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Thread: Tires - Again

  1. #241
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    Default tires again

    I wish that I could see the virtue of this exercise, but unfortunately I can't.
    Even if you get a Hoosier R60 spec tire approved for SCCA that still leaves alot of cars and owners circulating outside this universe.
    Buddy will probably stand firm on his belief that the American Racers are the best.
    Canada will continue to run the Toyos in their series if manufacturer support is continued.
    Vintage will have the monoposto rules and mandate Dunlops and now Avons as there is supply issues with availability of Dunlops.
    Until the day when the leaders of all the sanctioning groups and interested manufacturers sit down to decide the matter you will have fragmented groups with different tires.
    This will take someone to reach out and bring all parties together on this matter.
    Maybe a tire manufacturer with the most to gain by increased sales across the US is the logical choice to start the dialogue.
    We saw this happen with Honda.
    They wanted to have a presence in FF and look at the end result.
    I sat on an ad hoc committee for engines for over a year and I don't recall the Honda even being mentioned as an option at the time.
    I think that tires is a solveable problem with the right leadership taking the bull by the horns.
    Greg Kokolus
    PRS RH-01

  2. #242
    Contributing Member Steve Bamford's Avatar
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    Greg,

    All or most of the organizations you pointed out run a spec tire. SCCA Club is the only one who is missing.

    Why complicate things when, for what it seems based on posters here, FF drivers are asking for a spec tire.

    Yes there is some debate as to what it should be, some for Toyo's, some have inquired about others however most have agreed a Hoosier R60 which is run in CFF currently makes the most sense.

    The way I see your post is the issue with the SCCA compared to other series is they allow currently an open tire policy.
    Steve Bamford

  3. #243
    Contributing Member Tom Valet's Avatar
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    Greg, for now you will never get all sanctioning bodies to agree on one tire for the simple reason that Canadian F1600 series is sponsored by Toyo and US Pro F1600 is sponsored by Hoosier. They have contracts with those companies.

    You may see this as pointless but as Steve points out this is a step in the right direction.

    The goal is to get a spec tire rule in place, and use 2015 to test what the best long term option is for the class.

    Dont forget that Hoosier has offered to make an all new FF tire if they are given the spec tire contract for SCCA. Starting with a clean sheet of paper, imagine what they can come up with, not being handicapped by the cantilever and being able to make any compound they want.

  4. #244
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    Default tires again

    Hi Steve
    I guess I was trying to say in my convoluted way was why can't all the sanctioning bodies agree on one common tire at the non-pro level.
    Don't you think it would be nice to be able to run with any group and not have to consider this issue.
    Regards,
    Greg

  5. #245
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    Default tires again

    If Hoosier is willing to start with a clean sheet of paper for a design, why not think outside the box and see if there could be common ground that everyone could agree with.
    As to the issue with Canada and the US, contracts only last so long and the manufacturer willing to pony up the best deal could take in both countries.
    I'd say having the spec tire concession for FF in both would be worth someones time.
    Regards,
    Greg

  6. #246
    Contributing Member Steve Bamford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRS56 View Post
    Hi Steve
    I guess I was trying to say in my convoluted way was why can't all the sanctioning bodies agree on one common tire at the non-pro level.
    Don't you think it would be nice to be able to run with any group and not have to consider this issue.
    Regards,
    Greg
    Greg,

    I agree with you 100% but for that to ever happen first SCCA Club has to adopt a spec tire rule first & foremost.

    The one we have mentioned is likely the only one we have a chance of getting the SCCA to agree to. Once that happens then we can look further down the line.
    Steve Bamford

  7. #247
    Contributing Member problemchild's Avatar
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    Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
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  8. #248
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    Default

    Written.

  9. #249
    Senior Member Joe Marcinski's Avatar
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    Default Tires - Again

    Request written and submitted.

