Custom Fuel Cell

[Deon]

Any suggestions on having a fuel cell fabricated?

Thanks for the help

[ianashdown]

Aero Tech Services in Santa Fe Springs, CA (562) 696-1128

The best I've seen in years. Long way for you but I'd say worth the effort.

Ian

[Dave Gomberg]

If you are having a cell made for a car running in SCCA, you must have a cell that is FiA approved or made by an approved supplier (see GCR 9.3.27). The list of approved suppliers is at http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...0Suppliers.pdf and currently only includes Eagle Fuel Cells.

Dave

[DanW]

Deon,

What model Zink do you have? I have a drawing for a Z-10 behind the seat cell. It holds about 5.3 gallons to the top of the foam.

If you already have a cell, you can send it to one of the suppliers and they can replicate it for you, usually for slightly less than the cost of furnishing a drawing.

Regards,
Dan Wise

[rickb99]

I don't get it. A list of Approved Alternate Fuel Cell Suppliers?? Who are the 'non alternate suppliers'?

If it's a list of 'all alternate suppliers' shouldn't it include people like ATL, Fuel Safe? Also, Pyrotect cells are built to FIA FT3 standards. Why aren't they on the list?

Sounds like a pretty mushy area for SCCA and once again, not clearly defined. This is almost as bad as the 5 year LIFE for cells not being paid ANY ATTENTION to by SCCA.

[Dave Gomberg]

I don't get it. A list of Approved Alternate Fuel Cell Suppliers?? Who are the 'non alternate suppliers'?

If it's a list of 'all alternate suppliers' shouldn't it include people like ATL, Fuel Safe? Also, Pyrotect cells are built to FIA FT3 standards. Why aren't they on the list?

Sounds like a pretty mushy area for SCCA and once again, not clearly defined. This is almost as bad as the 5 year LIFE for cells not being paid ANY ATTENTION to by SCCA.

ATL, Fuel Safe and others that use FIA certification are automatically approved since they meet the requirements of 9.3.27. The list of alternate suppliers (currently just Eagle) is for those who have submitted to SCCA test results that are equivalent to the FIA requirements and have been certified by a PE. This allows a small business to avoid the extreme costs of FIA certification.

Dave

[Wren]

I don't get it. A list of Approved Alternate Fuel Cell Suppliers?? Who are the 'non alternate suppliers'?

If it's a list of 'all alternate suppliers' shouldn't it include people like ATL, Fuel Safe? Also, Pyrotect cells are built to FIA FT3 standards. Why aren't they on the list?

Sounds like a pretty mushy area for SCCA and once again, not clearly defined. This is almost as bad as the 5 year LIFE for cells not being paid ANY ATTENTION to by SCCA.

I disagree. I think that the SCCA has done a good job of being reasonable in the case of the fuel cell situation.

You have two choices:
1. Purchase a fuel cell constructed and certified to FIA specs.
2. Purchase a fuel cell from a company that is constructing to FIA specs and has a PE sign off on the design and testing.

I think that a rule like this will do a good job of making sure that people have safe fuel cells and pay a reasonable price.

Also, I don't think that the SCCA has a five year life on fuel cells.

[HayesCages]

We had Harmon Racing Cells in Cali. build a couple custom bladders this year with no issues. FiA FT3 certification is an added cost but only $25 if I recall correctly.

www.harmonracingcells.com

[Alex Zeller]

I too had Harmon build me a cell for my Citation.

I was very impressed with the result. It even came back cheaper than the quoted price... How often does that happen!

The quality also seemed top notch. And it fit perfectly.

The price was roughly $550. Significantly less than other brands of custom cells I got quotes for.

All the best.

[rickb99]

....Also, I don't think that the SCCA has a five year life on fuel cells.

NO the SCCA does NOT have a life cycle on fuel cells.

THE MANUFACTURERS DO!

[SV@RHC]

My vote would be for Aero Tech Services. Great service and very reasonable prices.

[Fred Michael]

NO the SCCA does NOT have a life cycle on fuel cells.

THE MANUFACTURERS DO!

No, the FIA does.

[rickb99]

Okay, lets try it this way From the ATL web site.

Q How long does a fuel cell bladder last?

A Most ATL racing cells are warranteed for 5 years, which is the legal life span established by most racing organizations.


ATL used to flat state that the life of a cell was five years at which point they wanted it back for recertification for a few more years IF it was in good shape.

Regardless, the rule EXISTS and it's totally ignored by the SCCA and many other sanctioning organizations.

[S Lathrop]

If you have ATL build a cell, make absolutely certain that you and ATL are working from the same understandings. I found that what they built and the drawing that I sent them did not match.

I was not able to get ATL to build cells that fit my cars properly even when I sent them a go-no go container to check the cells in. The fits were so bad that we had to replace cells within a few years. That was more than one car.

Now having said this, the quailty of what they build is excellent. And there have been management changes at ATL so the problems I had may be not be an issue any longer.

