I just went to a motorcycle race at nhms Labor day weekend. A few of the riders were complaining that the cost of entry fees went up. Then I found out the price went from $60.00 dollars a class to $65.00 a class and that was for practice where you get your times,and then the fastest time gets pole and so forth back thru the grid. for the race and then you race. They also give out trophies thru 5 places. " if there are enough people in the race." I use to race a suzuki in lightweight supersport but that was 10 years ago. I think it was $60.00 back then. Then again on sunday you pay the $60.00 and you get to race again. In another class if you want. I use to race 5 or 6 different classes with the same bike. Some I was not competitive in like my stock bike in superbike but sometimes ,I would get a trophy. What I am getting at is if the bikes can race for $65.00 a day why is it so much more for the cars. Do we do more damage to the track? Does anyone have any Idea's why were at $325.00 and up? For SCCA Just tossing it out there. Thanks for any replies Pete Cheney fv #06
[FONT=Times New Roman]Back in the day, when 30-35 car fields were the norm, we could race in Canada at Mosport, in the old Bulova series … for 25 bucks Canadian you not only got to race ... but could get a pit crew of three others working as a supporting race for a number of events in the early seventies … I raced in that series at Jackie Stewart’s last F1 race … saw Mark Donohue and the “panzer” Porsches in the Can Am, and the Trans Am to boot … but then again that was in the day … but to your point … entry frees have gone up but they now have “Life-Flight and with tort attorneys stalking everything I'm surprised it that cheap … Just my two cents worth. [/FONT]
Last edited by Reddog; September 3rd, 2012 at 8:40 AM.
Reason: errata [sp]
I am glad we have med flight and all the wonderful workers and safety people at the track. At the louden road race series for motorcycles they had all that too. One thing I did see is how many times the ambulance people went to the hospital with injured riders. They seem to have someone enroute at all times. That was the main reason I quit racing bikes. So far I have been racing cars again for 3 years. I have not needed a ride to the hospital,and hope I don't but when I raced bikes I went more often. Just think every time you spin, or slide your car. On a bike that usually means your on the ground sometimes that means pick it up and go, but many times it is while flying thru the air for 80 feet and thinking to your self "this is gonna hurt".I have a great friend who I have tried to get into a formula vee and He is gonna start road racing a bike again next year, because he really can't afford to race a car.They even pay out money $200.00 for a win for tire money and all the tire brands do it $150.00 for second and $100.00 for third even in the amature classes the experts have a" dash for cash" race and that has over a $1500.00 dollar purse some of the better riders take money home for there week end at the track And they are complaining that they are losing people because of the costs of racing. With Formula vee the only competitive tire is hoosier so no incentive to have money for using there tire.Sorry for rambling just tossing it out there Pete Cheney fv#06
Pete - you're exactly right. I sold off my FV this year not because the car was too expensive, but I couldn't justify the cost to run the car.
I've said it before, but it makes no sense to me that other forms of racing (cycles, oval track, drag) can (a) have paying spectators and (b) have low entry fees and (c) pay purses. My Godson races sprint cars. He's a low budget saturday night racer. As long as he makes it into the Main on saturday night he's covered his entry fee and gas for the night. If he gets a top 3 he might make enough to get some tires too. He's not going to make a living at it, but I was kinda shocked when we compared notes and it cost me more to race an FST car for 5 weekend than it cost him to race a sprint for the whole season. (out of pocket operating costs - not capital cost for the machine or major crash damage).
There has to be a way to bring the cost of road racing down. I think spectators and promotion is one way to get there.
My two cents
__________________
Bob Stack, Hartland, WI
CenDiv - Milwaukee region
We need to look at the actual costs to run a race. When you know those costs, you can then figure out if we are getting raped or not.
How much does it cost to rent the track? How much for the safety crew? Workers? Insurance? Someone out there has to be able to get us pretty close to those numbers. Then we add up what we pay in entry fees and see where we are.
I also raced motorcycles with WERA and CCS and the contingency money was nice. It pretty much paid for your tires if you were good. I was much younger then and didnt mind the risk, but now with all the responsibilities of a family, its not worth it. Ive also run micro sprints and karts so I have a pretty good base to compare racing costs. The costs to run a formula car are unreal. Parts are incredibly expensive. It seems like every part costs $400+. Heaven forbid you wreck a corner of your car. You could be looking at $2500 per corner to put it back together. I know they are low volume pieces, but it seems like they cost 10x what parts for other types of racing run. Engine costs are also pretty high. When a used FF1600 engine costs the same as brand new TAG kart or slightly used top of the line shifter kart, its pretty expensive. I just bought a FF1600 and the costs of prepping it for my first race is already higher than what I spent in a whole year of kart racing. This was on big tracks like Blackhawk Farms and Road America, not running your local sprint track. It had a little crash damage when I bought it so I knew going in it wasnt race ready, but when you add up the parts, the costs climb quickly.
The cost to enter my first race are $550. This does not include any other cost than the fees to race. Gas, tires, food and the rest will just add to it. Im not complaining, as I knew this when I got into it, but it will keep me from racing as much as I would like which also hurts the promoters and clubs that run the races.
There has to be a way to bring the cost of road racing down. I think spectators and promotion is one way to get there.
You are correct. As long as we have 30-ish classes running in 6 different race groups over an entire weekend with cars spread out all over the track it'll never happen.