  10. #250
    Contributing Member Roux's Avatar
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    Default Phase 1

    I understand Greg's points, but at the same time also ask for a UN that can arbitrate a peace treaty in a civil war.

    The main and only focus right now should be to move the SCCA FF cars to a hard compound spec tire for Jan 1st 2015. This stands to benefit the largest number of FF owners in North America.

    Sidebar:
    Last year I ran with FRCCA and they welcomed me on soft tires. There are probably very few drivers if any trying to win an SCCA and FRCCA championship at the same time and those few folks are unfortunately going to have to own two sets of spec tires (if we get R60's into SCCA). Their tire problem , believe it or not, actually gets better! On the SCCA side they have a hard, not open, tire rule if we get this done. I believe that the car setup changes between R60 and American Racers will be less drastic than R35's and American Racers
    Last edited by Roux; 08.18.14 at 5:22 PM.

  11. #251
    Contributing Member Roux's Avatar
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    Default Motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by PRS56 View Post
    Hi Steve
    I guess I was trying to say in my convoluted way was why can't all the sanctioning bodies agree on one common tire at the non-pro level.
    Don't you think it would be nice to be able to run with any group and not have to consider this issue.
    Regards,
    Greg
    Greg,
    the vintage guys have no problem to solve. They have large and growing fields of FF and CF cars on DunAvons

    The Canadian guys have no problem to solve, they have large fields and a title sponsor supplying the hard wearing tire their guys like racing on.

    So neither of those entities have a real problem on their hands so their motivation is almost zero

    If those guys were both specifying the 'Gumball Z 1200" tire then our decision here on the outside would be trivial. Specify the Gumball for all FF cars in SCCA races

    As it is we don't have this option on the table at this time, so we have to work on an independent solution at least for the foreseeable future

    Steve

  12. #252
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    Default tires again

    Hi Steve:
    Not to beat a dead horse on this issue, but in regard to your statement about both the vintage and Canadian series doing well, what is the common denominator?
    They are both running treaded tires. You can add the Arizona race series to the list.
    Why is there this insistance on SCCA staying with slicks when it runs counter to the other groups?
    Remember when Mike got the Dunlops approved for the NARRC series and they received a luke warm reception in the NE?
    I wish I had listened.
    I've been running them in vintage the last 3 years and I really love them.
    I buy castoffs with unknown provenance from a prep shop in Canada and they are performing well.
    I also like the idea that I can go out in wet but drying conditions and not worry about chunking a good set of rains.
    I won't lie to you, if it is full wet then you may want maximum tread depth that a new(er) tire brings.
    All the best
    Greg

  13. #253
    Contributing Member Roux's Avatar
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    Default I hear you

    Greg, Hi.

    Other than Rand I think I crowed the loudest to put Dunlops in the NE CF rules. Look back at my posts a few years ago.

    I disagree with your statement that it is treaded tires in Canada and Vintage that make it work. Are you telling me that if Vintage CF had to run R60's or American Racers that would be it! None of you guys would show up? I think it is a spec durable tire rule that is helping. they just happen to have treads

  14. #254
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    The Dunlops allow club Fords and pre-'73 (classic) Fords to mix it up at many tracks, allowing for more on track battles than would otherwise happen. Different set of circumstances IMHO.

  15. #255
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    Default Dunlops

    From what I understand the Dunlops are no longer available so any discussions about then are not productive. Lets limit discussion to tires that are available (and hopefully remain so).

    Ed

  16. #256
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    Are the UK spec Avon ACB10 tires available here? They would seem to fit the bill to me.
    Last edited by SEComposites; 11.25.15 at 9:07 PM.

  17. #257
    Senior Member Raceworks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roux View Post
    I understand Greg's points, but at the same time also ask for a UN that can arbitrate a peace treaty in a civil war.