[Wren]

Okay, lets try it this way From the ATL web site.

Q How long does a fuel cell bladder last?

A Most ATL racing cells are warranteed for 5 years, which is the legal life span established by most racing organizations.


ATL used to flat state that the life of a cell was five years at which point they wanted it back for recertification for a few more years IF it was in good shape.

Regardless, the rule EXISTS and it's totally ignored by the SCCA and many other sanctioning organizations.

There is no rule. ATL does not make the rule, the SCCA does and they have chosen not to make this a rule. Good for the SCCA. Fuel cells can last much longer than 5 years.

[Marty Nygard]

Actually, FIA says
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]

No fuel bladders shall be used for more than 5 years

after the date of manufacture, unless reinspected and

recertified by the manufacturer at the end of this 5

year period, for a supplementary period of up to 2

years after the date of recertification not exceeding 7

years after the date of manufacture.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] SCCA says the cell must comply with FIA requirements so after the above time periods, the cell is no longer FIA compliant thus is also no longer SCCA compliant. If you want SCCA to recognize the design requirements but not the life cycle limit you should address your concerns to the Club.
Marty

[john f]

Actually, FIA says
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]

No fuel bladders shall be used for more than 5 years

after the date of manufacture, unless reinspected and

recertified by the manufacturer at the end of this 5

year period, for a supplementary period of up to 2

years after the date of recertification not exceeding 7

years after the date of manufacture.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] SCCA says the cell must comply with FIA requirements so after the above time periods, the cell is no longer FIA compliant thus is also no longer SCCA compliant. If you want SCCA to recognize the design requirements but not the life cycle limit you should address your concerns to the Club.
Marty

Be careful for what you ask!

john f

[Mike Devins]

please do not ask!

[rickb99]

Seeing as how we were running two Reynard's with cells over 20 years old, I cannot say I'm a big fan of the rule either.

How I feel about the rule not being enforced is a different question. This is probably the BIGGEST safety device on ANY race car (particularly open wheelers) and to see it so ignored is difficult for me to accept. Some day, maybe not today or this weekend, ignoring this 'recommendation' is going to bite somebody bad.

[BWC54]

Seeing as how we were running two Reynard's with cells over 20 years old,

How I feel about the rule not being enforced is a different question. This is probably the BIGGEST safety device on ANY race car (particularly open wheelers) and to see it so ignored

It's being so ignored by you. No one is forcing you to run cells that are 20 years old. It is your decision. If anyone wants to replace their cells every 5 years no one is stopping them.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

No one in a fuel fire ever says "I'm glad I saved money on that cell."

[Pi_guy]

Seeing as how we were running two Reynard's with cells over 20 years old, I cannot say I'm a big fan of the rule either.

How I feel about the rule not being enforced is a different question. This is probably the BIGGEST safety device on ANY race car (particularly open wheelers) and to see it so ignored is difficult for me to accept. Some day, maybe not today or this weekend, ignoring this 'recommendation' is going to bite somebody bad.

Amazing that somebody would brag about running a 20 year old fuel cell.
Do you alter the fire bottle gauge so it reads good also?

[rickb99]

.....Do you alter the fire bottle gauge so it reads good also?

No but we do stay at Motel 6 when we race at Portland International.

[racerdad2]

I don't believe he was bragging. Just saying how well it held up like so many others have. Some drain them. Some keep them full. Most never let ethanol any where near them. All to prolong their life.

Of course, the proper racer buys an entire new car at the beginning of the season. The rest of us do the best we can with what $$$ we have

[Rick Kirchner]

Rick B - a rule is worthless unless it can be verified. To verify the date would require a "window" in the container so that one could read the date on the cell. The window would leave the cell open to debris intrusion. One could have an inspection plate, but that requires good engineering to prevent the fasteners from chafing the cell.

IMHO opinion, age is less of a problem than some of the poor maintenance overall that I've seen and the smell of gas in the cockpit, along with nasty dirt around the container seams, which should be obvious, but it's amazing how oblivious people are to the issue.

[Pi_guy]

Was always my impression that you need to bring a legal and safe car to an event.
Knowingly violating a rule is not part of the sportsman aspect of racing.
But there are a few clubs that will let you run anything.
I guess that if you do not want to be safe and follow the rules you can ignore what pleases you to save money.

have fun bring marshmallows.

[Jasonrmbell]

Graham Crackers and Chocolate too !

[rickb99]

....IMHO opinion, age is less of a problem than some of the poor maintenance overall that I've seen and the smell of gas in the cockpit, along with nasty dirt around the container seams, which should be obvious, but it's amazing how oblivious people are to the issue.

Have to agree with that completely Rick. At one point I had reason to open up the fuel cell box on one of our Reynards. What I found inside about made me fall over! Twenty years of dirt, oil, fuel and gum. Terrible mess and a ripe place to go up in flames. Had I known would have taken it apart when we bought the cars.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31182

P.S. No smell of fuel coming from the car at ALL.