Michigan International Speedway

[reidhazelton]

Hate to be a Debbie Downer....but does this track look really unfriendly for openwheel/GT/SR cars to anyone else? Any off's look like there will be a lot of rather large craters to dodge and I think I saw a few left over fire pits. The transition from the banking looked really abrupt, seemed to jostle the car in the video a lot...assume to be a stock sedan going about 30 mph.

I don't see how this is "Majors worthy". Has anyone ran there recently?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=LpUIiL2CFL0

[kflyer]

Looks fine to me.

[Jim Nash]

I have to think there are going to be some jersey barriers to be put in place. There are a few spots that if left they way they are I probably would not race. (I won't be there either way.)

Does not look great but maybe it will turn out to be OK.

Jim

[Steve Demeter]

Reid, I agree 110%.

At 1:25 into the video, if you blow the entrance, you are into the base of the scoreboard.

At2:07, you are going through what appears to be an opening in the oval wall/ chain link fence/ that has posts within inches of the racing surface (actuially looks like an infield road to me). I thought that we were supposed to be getting away from conditions like that, not holding major races at a facility full of them.

Sometimes one wonders what people are thinking.

And the off course at Nelson Ledges is much nicer than what is shown in the vides as to the dropoffs from the pavement to the grass / gravel / dirt adjacent.

I was kind of going to go to that event, being it ia a pretty historic place, but not now.

[reidhazelton]

I was hoping I was imaging things.

The apparent large craters and semi-duelly tracks in the grass is a little concerning. Some seem pretty deep from what little you can see.

Some jeresy barriers and a little grading and it could be better. Still early, so maybe they have plans to spruce it up. Western Michigan Region throws a top notch show, some of the most enjoyable and friendly staff I've met. Hope they have a good facility to let them do what they do well.

[reidhazelton]

I missed the fence at 2:07....wow. That thing looks mighty stout.

[Mark_Silverberg]

Detroit region ran regionals at MIS in the early 90's - the exact dates escape me - but I do not believe past 1994.

The infield course is primarily used for police traing and connected vehicle development for the automotive industry.

The video shows a CCW race direction which was abandon by detroit region after the first regional race in 1990 or 1991 because of the difficult transition between the oval and the road course. The distance from the edge of the course to the barrier coming off the oval is much closer than the distance to the score board base as cited at 1:25 in the video.

In the reality the right hand turn with the score board on the outside is not such a big deal as there is much extra paving on the out side and quite a bit of runoff room.

When SCCA ran there in the 90's there were Jersey barriers added going through the gate where the track rejoins the oval at 2:07 in the video. The opening looks much less than it was 20 years ago. They may need to remove some fencing as there opening is quite narrow.

I am still very confused as to why scca would allow a Majors event to occur on such a track. It is really good for spectating but that is about it.

The track was used by michigan kart club last fall and does appear to be pretty smooth - but they were running CW direction and had a hair pin coming of the oval in the back stretch to go to the infield making the transistion quite slow.

[Brian.Novak]

I'm told that SCCA expressed that they thought there were issues with the track, and that MIS agreed to address them (safety, barriers, etc). Maybe someone can fill us in?

[JRMarchand]

I hope they do something about the music is terrifying.

*I can't see any corner stations*

This is from last year before MIS revamps to meet sanctioning.

Definitely driving that place nice and easy, live to see Mid-O the weekend after.

[Dave Harmison]

I wish there was video from 20 years ago because I don't remember MIS being as bad as it looks in the video. I think they've added buildings in the infield and completely changed the fencing/guard-rails since the last SCCA race there.

[Fatoldman7]

I found this video on youtube, for those of you that have never raced karts, bumpy tracks, and safety barriers, take on a whole new dimension in a kart. The track doesn't look to bad, but they might be running it backwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GobzfkDvfso

and for grins...if MIS loooks scary, check out these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSJOkiV-S0g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC3qXYI-J5o

It's hard to believe such events are still allowed to take place.

[Mark_Silverberg]

I wish there was video from 20 years ago because I don't remember MIS being as bad as it looks in the video. I think they've added buildings in the infield and completely changed the fencing/guard-rails since the last SCCA race there.