It seems like every part costs $400+. Heaven forbid you wreck a corner of your car. You could be looking at $2500 per corner to put it back together. I know they are low volume pieces, but it seems like they cost 10x what parts for other types of racing run. Engine costs are also pretty high. When a used FF1600 engine costs the same as brand new TAG kart or slightly used top of the line shifter kart, its pretty expensive. I just bought a FF1600 and the costs of prepping it for my first race is already higher than what I spent in a whole year of kart racing. This was on big tracks like Blackhawk Farms and Road America, not running your local sprint track. It had a little crash damage when I bought it so I knew going in it wasnt race ready, but when you add up the parts, the costs climb quickly.
My experience has been a bit different. Karts (Sprint), Club Ford and FV all cost me the same amount per season (every penny I budgeted )...the difference was the buy-in costs, how many races per season and where I was in the finishing order.
It is the same here in the UK
My liccle brother races motorbikes and he can do 1 day meeting quali and 2 races for £75
and the 2nd days meeting is a bit less if he has raced the day before
My FFord race at Brands is quali =10 mins then later 15 minute race entry fee £250
Then I can also race my F3 car in 15 minute race with 10-15 min quail double header meeting at £350 for the 2 days
All of this is aside of the tow car and race car fuel
Over here in UK/ EEC its now down to track time per minute use of circuit
SO if you want 30 minute race it will cost the organiser/promotor more money than 10 lapper
There are many costs that have risen over the years
1 Circuit owner fees= These are now the single highest cost
2 Third party Insurance= the next highest riser thanks to lawyers and no win no fee society
3 National sporting organiser fee- they do very little yet command a daily fee
4 Lap timers- modern technology costs more
5 medical crew doctors
6 recovery trucks
7 many helpers are now paid not volunteers
In the UK the meeting is 1 overall cost then divided into race fee costs base don say 15 car grid cost to break even but if you had 25 car grid there is not a reduction in entry fee cost per bum in seat
Its time clubs complained to circuit owners the fee is too high and cut the number of races then circuit owner might get the message
Then organising club needs to merge classes to fill the grid balance the books offer racer reduced entry fee
all round it should be a win win situation but the circuit owner will be stubborn as will the organising club
SO end result is customer votes with their feet and stay at home
By the time the penny has dropped its too late customer will not come back and no new blood joins the race scene
Best thing is to complain now to your organising club championship promotor and get all your buddies on side to complain too to get the message across
I just went to a motorcycle race at nhms Labor day weekend. A few of the riders were complaining that the cost of entry fees went up. Then I found out the price went from $60.00 dollars a class to $65.00 a class and that was for practice where you get your times,and then the fastest time gets pole and so forth back thru the grid. for the race and then you race. They also give out trophies thru 5 places. " if there are enough people in the race." I use to race a suzuki in lightweight supersport but that was 10 years ago. I think it was $60.00 back then. Then again on sunday you pay the $60.00 and you get to race again. In another class if you want. I use to race 5 or 6 different classes with the same bike. Some I was not competitive in like my stock bike in superbike but sometimes ,I would get a trophy. What I am getting at is if the bikes can race for $65.00 a day why is it so much more for the cars. Do we do more damage to the track? Does anyone have any Idea's why were at $325.00 and up? For SCCA Just tossing it out there. Thanks for any replies Pete Cheney fv #06
I was just at the track today Peter as a few buddies race bikes. Yes it's $65 a race but a race only consists of 8 laps. If you compare to what we get it's very similar we may even get a better deal with 3 crew and the Saturday "slop" I mean dinner ;-) not to mention every time someone goes down its time off the clock, both ambulances had to leave and everyone stood around for 30 min
I stopped racing bikes 3-4 years ago and started racing cars. I was sick of (many multiple serious) injuries. You make one slight mistake on a bike and it's game over. When I was younger I didn't care and ran balls to the wall, once you get older that stops but it really kills you inside that you aren't running 110%. Cars are much more fun and satisfying for one reason: they are much much more forgiving. You can run a car full blast the entire time out. OK now here is the bad part: cars are ten times more expensive and you get less than half the track time. . On a bike I pay a professional crew $150 a day (they run 5-7 bikes at a time), my tires are $400 and literally last several weekends at race pace. You just about can't run every session in a full day because you put in so many laps you are exhausted. You can fix just about anything on a bike with a couple of hundred bucks and duct tape. So I got back into bikes this year, now I get my fill doing both. I try to run the car at around once every 1-2 month and the bike around the same. I've become a better bike rider because I've concentrated on being smooth and keep a consistant 85% pace. I think It also makes my car driving better.
Bottom line: cars are stupid expensive and there is nothing you can do about it. If you are like me you are addicted to racing and have no choice but to fork up the cash. If you want to balance it out try doing what I do and run both cars and bikes. (does that make sense? did I just tell you to spent even more money?) I told you I was addicted.....
General Formula Car Discussion
cost of racing up from $60.00 to $65.00 per class
)...the difference was the buy-in costs, how many races per season and where I was in the finishing order.
. On a bike I pay a professional crew $150 a day (they run 5-7 bikes at a time), my tires are $400 and literally last several weekends at race pace. You just about can't run every session in a full day because you put in so many laps you are exhausted. You can fix just about anything on a bike with a couple of hundred bucks and duct tape. So I got back into bikes this year, now I get my fill doing both. I try to run the car at around once every 1-2 month and the bike around the same. I've become a better bike rider because I've concentrated on being smooth and keep a consistant 85% pace. I think It also makes my car driving better. 
