Electric cars

[Agamble5]

I have a 60 mile freeway commute and was thinking of buying an electric car.

Has anyone here had any experiences with electric cars?

Do they lease these things? How long does a battery last at 75 MPH?

How do they work in freezing weather?

Thanks

Andrew

[BGG]

Before we fall down a rabbit hole of Electric car hate....

Your question is to broad. There are far to many types and levels of electric cars to answer your questions without make and model specifics.
It is like asking how fast is a formula car....?

There are cars sold that will do what you want, but be carful on your consumer research.

A little hint, Don't buy a Nissan Leaf!

[Chris Livengood]

My experience is limited to Tesla stuff. I don't think a 60 miles commute would be any issue. They work like a car for the most part. They make warm air, which reduces range, but for 60 miles you'd be fine.

I see you are in Pittsburgh, I am too. There has been a serious increase in the number of charging stations, but it's still limited. So a bit more planning is needed for travel.

Car prices are ridiculous right now. There's probably never been a better time to buy new since used cars are off the charts expensive. I was offered more than twice what I owe on my SportWagen for a trade in. The problem is that a comparable car is currently twice what I paid for my SportWagen.

[chrisw52]

I don't have any experience (yet) but my friends (and fellow autocrosser's) love their model 3 with the performance pack. that car performs so well in autocross, the SCCA classed it in Super Stock, competing against the corvette z06, Porsches, Nissan GTR, etc... That is one hell of a well handling car for sure

One person I know has a similar commute that you do and he bought a VW Golf electric model, and with some skill (luck?) he can make the commute. Keep in mind however, that this commute involves passing over a mountain range with a 2000ft peak, so not optimal conditions for electric vehicles going up hill.

If you own a home and have solar panels, then an electric car is a no brainer...

[R. Pare]

If you own a home and have solar panels, then an electric car is a no brainer...

Until you get stuck in a traffic jam for 6 hours in below zero weather........

[Pi_guy]

I drive an electric Zamboni.
There is no acceleration curve it gets to speed and that is it. I watch the voltmeter it goes down faster than my gas gauge.
Used to toss the propane powered one into a slide very easy this one not so much.

We had a few propane fires at the rink the new rink logo was going to be a Zamboni with flames.
So getting an electric Zamboni was a no brainer, except that charging the multiple batteries released hydrogen gas think Zeppelin in NJ. So now the fire dept is back and the alarms are going off. Solution was a vent system.

So as much as batteries seem better there are issues one has to be aware of.

[provamo]

I have driven the EV-1 and the Leaf and the Bolt

Cool except for when I want to drive cross country

[chrisw52]

Until you get stuck in a traffic jam for 6 hours in below zero weather........

with less than a 1/2 tank of fuel? been there done that. cold weather is the great equalizer when stuck in a traffic jam

[dalz]

Speaking of solar...I'm surprised that there is not at least a small panel on EVs to generate whatever it could at anytime. I know it wouldn't be a lot, but an Amp is an Amp.

I also read at least 20 years ago that solar panels would someday be on virtually every car, keeping the battery topped up, running the HVAC in extreme conditions, but it's not come to be.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I've been reading a lot of good reviews on the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ev6-epa-range/

If it's strictly a commute car it makes a lot of sense.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Speaking of solar...I'm surprised that there is not at least a small panel on EVs to generate whatever it could at anytime. I know it wouldn't be a lot, but an Amp is an Amp.

I also read at least 20 years ago that solar panels would someday be on virtually every car, keeping the battery topped up, running the HVAC in extreme conditions, but it's not come to be.

IIR the Prius has a panel roof (or option) to increase it's range.

[Garey Guzman]

I have experience with the Nissan Leaf. I bought a 2012 super cheap and even though it's down to around 40 miles per charge, it still takes my son to high school and back, including any errands.

I leased a 2021 Leaf+ (226 mile advertised range) for a little over a year. I miss that car. Handled great and did everything I needed it too, including the near 70 mile round trip to Nashville for my son's medical appointments. I'd also show off a little because it's more powerful than the 2012 he drives. If you have a charger at your destination, it's easy! If not, you'd probably be fine. It's also a lot cheaper than most EVs. I got home with more than half the range remaining.