When detroit region last raced there in the 90's there was only one restroom building in the outfield. The three close to the track may all have been added since the last race. The score board was also not in the present locations. The salt bath trough which remained after AMC abandoned the facility may or may not have still been there in the mid 90's. For those of you who do not know MIS served as one of the AMC proving grounds from the Penske purchase of the speedway in 73 until Chrysler purchased of AMC from Renault in 1987. The use of the speedway by AMC was one of the reasons that the road course fell out of use for an extended period.

The only other use of the road course I recall was for an IMSA race in 1984.

I do not recall the entrance to the infield at pit out has changed much since 1990. I do think the exit onto the oval from the infield at the end of the backstraighthas changed somewhat.

[Modo]

per video.......looks fine to me too.....seems like a lot of infield though, that is compared to Pocono or Charlotte but maybe not.........yes, don't want to miss coming off the oval especially in the non-chicane days........new tracks allow misses with pebbles or the extended asphalt/squeal your wheels deal like T1 WG, ............. didn't see too much whoaa except the buildings on the right at one point, believe someone covered that above.............can stop in for a refreshment if you are not winning and they have curbside

[dalz]

We were planning to go but the more I see I'm having serious reservations. There's just too much to hit at too blunt of an angle, short of lining almost the whole thing with temporary walls. I don't like it. And this is coming from a guy that lived to go to the IRP every year!

I don't put much faith in that the problems have been, or will be "fixed". The place is owned by ISC. Ask even the spectators--to the NASCAR France family all things are secondary to keeping the money-printing machine spinning at maximum speed.

[Jnovak]

I raced the track once in F440 and the only surface that was bad was the transition to the road course off of the oval. That was a pretty serious transition.

The current surface actually looks pretty decent to me based on the Kart video. My 2 saftey concerns are the gate entry to the oval and the buildings on the right. I am sure they can do something about the a temporary barrier by the buildings but the entry to the oval looks dangerous as it is a braking and passing zone. Perhaps they could put a major chicane before the gate to slow the speeds down in that area.

Thanks ... Jay Novak
45 years as an SCCA member.

[Mark_Silverberg]

I tried to find historic aerials of the track to determine when the rest room buildings were added and could not find anything pre 1998. I do not recall them being there in the early 90's but I could be completely wrong - or there was only one there. The 1998 pictures did show two buildings instead of 3.

As a flagger and spectator it was a very enjoyable track as you could see so much action and what was developing. I know the race direction was changed from CCW to CW after the first scca race on the infield in 1990. IMSA ran CCW in 1984 - the pictures from that time show more Armco in the infield (and the oval back stretch wall was still armco not concrete).

In the days of the outfield road course of the late 60's they ran CW

[dalz]

Well...anyone seen, or heard, about road course setup at MIS? Just wondering if any locals are aware of work done at the track yet.

[Amon]

I raced there last August in the "Chump Car " series race and indeed, the transition from the banking to the infield is very abrupt and shouldn't present too much of a problem to a production car, but a formula car is another matter. We also had problems with the amount of rocks and gravel thrown up on the race surface at the corners by cars too aggressively apexing them etc. The entrance onto the banking isn't very fast by design and overall, the infield could use some help. Good luck to all that attend!

Mark

[dalz]

Well I'm glad to say that for the most part my usual skepticism was unfounded. Not an artistic masterpiece, but I thought it was a very servicable racetrack. It's most important need is some curbing around a few infield corners. The Sunday morning oildry dustbowl was not a high point, but overall I enjoyed it. You don't get to crank around half of a top-level superspeedway very often.

[John LaRue]

So what did the FF and FB guys think of the circuit? How were the transitions? Safe/Dangerous features?

[dalz]

They built a "funnel" with temporary wall into the gate turn back onto the oval, and you're not going that fast into it, and there was a sharp right/left hairpin on the pavement back there with cones, so my biggest area of concern wasn't too big a deal.

The transition off the oval didn't seem too bad in the FM, but it may have been worse for a more advanced car.

