. Tech for people with annuals could also take place over the course of the event thus freeing up friday nights for entrants to set up there paddock,unload there cars and have a early,leisurely, and stress free arrival.

Sorry for the rant. Thread was about criteria for majors classes. I haven't seen anyone who knows of such criteria answering hear.

P. S. I have tried the Boulevard product. I Believe Bill Bonow brought me some when he sold them some equipment to build or expand there brewery.

[gbmetcalf]

How much Do you think it would cost to simplify registration and Tech? Motorsports registration online has greatly simplified entering and I believe also simplified the registrars job as they can download all the entries and have pre printed tech sheets,lists for timing and scoring,etc. Now how about using those bar coded hard cards we all get and skipping the lines at registration. Tech for people with annuals could also take place over the course of the event thus freeing up friday nights for entrants to set up there paddock,unload there cars and have a early,leisurely, and stress free arrival.

Sorry for the rant. Thread was about criteria for majors classes. I haven't seen anyone who knows of such criteria answering hear.

P. S. I have tried the Boulevard product. I Believe Bill Bonow brought me some when he sold them some equipment to build or expand there brewery.

Used to be Chief of tech for the Glen region. Friday nights were a nightmare for both the entrants as well as my inspectors. I just read the annual tech clause in the GCR and nowhere does it say the annual tech MUST be done before the car is on track. That is one of the wonderful things about the GCR, the grey areas...... I imagine that you could wait to do an annual later on during the weekend. The one thing is that if you have one bonehead that bringsa car that is only 1/2 ready and it comes apart and hurts someone, the chief of tech becomes liable for an "unsafe" car being on the track.
I agree Friday nights at tech suck and there has got to be a way to simplify the process.

G.

[rave motorsports]

It would be nice if there were more Tech Inspectors in more areas. In our area the closet inspector is an hour away. To get an annual I have to load the car up, haul it over there, then load it again, haul it back. I guess I'm just lazy and don't want to give up a Saturday when I can just wait and do it at the track. Did I mention the $100 the closest guy charges. Mike Wolfe in St Louis is an awesome tech guy anyway so I do it at the first race at Gateway.

[Amon]

You get charged $100.00 for an inspection???? That's complete B.S. on part of the inspector, and he should consider it a priviledge rather than an opportunity to make
money. Shame on them!

Mark

[Parker]

Every time I hear someone complaining about tech, I tell them this after I calm down and decide to not punch them in the face.

"This is YOUR tech. The power to make things "better" is in your hands and if you are not working tech, you have no business complaining."

I think this applies equally to all the other specialties and jobs.

Seriously, we are all at least regional tech inspectors. You're not far from becoming a divisional and in this case you can perform annual inspections. Anyone suggesting there should be more tech people needs only to look in the mirror for the solution.

Also, the working members of SCCA are not here to help for profit businesses make money. If you are making money off of SCCA events and are not giving back substantially to the club, you should keep your mouth shut and be happy your clients entry fee isn't tripled.

We, as a club, have decided that tech needs to exist, we are to blame for its annoyances, and we are the tools and force for change.

Tech is a pain in the ass and the attitude that tech workers are "THEM" instead of "US" is cancerous! If you seriously tell someone that volunteering to tech your car is a privilege, you need to have your head examined.

[Amon]

If you think that charging $100.00 to tech a car is appropriate, then you have your
priorities mixed up as to why the club exists in the first place. Your attitude as a
Tech Inspector (I assume by your post) provides enough evidence why the "Us vs.
Them" exists! It's a priviledge to be a member of the SCCA, a driver as I am and if
you're a good tech inspector who is well respected, yes it's also a priviledge. Too bad
you seem too eager to take offense.....

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Tech is your mother. They're there to make sure you do it right and clean your room even if all you want to do is go play....

Tech is your second set of eyes if you wrench your own car.
Tech is your eyes if someone else wrenches for you and you arrive and drive.

It's stupid to take an adversarial approach to tech when they are really there to help you.