    The main and only focus right now should be to move the SCCA FF cars to a hard compound spec tire for Jan 1st 2015. This stands to benefit the largest number of FF owners in North America.
    Agreed, and letter written.
    Sam Lockwood
    Raceworks, Inc
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  18. #258
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    Default tires again

    Hi Steve:
    I was never trying to make the correlation that treaded tires contribute to the success of the vintage ranks and Canada series.
    I would run whatever Monoposto rules tell me to.
    I can't begin to tell you why the vintage ranks are growing, but they are.
    My point is that if the SCCA is late to the party in mandating a spec tire, that we follow the lead of the other groups and ask for something that would allow the most amount of FF's, CF's and vintage FF cars to run with any group at any event.
    I do think that this is a threaded tire from whatever manufacturer is willing to provide in the amounts necessary for the US and Canada.
    Ed is correct in that the Dunlops are having a supply issue.
    The Avon has now been approved as well by Monoposto rules.
    All the best
    Greg

  19. #259
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    Default Tires Again and Again!

    Guys,

    I am new to this latest tire argument but not new to the problem. Tire costs drove me out of FF racing in 1982.

    I just returned to this great sport a year ago and I am slightly more affluent than in 1982 but I still have the same mind set. That I would sooner drive more races on longer lasting rubber than less races at a slightly faster pace. AND, and a big AND, I prefer larger fields with close racing. I don't care about the mixed classes as long as we are all open wheel. In fact the competition being offered by the F5 and F6s are going to make it more fun to race in the FF class because they are running similar lap times. Even if we are not in the same class it is still racing for overall position. More competition and more fun will bring out more cars!

    I have a DB1 with a Honda engine, I cannot believe how much cheaper and easier it is to run a car with this engine vs my old Van Dieman RF79 Ford! Now lets solve the tire issue.

    So I am in favor of harder compound slicks like the R45 or R60.

    Is it possible for me or 10 racers ie. minimum order number, to simply order the R45 or R60 compound tires from Hoosier? If so I think I might just order a set and try them on regional fun weekends.

    Now down to the nitty gritty. We have been discussing this topic ad naseum, lets hold a referendum for our region like they did in the west and then present the findings to the SCCA regional office. You will never get the whole country to agree, there are just too many people.
    The SCCA are not the enemy, they are duly elected people representing us. If we organize and present a united front with an intelligent argument they will have to listen to us. If not we elect someone who will listen like EJ!

    If it is possible for us as racers to simply order the harder tires lets just start using them, that simple. Or maybe I am over simplifying the problem, maybe Hoosier will not build and sell the harder tires in small numbers. If not lets consider another tire that is available. Again as was already mentioned in a previous post, if the tires last so long do we really need track side support?

    In any case lets hold a vote in the SE Division and move forward. Anything else is just a waste of time! I am 57 and plan to race until I am 80 so I only have 23 years left!

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartley View Post
    Guys,

    I am new to this latest tire argument but not new to the problem. Tire costs drove me out of FF racing in 1982.

    I just returned to this great sport a year ago and I am slightly more affluent than in 1982 but I still have the same mind set. That I would sooner drive more races on longer lasting rubber than less races at a slightly faster pace. AND, and a big AND, I prefer larger fields with close racing. I don't care about the mixed classes as long as we are all open wheel. In fact the competition being offered by the F5 and F6s are going to make it more fun to race in the FF class because they are running similar lap times. Even if we are not in the same class it is still racing for overall position. More competition and more fun will bring out more cars!

    I have a DB1 with a Honda engine, I cannot believe how much cheaper and easier it is to run a car with this engine vs my old Van Dieman RF79 Ford! Now lets solve the tire issue.

    So I am in favor of harder compound slicks like the R45 or R60.

    Is it possible for me or 10 racers ie. minimum order number, to simply order the R45 or R60 compound tires from Hoosier? If so I think I might just order a set and try them on regional fun weekends.