Note that there is usually about a 2% range reduction per year with the current technology levels. Nissan will have an SUV available this fall with more range and more powerful motors on one or both axles.

[Agamble5]

The commute is 60 miles each way. I was thinking Leaf or Bolt, good to know they can be leased, no battery to replace. It would just be a commuter vehicle, with charging at home and work.

Appreciate the comments!

[EYERACE]

So you were thinking to buy an EV........well foogetaboutit. Petroleum will not be outlawed or going out of production anytime soon. So buy a dino burner and there you go

[mark elder]

Yes a very cold day will decrease range due to the the need to heat the cabin plus the battery efficiency drops. And traffic jams don't help if it is cold. But if you buy a 400 mile range Tesla there is plenty spare for your 60 mile commute (even if it was 60 each way). Whereas a 5 year old Leaf with 150 mile range may struggle with a 120 mile journey in winter.

Confession; just bought the dual motor long range Model 3 Tesla. Deeply impressed. Almost Porsche fast. Top speed is something like 160mph. Handles as well as the Porsche(!!!). Huge room for rear passengers. A stop at a Supercharger will give you 200 miles in 25 minutes; enough time for coffee and toilet and a few emails and a read of Apexspeed. Drive a Leaf then drive a Tesla. No comparison.

[Chris Livengood]

I have experience with the Nissan Leaf. I bought a 2012 super cheap and even though it's down to around 40 miles per charge, it still takes my son to high school and back, including any errands.

I leased a 2021 Leaf+ (226 mile advertised range) for a little over a year. I miss that car. Handled great and did everything I needed it too, including the near 70 mile round trip to Nashville for my son's medical appointments. I'd also show off a little because it's more powerful than the 2012 he drives. If you have a charger at your destination, it's easy! If not, you'd probably be fine. It's also a lot cheaper than most EVs. I got home with more than half the range remaining.

Note that there is usually about a 2% range reduction per year with the current technology levels. Nissan will have an SUV available this fall with more range and more powerful motors on one or both axles.

I tried to talk my wife into buying a used Leaf. They are dirt cheap, it's crazy. We live in the city so it would have been perfect. Ultimately she wanted something she could travel in. We always take my TDI when traveling since it gets such good mileage, but she ended up buying a Mini Clubman S. A fine car by many measures, but I still wish we had gotten a Leaf.

[Steve Bamford]

I've driven a Tesla for 5 plus years now. With newer battery technology you will have no issues.

Also if you get stuck for 5-6 hours in a traffic jam you will still be fine as the heater needed to keep you warm will only reduce very limited km's...idling will use some of your range on fuel vehicles as well so unless you are traveling with gas cans in the back you may have bigger issues then the electric car.

If you wait a few years to buy a new car you will not have a choice other then buying electric anyways. May as well jump in.

[Larry H]

Most of the information is correct in this thread.

The Zamboni issue, while it applies to vented lead acid batteries has no relevance to modern sealed Li-ion batteries used in today's EVs.

If you have a garage with 220VAC, then I would think that most of your commuting charging should be done at home.

I would look at:
Tesla (any model): Pros: Battery range, very nice charging eco-system, simplifying charging. Cons: Reliability/Quality, congestion at charging stations and can't use other DC charging stations other than Tesla
Volkswagen ID-4: Pros: Good range, built by a car company with years of experience. Cons: Not sexy, Might be too small, charging ecosystem is somewhat unstructured and on the unreliable side.
Ford Mustang-e: Ditto
Nissan Ariya: Ditto. Nissan is somewhat conservative in their design but they have been building EVs since 2011
Hyundai Kona: Ditto. but has one of the best performing batteries in the cold with only a 10% loss in range (~240 miles). I would derate the range by 20% at decent freeway speeds 65MPH. At 75 plus the range will go quickly.
Audi e-tron: ditto. Very cool and high tech, performs well in the cold but a bit on the lower side of range.