A few years back I arrived at a track, unloaded the car and then stood there staring at a 10mm nut in the middle of the trailer. Jacked up the car and couldn't find any missing. Did some test driving - all seemed fine. Passed tech fine but produced the nut and asked for a second set of eyes. Got 4 sets. Scoured the car. Nothing missing. Through genius deduction figured out later it came off another car we previously had on the trailer - nut survived 500 miles on an open trailer. Silver nut on silver surface. I now sweep between cars.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

If you think that charging $100.00 to tech a car is appropriate, then you have your
priorities mixed up as to why the club exists in the first place. Your attitude as a
Tech Inspector (I assume by your post) provides enough evidence why the "Us vs.
Them" exists! It's a priviledge to be a member of the SCCA, a driver as I am and if
you're a good tech inspector who is well respected, yes it's also a priviledge. Too bad
you seem too eager to take offense.....

If I read correctly that is $100 for an inspection NOT AT AN EVENT. That's taking the inspectors time away from his shop or other business, not his volunteer time at an event.

I could be wrong.

[Amon]

BBRacing:

Who suggested taking adversarial approach towards tech? I get along very well
with tech, appreciate the job they have to do and a friend of mine, Mike Kowalsky
is even kind enough to come to my home on his way home from work to tech my
car each spring. So no, I'm far from adversarial towards them, just stunned that
someone would charge $100.00 to tech, and others feel it's acceptable.

Mark

[Parker]

Too bad you're still complaining instead of telling us and showing us how you are going to give to the club instead of just taking from the club.

I am genuinely interested in how my posts have propagated a Them vs. Us feeling.
My attitude is squarely focused on everyone pulling their weight to make this great thing happen. Paying an entry fee and driving a car are not pulling one's weight.
I'm asking and demanding that everyone get involved in what it takes to make a race happen. Then you will have proper insight into a situation and, in my opinion, license to suggest a change and proximity to enact that change.

I don't have any problem shutting down tech, but that is because I have faith in my ability to prepare a safe car and to play by the rules. I assume tech was created because not everyone demonstrated these abilities.

[gbmetcalf]

Charging $100 for an Annual Tech is totally asinine! There is absolutely no reason to charge to do an annual tech! I would travel to my guys during the pre-season. I never asked for gas money or anything...... but the joke was they would get me a sixpack of beer because I drank so little. I had a basement full of well aged beer for a couple of decades.
I totally agree that we are all regional tech inspectors! I had a couple of drivers, after they were teched, they would jump in and get the other drivers thru as fast as they could. We are all in this together, some drivers feel that the volunteers are there because of them...... If it wern't for the volunteers the drivers wouldn't get to play!
I've had many an heated disscussion on this topic and to tell a tech inspector (who desprately wants to race) that it's a privilege to look at your dirty, stinky drivers equiplent is an insult! Face it we all have come across a tech inspector that was..... well.... ummmm a dick. I for one could be one if pushed to that point. One of the most important things to remember when you are tired, been standing in the tech line an hour, is to respect eachother. That tech inspector has been there far longet than you will ever be. Their weekend starts well before yours and ends well after yours. Most of the time when you are home or at the hotel eating dinner the tech inspector is still packing up equipment or dealing with teardowns till late into the night.

OK end of rant.

G.

[Amon]

Parker,

Please show me where I was complaining other than the $100.00 being charged
for tech inspections?


G,

As I mentioned previously, I appreciate what the tech inspectors and in fact all of
the SCCA workers provide for us so we can race. I do realize they're volunteers
and because of that, it makes me and most others appreciate the time they take
to make the races happen. Also, I never said it was a "priviledge" to inspect a car, but rather to be a "Tech Inspector" as it is to be a driver and hold those titles. I never said it was a priviledge to inspect anything.....
End of rant as well!

Mark

[Hardingfv32]

Paying an entry fee and driving a car are not pulling one's weight.

I strongly disagree. This is a team effort where 'paying & driving' is one part of the game. I am not going to say anyone activity is more important than another. They are all required to make a successful event. Some of us spend time & money while others just spend time.

Brian

[Doug FST 5]

So, I work my ass off in the garage for a few weeks to get the car ready then pay for my part of the race expenses and I'm not pulling my weight? Get real. I do what I can to help the newbies but without my funding nobody gets to go play cars for the weekend. Wake up.

Doug FST 5

[gbmetcalf]

Parker,

Please show me where I was complaining other than the $100.00 being charged
for tech inspections?


G,

As I mentioned previously, I appreciate what the tech inspectors and in fact all of
the SCCA workers provide for us so we can race. I do realize they're volunteers
and because of that, it makes me and most others appreciate the time they take
to make the races happen. Also, I never said it was a "priviledge" to inspect a car, but rather to be a "Tech Inspector" as it is to be a driver and hold those titles. I never said it was a priviledge to inspect anything.....
End of rant as well!