    Now down to the nitty gritty. We have been discussing this topic ad naseum, lets hold a referendum for our region like they did in the west and then present the findings to the SCCA regional office. You will never get the whole country to agree, there are just too many people.
    The SCCA are not the enemy, they are duly elected people representing us. If we organize and present a united front with an intelligent argument they will have to listen to us. If not we elect someone who will listen like EJ!

    If it is possible for us as racers to simply order the harder tires lets just start using them, that simple. Or maybe I am over simplifying the problem, maybe Hoosier will not build and sell the harder tires in small numbers. If not lets consider another tire that is available. Again as was already mentioned in a previous post, if the tires last so long do we really need track side support?

    In any case lets hold a vote in the SE Division and move forward. Anything else is just a waste of time! I am 57 and plan to race until I am 80 so I only have 23 years left!
    I don't think writing the CRB is a "waste of time", especially since it only takes a couple of minutes.

    And no, it's not an over-simplification to just come up with a "gentelman's agreement" and we're certainly free to do whatever we want right now: I haven't run anything softer than R45 on the Spectrums (or is it Spectra?). I haven't had any trouble acquiring them, either.

    I think the selling point for Hoosier (or anyone else) would be that while they might sell fewer tires per car individually it would even out long term if it leads to more entries.
    Sam Lockwood
    Raceworks, Inc
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  21. #261
    Contributing Member Roux's Avatar
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    Default Gentlemen's Agreement in writing

    We are asking for exactly that. A gentleman's agreement.

    But how much more valuable it would be if it were in writing, in a place we can all find it (to remind us what we actually agreed to) and where if the majority decide it needs an amendment we can make such an amendment, again in writing including a history of change control. So please get on board and make this happen for FF cars at SCCA races to go to the R60 Hoosier dry tire as spec. The FRCCA, CF's, VCF's and VFF's have tire supply problems if they are on Dunlops, but none of them appear to have an annual tire cost problem. The FF's have a severe annual tire cost problem and this effort is intended to address that problem. ASAP
    Last edited by Roux; 08.21.14 at 9:37 PM.

  22. #262
    Contributing Member Roux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRS56 View Post
    Hi Steve:

    I would run whatever Monoposto rules tell me to.

    Greg
    Greg, all due respect, but if Monoposto tomorrow gave the VCF an open tire rule, someone would likely head to the R35's and you would be at a huge performance disadvantage. You like Monoposto's tire rule because the tires are giving you a level enough playing field with an acceptable annual tire cost. FF is currently on the opposite end of the scale and at least some of us want to move towards a better balance of performance and cost, perceived at this time to likely be achieved with an R60A Hoosier.

    Steve

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartley View Post
    Guys,

    I am new to this latest tire argument but not new to the problem. Tire costs drove me out of FF racing in 1982.

    I just returned to this great sport a year ago and I am slightly more affluent than in 1982 but I still have the same mind set. That I would sooner drive more races on longer lasting rubber than less races at a slightly faster pace. AND, and a big AND, I prefer larger fields with close racing. I don't care about the mixed classes as long as we are all open wheel. In fact the competition being offered by the F5 and F6s are going to make it more fun to race in the FF class because they are running similar lap times. Even if we are not in the same class it is still racing for overall position. More competition and more fun will bring out more cars!

    I have a DB1 with a Honda engine, I cannot believe how much cheaper and easier it is to run a car with this engine vs my old Van Dieman RF79 Ford! Now lets solve the tire issue.

    So I am in favor of harder compound slicks like the R45 or R60.

    Is it possible for me or 10 racers ie. minimum order number, to simply order the R45 or R60 compound tires from Hoosier? If so I think I might just order a set and try them on regional fun weekends.

    Now down to the nitty gritty. We have been discussing this topic ad naseum, lets hold a referendum for our region like they did in the west and then present the findings to the SCCA regional office. You will never get the whole country to agree, there are just too many people.
    The SCCA are not the enemy, they are duly elected people representing us. If we organize and present a united front with an intelligent argument they will have to listen to us. If not we elect someone who will listen like EJ!