There are more and will be more

Also expect your DC charging to be slower when it's cold but the charging rates at home will not be affected significantly because of the lower charging rates. Home charging power ranges from 3 -12KW vs Public DC Charging power ranges from 50-100KW

My opinion only but I wouldn't buy a Tesla and would buy from a long established car company. I have a 2011 Nissan with zero problems except for the battery, which they replaced under warranty.

[Steve Bamford]

Most of the information is correct in this thread.

I would look at:
Tesla (any model): Pros: Battery range, very nice charging eco-system, simplifying charging. Cons: Reliability/Quality, congestion at charging stations and can't use other DC charging stations other than Tesla


My opinion only but I wouldn't buy a Tesla and would buy from a long established car company. I have a 2011 Nissan with zero problems except for the battery, which they replaced under warranty.

Hi Larry,

I am surprised at your comment on reliability on the Tesla. I have had an air bag recall on my Tesla and had the service done in my driveway. They are the only manufacture that I am aware of that send service techs to you vs having to bring the car to the dealership. I personally didn't experience any of the reliability issues that you are speaking of, nor am I really aware of many that others have had. No more then any other manufacture. I've had one of cars at GM for warranty service multiple times to no avail resolving the issue till they finally replaced the transmission after four visits.

That's simply my personal experience, only other electric car I have history with is a Fisker and that had repeated issues so for me at least, the Tesla's I have owned have been excellent.

[Pi_guy]

Most of the information is correct in this thread.

The Zamboni issue, while it applies to vented lead acid batteries has no relevance to modern sealed Li-ion batteries used in today's EVs.

I hope you don't think that Li type batteries have no issues. Myself and others might disagree.

[Mark_Silverberg]

I must lead with a disclaimer required by my employer - I am an employee of Nissan North America and the opinions I express are mine.

I had a Nissan LEAF as a company vehicle for approximately a year while living in Michigan. I did not find any significant issues in winter driving - in many ways it was more convenient. I could set the vehicle to pre-condition while still plugged into the home electrical supply and always came out to a warm car with clear windows and heated seats at full temperature. I never had to stop to fill the fuel tank during the winter which was definitely a plus.

I found that the LEAF became our primary vehicle for nearly all activities within range because it was simply a more convenient vehicle to drive an had better performance on city streets and acceptable performance on the highway.

A 60 mile commute is viable in most vehicles presently on the market. It would be more convenient to be able to plug in at work because of the ability to pre condition in the winter but most vehicle will have sufficient capacity to pre condition even if not plugged in. I would have no qualms having such a commute with the majority of EV vehicles now on the market.

The main issue I found with having an EV vehicle in my household fleet was there were times where I needed the other vehicle in the fleet with a longer range and my spouse did not want to be inconvenienced around having to charge the EV during her travels or modify her route or activities in any way. Let's just say the discussions around her need to modify plans were not pleasant. This would become less of an issue with present vehicles having range above 200 miles.

We definitely would consider having an EV in our fleet again - but presently are frequently traveling long distances between residences and would need to better understand logistics of charging during trips to to determine if it is a viable solution.

[Stan Clayton]

I have a 60 mile freeway commute and was thinking of buying an electric car.

Has anyone here had any experiences with electric cars?

Do they lease these things? How long does a battery last at 75 MPH?

How do they work in freezing weather?

Thanks

Andrew

I can't comment about any other brand of EV, but our Tesla Model 3 AWD-LR has a 350 mile range. We recharge every night off a regular 120vac outlet, or the dryer plug in the garage for 4x the charging rate if we ran the battery down that day. We did a 400+ mile trip each way to Wash DC during the New Year's snowstorm last month and our Model 3 version is the best snow car we've ever driven. Tesla chargers every hour or so along the route (that show up on the dash's moving map). One's bladder capacity is the limiting factor, not the car's battery capacity.

Until you get stuck in a traffic jam for 6 hours in below zero weather........