Mark

Actually Mark that comment really wasn't directed at you. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told that when I was a inspector. I would have a much larger race budget. The reason I quit being a tech inspector and the SCCA was because a formula ford driver decided to take his aggression out on me when I stepped between him and another driver while they were in my impound. He regretted pushing me and I regretted what happened to him. I came back because I have loved formula Vee since the 70's and I saw a chance to race and build the cars I love. I Respect everyone at the track, I may not agree with them but I respect them. From the chief steuard on down they all deserve my respect.

G.

[Amon]

Actually Mark that comment really wasn't directed at you. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told that when I was a inspector. I would have a much larger race budget. The reason I quit being a tech inspector and the SCCA was because a formula ford driver decided to take his aggression out on me when I stepped between him and another driver while they were in my impound. He regretted pushing me and I regretted what happened to him. I came back because I have loved formula Vee since the 70's and I saw a chance to race and build the cars I love. I Respect everyone at the track, I may not agree with them but I respect them. From the chief steuard on down they all deserve my respect.

G.

[Steve Demeter]

There are probably not too many folks left who remember when you had to do a full tech at EVERY event before going on track. PERIOD .

That was a nightmare.

Then came annual tech. made event tech a breeze. Just take your logbook and gear to tech and get your sticker.

If you did not have an annual, car had to go to tech. But most supps stated that annual tech was available by appointment. Simply put, if you are not enough on the ball to get an annual before the season make the appointment and get it at your first event.

Now most places, don't even have to take gear to tech, just helmet if that much. As long as annual is current and logbook is clean.

Now it has gotten even more simple. Just take logbook to express tech at registration and if it is clean and you have a current helmet sticker you bet the sticker then and there.

IT DOESN'T GET MUCH EASIER THAN THAT.

All said and done the tech folks have IMO made it as easy as possible on the competitors and any competitor that complains about having to make the very little effort compared to years past is just plain stupid.

The tech folks bend over backwards IMHO to work with the competitors, and should be appreciated, not bitched about.

[BLS]

What Steve said...

I well remember going through a full tech inspection at every race. First there is the line....

Nothing to complain about from my standpoint. I like tech inspectors

[Wren]

Also, the working members of SCCA are not here to help for profit businesses make money.

Those guys are doing more to put cars on the track than most people. They are the only choice for a lot of people to be able to race.

Paying an entry fee and driving a car are not pulling one's weight.

If you are wondering where an "us" vs. "them" attitude might come from, it is from opinions like this.

I'm asking and demanding that everyone get involved in what it takes to make a race happen.

That's what the drivers are doing with a large sacrifice of both time and money.


Steve Demeter is right. SEDIV makes it really, really easy. They will even send a tech inspector around at Road Atlanta to see if you need one or want to go ahead and get it done.

[butch deer]

Hey! I never said Tech was bad. I just tried to make the point that Waiting in slow moving lines on a Friday evening are the most stressful part of the weekend for me. If Registration and Tech can be expedited than The whole weekend goes better. I feel this is one area where Pro racing,NASA,IMSA,NASCAR and others outshine the SCCA Club Racing in general. If you want to make the experience better start here.

P.S. The craft beer hasn't arrived yet.

[clint]

I would gladly give a tech inspector a 100.00 to inspect my car if it wasn't being done at the track. You don't have to pay in the first place, just show up to a race and wait for a while until its your turn. Maybe its just me, but I have tried my best to give money to tech inspectors that's willing to come over to my paddock area to do a annual on our cars. They refused to take it! Ive tried buying them lunch, giving them a gift card to a place to eat, and we have even offered them a ride in one of our cars. Even though they didn't take any of it I still feel that if theyre not in the tech area, YOU are inconveniencing them. If you want convenience, be willing to PAY FOR IT, if not then go the normal route and wait in line for a couple of hours. You dont ask the registration team to come to your house so they can register you! I can say that the Atlanta Region tech guys have made getting a annual about as easy as it gets. They have a clip board that you put your name and phone number on and they call you when theyre ready for you. It doesn't get much smarter or easier than that. One year the tech guy came over to my paddock because it was raining and he didn't want me to have to drive that distance in the rain with a open wheeled car. I tried to compensate him with no luck.