    If it is possible for us as racers to simply order the harder tires lets just start using them, that simple. Or maybe I am over simplifying the problem, maybe Hoosier will not build and sell the harder tires in small numbers. If not lets consider another tire that is available. Again as was already mentioned in a previous post, if the tires last so long do we really need track side support?

    In any case lets hold a vote in the SE Division and move forward. Anything else is just a waste of time! I am 57 and plan to race until I am 80 so I only have 23 years left!
    To answer your question, yes, you can go out and buy a set of R60's right now.

    Front are Hoosier catalog number 43-130R60A and rears are 43-307R60A

    Latest prices are $142 per tire for fronts, and $171 per tire for rears.
    Will Velkoff
    Van Diemen RF00 / Honda FF

  24. #264
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    Sportsfans,

    I do know that the powers-to-be in SCCA Club are listening.
    There is a plan forming to gather member input, etc. My guess is that if you own or race a FF you may even be contacted for your input sooner than later.
    But, lets be clear, a rule change of this magnitude will not be in place for 2015. There is just not enough time. There are considerable hurdles between concept and a hard rule.
    Trust me on that.

    It never hurts to write letters to the CRB. Every one is read. Those letters have more impact than rants on social media.

    There are many things to consider; let's go over a few:

    1. Designs and compounds have to be evaluated.
    2. Support channels (trackside, etc) have to be evaluated.
    3. Decisions have to be made as to whether contingency programs are going to be required or not.
    4. A decision has to be made based on member input.
    5. The chosen supplier has to have time to ramp up inventory and supply chain.
    6. Will there be a "tire rule" as to the number to be used per race, or weekend? Who will enforce it?

    At best it will be January 2016.


    One cool thing is that a lot of great experience has been built up due to the F1600CS pro series. That series has been running a bias tire with basically a 45 compound with great results. Because of that series, more testing and development is being done for tires for that series. So more is being learned than at any time in the last two decades. There is some talk that maybe a non-cantilever tire will be developed for the pro series in 2015, solving many fitment issues on older chassis. Lets say that works for 2015 in the pros... it could be available in 2016 for the Club. Just saying. A lighter/narrower sidewall rear tire might make it easier for the 'skinny rear' guys to accept as a change. Remember those club members have invested a lot of money developing new suspensions just for the skinny rears. They are not going to like a forced change.

    Another thing all of you must consider... a harder tire is going to spread the field out. Trust me on this. When you put everybody on hard tires the kids and super fast guys go confidently on very quickly with a tire with a LOT of slip. The rest of the field slows down because they are uncomfortable with a tire that slips a lot at the hairy edge. Some will even leave the class because of the discomfort they will experience trying to keep pace. Instead of a 2.5 second covering a field, it is going to be more like 4 seconds. We have seen this when the top guys show up in a CF race on R60s. We have even seen it in the pro series the last 3 years. So... be careful what you wish for. Hard tires do not 'even up the field'. They might lower tire costs on race weekend, but they don't even up the field.

    Just saying....


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    If you can't drive a Formula Ford sideways, you can't drive a Formula Ford. : )

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    Contributing Member problemchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post


    Just saying....

    Yes, all that applies for a long-term FF spec tire.

    That is why we need to keep asking for the 60a to be mandated for 2015. Hoosier has the system in place and the flexibility to make it happen. No contingency, no tire-marking, no tire-counting is required for a one year deal for 60a tires.

    The only obstacle is the SCCA process, which is why we need letters to put pressure on these people to get it done.
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  27. #267
    Contributing Member Steve Bamford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
    Yes, all that applies for a long-term FF spec tire.

    That is why we need to keep asking for the 60a to be mandated for 2015. Hoosier has the system in place and the flexibility to make it happen. No contingency, no tire-marking, no tire-counting is required for a one year deal for 60a tires.