[Dave Harmison]

My Club Ford had no problems with the transitions, but the "button hook" onto the back straight wasn't very fun. In every session it turned into a cone kill-zone and you didn't have to be the one running into the cones to try to dodge the ones others had tossed about. I personally brought two cones back to pit lane neither of which I would call my fault.

This is what they had:


If there was no sea of cones the corner would be way too fast and the impact if you ran wide at track-out would be potentially very bad.


As a first thought, I think a single high "chain" of tires would be an adequate deterrent to clipping the corner too tight and be robust enough to stay put and a standard multi-row tire barrier to stop any car that lost brakes. Before they paved the apron this is functionally what they had, the corner was a medium slow slightly more than 90 degree left.


Anybody else have constructive ideas?

[GT1Vette]

Dave,

Good to see you at Saturday's party, congrats on the win that day, and sorry about the Sunday incident.

Reportedly MIS was prepared to install curbing in the infield prior to the weekend but wasn't sure about the proper locations - now they KNOW where it needs to go!

They (both MIS and WMR) are also very aware of the issues with the entry onto the banking and are looking at better (permanent) options. One suggestion is a quick right-left before getting to the back straight, then having a more gradual 90 (or even 120) degree corner onto the main oval. Granted that would allow even more top end going into Turn One, but I believe most drivers would agree to the trade-off.

[Steve Demeter]

What about tire walls that can be removed lining the outside of the NASCAR barrier.

That would help lessen any impacts and not make the corner silly with cones.

Rigid chicane barriers would IMHO be as bad as bare NASCAR wall.

[G.B.]

What if the circuit was run in the other direction?

[dalz]

Maybe we could keep heading down that inside wall and move the hairpin to the exit of oval T2, with the help of a lot of temporary barriers? It could give it a Homestead feel.

[Dave Harmison]

I really like the course running counter-clockwise like we ran last weekend. The "flow" through the essess this way is really good. We ran the other way in 1992, 1993 and 1994? and it wasn't as good.

Thanks Butch. I had heard MIS was talking curbs and wanted to see where hey really belong, good to hear that is true.

I threw this out because I heard some grumbling among competitors and I would hate for us to walk away from what I think is a very good facility.

[924RACR]

Glad to hear that the curbing is still in the plan...

Now if we can just get a better race schedule next year so I don't have to choose between this and Mid-O! Back-to-back weekends suck...

[GT1Vette]

Now if we can just get a better race schedule next year so I don't have to choose between this and Mid-O! Back-to-back weekends suck...

I sent a note to WMR congratulating them on a great inaugural event and suggested three items to think about for 2014:

1. curbing
2. better entry onto the main oval
3. move away from the Mid-Ohio weekend

I got an immediate response that discussions are already underway about all three.

Granted I'm a cab driver, but I'm enthusiastic about the future possibilities at MIS...

[Jnovak]

The MIS Double Major was a very well run event and Brian, Jeff, myself an the rest of our crew had a very fun weekend.

[Amon]

Move it away from M-O and I'll be there next year!

[Dave Harmison]

Butch, you hit it right squarely on the head, those are the three things to fix.

I'm not a real National driver, but back-to-back Majors is nuts.

[Steve Demeter]

Butch, There is a double majors going on this weekend at MO.

Hope to finally get to meet you in person.

You gonna be here?

[GT1Vette]

Butch, There is a double majors going on this weekend at MO.

Hope to finally get to meet you in person.

You gonna be here?

Butch is at the Majors at NJMP - yet another scheduling conflict we hope to correct in 2014.

Next Thu-Sat is the BoD face-to-face meeting in Topeka where we'll find out if our plan for the Majors going forward is approved. We've learned quite a bit this year and I'm excited about what we can do to make the program even better going forward.

If all goes well I'll be attending (and racing my GTA car in GT2, #67) at the June Sprints, then attending the Portland event July 5-7 before finishing up the Majors season (and driving again) at Gateway August 2-4. Obviously I'll be at the (50th Annual) Runoffs as well. You can find me by looking for the 6'7" guy with the target painted on his back!

BTW - right at 200 cars here at NJMP and around 232 at Mid-Ohio on the same weekend. Not bad at all, but if we can resolve these scheduling conflicts we could be having truly MAJOR weekends at both events.

See y'all at the track...