Bottom line, unless you're at a event and in the tech shed the tech person shouldn't be considered a volunteer. If you want he/she to inspect your car on THEIR time then expect to pay them for it especially if they travel to you! I wish I had that OPTION! I'm not trying to be a A$$ , but if anyone thinks it should be a "privilege" to inspect any ones car then maybe you should treat yourself to going around the country as a tech inspector so you can have the "privilege" to inspect cars so that those drivers don't have to wait in line a the track like everyone else that doesn't have the option in the first place. If that's really the way someone would view the responsibility of a tech inspector, then by all means go "treat" yourself year round to this very task. After you run out of money while having the "privilege" to travel around and inspect every ones cars you may then understand why some of them ask for the 100.00 . If tech guys shows up to a event, go thank them for doing so. Without Them, YOU'RE NOT RACING THAT WEEKEND. In case you're wondering, no im not a tech guy, im about the furthest away that one can be from any form of authority at a SCCA event.

[racerdad2]

I actually enjoy being teched. One more set of eyes to catch a potential problem. Not just for me, but for all the racers. Yes, it can be a PITA. OTOH, a good time to talk with your fellow competitors.

Not to mention it's far more enjoyable than a root canal

[rave motorsports]

Can we please return this to my topic. What if any criteria is used to determine when a regional only class can be moved to a Majors class. Is it strictly car count? Is it the political perception of the class? Is there no real criteria and just the opinion of a few people? The Major at Hallett had 5 FV's. If we could put
10 FST's at a Major would that be a strong enough car count to get consideration. We are traveling to Mid Ohio in Two weeks for a "Regional". There are 14 cars signed up currently and we hope to have 16 or 17. I believe as of now there are 14 F1000 cars signed up. I don't really care what the criteria is I would just like to know if there is one?

[kea]

Tech is your mother. They're there to make sure you do it right and clean your room even if all you want to do is go play....

Tech is your second set of eyes if you wrench your own car.
Tech is your eyes if someone else wrenches for you and you arrive and drive.

Tech was never designed to see if you put it together right (unless they "just happend upon something"), but to see if your car fit the GCR and class rules.
Do not expect a Tech inspection to find that nut & bolt you forgot to tighten.

[BLS]

The GCR, section titled "RUNOFFS-ELIGIBLE CLASS PARTICIPATION REQUIREMENTS" defines the requirements.

But it is a gray area since there are "may's" involved. Regarding the FST class, I'm going to guess it will take wider participation at the regional level across the regions AND many requests from the members. Personally I would like to see it happen. Of course, reading the section, the BOD can create a new runoffs eligible class based upon demand from the members or manufacturers without any regional participation first. So, it seems to me there needs to be a large demand for the class and the BOD could/would re-create the class as runoffs eligible. I don't think that demand is anywhere near the arbitrarily required level.

[Amon]

Clint,

You obviously can't read because no one said it was a privilege to inspect a car! But obviously
you read what you want and ignore everything else, so I'm glad you're not a Tech inspector
and SEE what you want and ignore everything else!

Mark

[clint]

Clint,

You obviously can't read because no one said it was a privilege to inspect a car! But obviously
you read what you want and ignore everything else, so I'm glad you're not a Tech inspector
and SEE what you want and ignore everything else!

Mark

You get charged $100.00 for an inspection???? That's complete B.S. on part of the inspector, and he should consider it a priviledge rather than an opportunity to make
money. Shame on them!

Mark

Maybe I did,maybe I didn't,However I was just reading exactly what you typed. Word for word in the order that you typed the message in, I don't think I misinterpreted it. I called a fellow racer and asked him to tell me how he interpreted it and it was the same that I did. Not saying hes right anymore than myself , just saying that its not just me reading and "seeing" what I want to see.

[B Farnham]

Can we please return this to my topic. What if any criteria is used to determine when a regional only class can be moved to a Majors class. Is it strictly car count? Is it the political perception of the class? Is there no real criteria and just the opinion of a few people? The Major at Hallett had 5 FV's. If we could put
10 FST's at a Major would that be a strong enough car count to get consideration. We are traveling to Mid Ohio in Two weeks for a "Regional". There are 14 cars signed up currently and we hope to have 16 or 17. I believe as of now there are 14 F1000 cars signed up. I don't really care what the criteria is I would just like to know if there is one?

You keep comparing on a race by race criteria when I'm sure the SCCA uses national total numbers. I think last I looked there were at least 10 FVs for every FST racing so not a good comparison. If the SCCA had National classes on a region by region basis then things would be a mess, thats why overall numbers are looked at.