    The only obstacle is the SCCA process, which is why we need letters to put pressure on these people to get it done.
    Agreed

    Letters to:
    http://www.crbscca.com/
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    The only way I see it being done by 2015 is a massive letter campaign in which all the letters agree on one plan. Something that has never happened in the history of SCCA letter writing.

    SFR is going to scream for the Toyo. Some areas of the East will scream for the 30 year old All American Racer design. There will not be a unanimous member input.

    The Club powers-to-be would have to drop any mandatory contingency requirement, and be willing to just play King and declare one winner without a RFP or evaluation to move forward that fast. Even in that case, the purple people would need to be told soon in order to ramp up inventory. There is still a lot of hand labor building race tires. Hundreds are not built over night.

    Then you have to consider the lawsuits to be filed by the "losers" for restraint of trade...

    If I were King, it would be easy. That is why I enjoyed working 7 years with the pro series.


  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frog View Post
    Hard tires do not 'even up the field'. They might lower tire costs on race weekend, but they don't even up the field.
    I still say they lessen the difference between cars. They accentuate the difference between drivers. That's all to the good.
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  30. #270
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    Letter to CRB submitted requesting the R60 starting 01/15

  31. #271
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    Money and more talent are the 2 biggest factors in evening the field. Racing costs
    money. A spec tire allows us to spend our racing money wisely (oxymoron intended). Anyone thinking a spec tire levels the field is misguided. Faster drivers, for the most part, will still be faster

  32. #272
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    I've been running 45s since I tried them in the first F1600 Pro race, cut my tire cost almost in half, and I've slowed down, but I've also learned more about driving. Taking another step down to R60s probably would further accentuate my lack of ....uhmmm, "courage" entering fast turns, and highlight the fast guy's skill, so maybe not good for my ego, but it will teach me more than racing against cubic dollars ever did. As for spreading out the field, that is not desirable, but if it thickens the field, it will be less of an issue. The fast guys will race the fast guys, and the slow guys will race the slow guys, but if more people are out there, then both groups will have more competition. The CF guys would be closer to the FF guys and that might mitigate the spreading effect too.
    POINT 2: There is no issue with your local group of racers deciding to go to the R60 [without requiring anyone's approval], and I think The Jacksons and I are going to do that next year. I suspect we will have one or two others who agree to play by local rules [what's the point of "winning" if you are running better tires?] but can Hoosier supply enough R60s if a whole bunch of us decide to switch next year?
    POINT 3: I am still a fan of EJ's "R60 in an R45 mold" idea, myself. Since that isn't available yet, I plan to try R60s next spring.
    POINT 4: Or maybe QUESTION 1: For the skinny rear tire group, any reason they can't run R60 fronts on the rear too?
    Jim
    Swift DB-1
    Talent usually ends up in front, but fun goes from the front of the grid all the way to the back.

  33. #273
    Contributing Member swiftdrivr's Avatar
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    "There is some talk that maybe a non-cantilever tire will be developed for the pro series in 2015, solving many fitment issues on OLDER CHASSIS"
    Like the 2012 cars? That series looks like a new car showroom, Mike! I just watch and drool.
    Jim
    Swift DB-1
    Talent usually ends up in front, but fun goes from the front of the grid all the way to the back.

  34. #274
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    Sorry I don't get it, I guess I have been out of the loop too long.

    Why do all the classes such as SRF have to agree with us? If they want Toyos that is a much larger change in infrastructure than simply changing the compound of the same manufacturer. Let them lobby for their own changes, they are a huge group! If they see our positive results with the R60s they would probably fall in line with us anyway.

    If it is not difficult to just simply order R60 tires (as confirmed in a previous post) and these are still a Hoosier brand and Hoosier is still coming to the track anyway why can we (those who want to change in FF) not just order the R60 tires and start racing on them at the club level to begin with? Hey Formula One has a choice of several tire compounds!