NOT TRUE. Tesla Model 3 (and X) have very efficient heat pumps that draw slightly less than 1% of battery capacity per hour in cold weather to maintain a 40F differential between the outside air temp and the cabin air temp (e.g., 32F outside...72F inside). If you've just charged your car's battery before getting stuck in the proverbial snowbank you're good for 4 days...just don't eat the yellow snow.

Tesla (any model): Pros: Battery range, very nice charging eco-system, simplifying charging. Cons: Reliability/Quality, congestion at charging stations and can't use other DC charging stations other than Tesla

This is simply NOT TRUE for the simple reason that Teslas don't use DC chargers...only AC chargers. Besides, every Tesla comes with a universal adapter (in the glove box) to allow it to use any common commercial charging port. Hotels, grocery stores, restaurants... we've used them all without issue.

[Mark_Silverberg]

This is simply NOT TRUE for the simple reason that Teslas don't use DC chargers...only AC chargers. Besides, every Tesla comes with a universal adapter (in the glove box) to allow it to use any common commercial charging port. Hotels, grocery stores, restaurants... we've used them all without issue.

I have also seen Tesla Model S using Chademo chargers with an adapter. I stopped to talk to the owner to make sure the charger was working as it was at my work place. The driver assured me that he used the charger with the adapter frequently.

[mark elder]

At least the last 2 years of Tesla Model 3 can use every sort EV charger around but some are 20kw/hour and the 'fast ones' are about 50kw/hour. The Tesla Superchargers are about 120kw/hour. This assumes like for like; if your battery is getting full the charge rate slows down regardless.

I might have this wrong but is seems that at one stage early in the peace, it seemed like Tesla wanted to go alone such that you could only use their chargers. If that was correct, those days are well and truely over.

[Agamble5]

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Larry H]

Hi Larry,

I am surprised at your comment on reliability on the Tesla. I have had an air bag recall on my Tesla and had the service done in my driveway. They are the only manufacture that I am aware of that send service techs to you vs having to bring the car to the dealership. I personally didn't experience any of the reliability issues that you are speaking of, nor am I really aware of many that others have had. No more then any other manufacture. I've had one of cars at GM for warranty service multiple times to no avail resolving the issue till they finally replaced the transmission after four visits.

That's simply my personal experience, only other electric car I have history with is a Fisker and that had repeated issues so for me at least, the Tesla's I have owned have been excellent.

I don't own one but know many that do and most if not all have experienced fit, finish and reliability issues with Tesla but in the end most of them just tolerate the inconvenience. Also, Google Reliability Tesla.

[Larry H]

I have also seen Tesla Model S using Chademo chargers with an adapter. I stopped to talk to the owner to make sure the charger was working as it was at my work place. The driver assured me that he used the charger with the adapter frequently.

Yes, this does work but may not be sustainable. There will be fewer and fewer CHAdeMO chargers installed moving forward, as the LEAF is the only EV that uses CHAdeMO. Today most DC chargers for public use are being ordered with dual CCS1 connectors. Of course someone will come up with a CCS1 to Tesla Adapter, more complex because CHAdeMO and Tesla use CAN bus communication and CCS1/2 uses Pulse Width Modulation like communication. The two use different electrical signals to communicate.

[Larry H]

This is simply NOT TRUE for the simple reason that Teslas don't use DC chargers...only AC chargers. Besides, every Tesla comes with a universal adapter (in the glove box) to allow it to use any common commercial charging port. Hotels, grocery stores, restaurants... we've used them all without issue.

Teslas use DC chargers, not for charging at home where AC "charging" is used. For on-the-road charging, most Supercharger locations have exclusively DC chargers.

[provamo]

also tested the Smart car E which was a rocket

but impossible to charge from my fourth story apartment

[EACIII]

also tested the Smart car E which was a rocket

but impossible to charge from my fourth story apartment

Something that is not talked about is for a lot of people who's parking spot for the night is wherever they can find one on the street in the area, charging at home is not an option.

[Chris Livengood]

You need a parking chair.

[Dan Wellington]

Don't even ask bro,
if you have tesla charging network in your country, go straight for a Tesla Model 3, or Model Y if you want something like a crossover.