[Amon]

Clint,

And you completely ignore my other posts which confirms my prior post!

I'm done with topic but feel free to interpret as you see fit!

Mark

[Bruce]

I just looked at the regional participation of FST, if it is accurate there are only two Divisions out of 9 that has any cars to count. The total car count is 7. The Divisions are Midwest 3 and SoPac 4. All others are 0. I would suspect that a class to be considered it would have to have participation in every Division. The class has existed for over 10 years, if this is the total participation it can muster, I personally do not see how it deserves a consideration.

You need to make it a class, with national participation, first. You seem to have succeeded in one or two Divisions.

Reading the GCR August 2014 edition, Page 82, Section 9.1.13, FST has never met the requirements for being a Runoff eligible class.

When did the idea of being a stand alone class change? I ask this because when the discussion of disc brakes were mentioned for FV, someone blamed FV for the failure of FST. It seems someone from FST always needs to mention for the class with numbers and stability (FV) to change to the class with less.

Bruce

[BLS]

I'm not sure how you arrived at total car counts as there are many more than that in the MW. OTOH, if it is average per regional race, different kettle...

The FST guys in the MW have their own series and typically all go to the same regional race. They do not go to every race on the calendar. Regardless, there is not enough participation per the GCR to warrant a majors class. Unless the BOD should decide there would be if it were a majors class...

[rave motorsports]

You keep comparing on a race by race criteria when I'm sure the SCCA uses national total numbers. I think last I looked there were at least 10 FVs for every FST racing so not a good comparison. If the SCCA had National classes on a region by region basis then things would be a mess, thats why overall numbers are looked at.

The FST community is well aware we don't have enough numbers yet. I stated that earlier. So what is the magic number? Do we have to have the exact number as FV? If that's the case then why are there a lot of Majors classes right now with fewer numbers then FV? Why are we even compared to FV? To us we are a totally different class. From the description I'm getting we need a few hundred in every division.

[butch deer]

I just looked at the regional participation of FST, if it is accurate there are only two Divisions out of 9 that has any cars to count. The total car count is 7. The Divisions are Midwest 3 and SoPac 4. All others are 0. I would suspect that a class to be considered it would have to have participation in every Division. The class has existed for over 10 years, if this is the total participation it can muster, I personally do not see how it deserves a consideration.

You need to make it a class, with national participation, first. You seem to have succeeded in one or two Divisions.

Reading the GCR August 2014 edition, Page 82, Section 9.1.13, FST has never met the requirements for being a Runoff eligible class.

When did the idea of being a stand alone class change? I ask this because when the discussion of disc brakes were mentioned for FV, someone blamed FV for the failure of FST. It seems someone from FST always needs to mention for the class with numbers and stability (FV) to change to the class with less.

Bruce

The participation number you looked at is only thru April. Most of the FST cars are in the North and we only start racing at the end of April or beginning of May. Either wait or look at last years totals for the season. I expect early numbers will be down because the July date for the Hoosier FST series was cancelled because of track problems at Nelson ledges and a race was added in Oct.
I would also like to know if being a majors class can happen without being runoffs eligible? With Regional races being cancelled and dropped from the schedule like flies around my part of the country and other just teetering on the brink of profitability I'm more concerned about having a place to race than going to the run offs. Most regional class cars like IT and Cf can race at majors should they choose with no more prep than changing the class designation on the side of there car and entering in a class they are already legal in. Those of us who cant do that need some help if we are top stay with the SCCA.

[Matt King]

Like Butch said, being eligible to run in Majors does not mean the class has to be allowed to attend the Runoffs. In fact, wasn't the SCCA talking about enforcing the 2.5 rule for the Runoffs, which would mean even some current Majors eligible classes wouldn't be invited to the Runoffs?

[B Farnham]

The FST community is well aware we don't have enough numbers yet. I stated that earlier. So what is the magic number? Do we have to have the exact number as FV? If that's the case then why are there a lot of Majors classes right now with fewer numbers then FV? Why are we even compared to FV? To us we are a totally different class. From the description I'm getting we need a few hundred in every division.

YOU were comparing FV numbers to FST numbers in YOUR region which is why I brought that up. Its unrealistic that FST will even have half the numbers FV does in the next 5-10 years. You'd want to compare to the bottom of the barrel classes that are runoffs eligible.