    If enough drivers change to R60s it will become a pretty hollow victory for those who continue to use R35s to win races. Maybe we can have an asterisk put next to their results like home runs hit on steroids!

    Another thing, not every FF driver is reading these posts especially the disenchanted. To get the best result of a survey or vote can we not just email every FF driver past and present on the Apex data base and ask them their opinion? ie Do you still have your car and would you come back if there was a tire change? Maybe we would see a resurgence of garage ornaments and autocrossers back where they belong on a proper race track.

    I just put my request in to the CRB for R60's.

  35. #275
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
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    SFR was a reference to San Francisco Region....


  36. #276
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    OOPS too vain to wear my reading glasses! Anyway I think I made my point!

  37. #277
    Contributing Member marshall9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ric baribeault View Post
    Money and more talent are the 2 biggest factors in evening the field. Racing costs
    money. A spec tire allows us to spend our racing money wisely (oxymoron intended). Anyone thinking a spec tire levels the field is misguided. Faster drivers, for the most part, will still be faster
    I concur, in part. Faster drivers will still be faster, but slower cars with faster drivers will be more competitive. Also, more cars, faster or slower is good for the class. The cool thing is, that maybe faster drivers in older equipment will be more competitive, and come out more. Some lower budget "Fast Guys" can afford a trophy too.

  38. #278
    Contributing Member marshall9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartley View Post
    Sorry I don't get it, I guess I have been out of the loop too long.

    Why do all the classes such as SRF have to agree with us? If they want Toyos that is a much larger change in infrastructure than simply changing the compound of the same manufacturer. Let them lobby for their own changes, they are a huge group! If they see our positive results with the R60s they would probably fall in line with us anyway.

    If it is not difficult to just simply order R60 tires (as confirmed in a previous post) and these are still a Hoosier brand and Hoosier is still coming to the track anyway why can we (those who want to change in FF) not just order the R60 tires and start racing on them at the club level to begin with? Hey Formula One has a choice of several tire compounds!

    If enough drivers change to R60s it will become a pretty hollow victory for those who continue to use R35s to win races. Maybe we can have an asterisk put next to their results like home runs hit on steroids!

    Another thing, not every FF driver is reading these posts especially the disenchanted. To get the best result of a survey or vote can we not just email every FF driver past and present on the Apex data base and ask them their opinion? ie Do you still have your car and would you come back if there was a tire change? Maybe we would see a resurgence of garage ornaments and autocrossers back where they belong on a proper race track.

    I just put my request in to the CRB for R60's.

  39. #279
    Contributing Member Tom Valet's Avatar
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    Revealed at this weekend's Pro race at Thompson:

    Hoosier will develop a non-cantelevered, harder tire for the Pro series. The aim is to have the tire available for testing later this year with the goal of using it in 2015 in the Pro series if there is positive feedback from testing.

    As far as implementing an FF tire rule for SCCA club racing, there are some very well respected people inside SCCA with lots of FF experience and a lot of influence in the class working on our behalf to try to make this happen. However, for a host of logistical reasons, it is unlikely that a club racing spec tire rule can be approved for 2015. There is simply not enough time before the next season to jump through all the necessary hoops. Also, with the development of a new Pro tire it is probably wiser to let that type of tire prove itself in the Pro series and then seek to expand its use into club racing.

    Personally, I view everything that is happening as positive news. Things are moving in the right direction. People should continue to make their wishes for (or against) a spec tire known to the CRB and the Board of Directors to keep the pressure on and not let this fall to the back burner.

  40. #280
    Contributing Member BWC54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Valet View Post
    Revealed at this weekend's Pro race at Thompson:

    Hoosier will develop a non-cantelevered, harder tire for the Pro series.
    What will the width be? Being non-cantilevered can it still be run on a 5.5" wide wheel?
    Crossle 32F, Piper DF5 Honda

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