[jhenn4716]

There needs to be an "Easy Button". I do see several areas on the website orientated to new folks, even a pop up that said something like "GO RACING NOW; CLICK HERE".

A very successful driver I know once told me, "if it was easy, everyone would be doing it". Racing isn't easy. But bringing in people should be. As a racer and an official I have witnessed an attitude which isn't good for the SCCA. That elitist mentality that we are better then everyone else. (Though it is changing, albeit slowly). While in some ways we are one of the best clubs out there, we need to be a bit more humble.

The creation of the Majors in idea was not a bad idea, maybe 10-15 years ago. When the car counts were high and there plenty of races. Having a series where the top drivers raced would have been ideal. Now that numbers have decreased due to more reasons then can be named in this post, it's a questionable idea if implemented incorrectly.

How many drivers will qualify for the runoffs, and park their cars? We need to find ways to get cars on track and keep them there. There will never be single car fields again short of the runoffs.

Someone mentioned a mentor program, I think that would be a great way to bring in new drivers. Find willing drivers or teams that would be willing to show a new driver around. Show them what it takes; from race prep before getting to the track, at the track getting ready, all the ins and outs of racing.

When I finally decided to get behind the wheel instead of watching racing, it was the family of racers that I had met that helped me the most. We need to show that to new drivers. That there is more to racing then just getting on the track and going fast. I think that is our hook if we can get their attention.

[MDRacing]

Please understand that my comments are not meant to be snarky and I apologize if they may be taken that way, it is certainly not my intent.

My easiest response to Rave’s question is, don’t ask me how your class can be included in the Majors, rather you tell me why you don’t want to run one of the classes that are already eligible for the Majors. In theory, the BoD of SCCA says they finally get it. Don’t try to make every car that shows up to SCCA eligible for the Runoffs. Run-what-you-brung at the divisional level for fun if you wish or, run what we offer at the Majors level to go to the Runoffs. If you absolutely want to build an air-cooled sports racer or a V-8 Pinto, go for it, but don’t ask why you can’t bring it to the Runoffs.

Totally separate from this is that the unintended consequence of the split between Majors and the divisional programs has been the loss of a place to race for the regional drivers and classes because the races are no longer supported by the national drivers who have moved on to the Majors. That is a completely different and very necessary discussion. But the answer is not by allowing everybody to run Majors, that puts us right back where we were.

Yes, the twenty-something classes listed are not the optimum mix and the BoD has promised to keep a long-term view in mind in spite of their short-term BoD seat. And I can think of numerous reasons why any Majors class except mine should be dropped. But the next item on the agenda is how to help the divisional races survive.

[rave motorsports]

I race what I race for several reasons:
1) Money, I have a FV and I honestly can't see spending a bunch more money to run it. My FST is much less expensive to run and I own a VW shop. The tires and parts cost are much more and that's a fact I can prove. We keep very good records.
2) If all of these Majors drivers are supporting the majors available class why was there only 5 FVs at the Majors at Hallett? The President of SCCA is in my division and owns an FV. I don't know the reason but she was not listed as running at that event. Fact look at the results on the Mid Div web site. We will have more FST in this area than that next year.
3) I prefer to go faster for less. FV is yesterday's performance at tomorrow's price.

I think I have a valid question. It seems to me that any well run organization should have clearly defined criteria. I don't care what that criteria is. That's my point that nobody can seem to grasp. If being a majors class requires 1,000 cars nationally then tell me that and when we reach 1,000 cars I expect to be made a Majors class. Right now it seems to me there is no true black and white criteria. It seems that the determining factor for being a Majors class is made in a closed door, back room, good old boy, fashion. Tell me what the actual numbers we must meet are. That's all I want. Like I said at the beginning I know we aren't there now but how do we hit a target that seems to change depending on who's at the head of the table today.

[Daryl DeArman]

Tell me what the actual numbers we must meet are. That's all I want. Like I said at the beginning I know we aren't there now but how do we hit a target that seems to change depending on who's at the head of the table today.

History tells me there aren't any actual numbers that must be met.

Look at how long all the IT classes were regional only despite their huge numbers.....for years any request for National status was met with a response such as "not within class philosophy".

Four classes in 2013 couldn't even average 2 cars per national! In 2013 8 classes couldn't meet the old 2.5 rule that was dropped....IMO no coincidence that FE failed to meet 2.5. If enforcing your own rule would be detrimental to your business interests, you change the rule!