Hawke DL12

[Nik UK]

Hi Guys
I have just bought what i believe to be a Hawke DL12. it is missing the uprights.i believe that they are the same as Hawke DL11 uprights.they are big fabricated units with a very large diameter bearing. any spares lieing around or do you know of anywhere that might be able to make them?
cheers Nik

[cjahn]

Nik,

I believe that there are only three in the US...One is for sale!

Pat Prince in Sterling, Ill (USA) has the jigs to make/rebuild uprights. He did mine when I had the car. Pat is a great guy. His phone number is 1-815-625-8116. He also rebuilt my chassis when I had a DL12.

A guy named Wayne Lee has a chassis for sale (And I dont know how many other parts). Check it out here for the phone number and pics: http://www.sportsracer.com/

And here is the Hawke Registry: http://www.vintagegarage.com/hawkeregistry.html
Have fun! I miss my car.

Courtney "Corky" Jahn

[Nik UK]

thanks courtney. thats a great help. its also just confirmed that it definitly is a DL12 from the photos. i dont suppose pat prince is on the internet? its just a damn expensive phone call from the uk. also i work shifts and i dont want to be calling up in the middle of the night!! Thanks again.
Nik

[David Ferguson]

You may want to investigate various phone card/rate plans. My co-worker with Family in the UK, can call them cheaper than I call my family in the same state!

[Comp89]

Check with Ken or Simon at Universal Racing Services. I am sure they will be able to help you
http://www.universalracing.co.uk/

[Nik UK]

Cheers for the help guys. ill find something on the web for phoning. ive tried universal, they are good for stuff like C.V. joints and the like but they dont have jigs or specifics for Hawke Cars.Cheers anyway.

[cjahn]

Nik,
To my knowledge, Pat does not use e-mail or the internet. (Too busy building kick butt stuff!)

Cj

[triumph_tech]

Is there such an animal as a Hawke DL-17? I know someone with remnants of two Hawkes, I thought he said they were DL-17's. He has two,more or less,complete rollers, one crash damaged. There is likley enough to build a car with spares left over. If there is interest in these cars I post a phone number or email address.

[Shep]

Hi Gary,

Yes there was a DL15, a DL17 and even a DL19 FF before the company disappeared. I'd be interested in the details of the DL17s, if only to wonder how they differ from my DL12.

I'm embarassed about how behind I am in updating the site, but check out the unofficial registry at:
http://www.vintagegarage.com/hawkeregistry.html

Erik

[cjahn]

Erik and others who may be interested:

After I decided to test the strength of my hawke chassis by running in into a wall and then proceeding to do several flips and barrel rolls, I looked at buying another one.

If I remember correctly the 15 had a similar chassis to the 12 but had front rockers. (With the supporting chassis changes.)

The 17 had front rockers as well if I remember correctly. But I think a different chassis style. (I believe this had tiga style rear suspension setup with the suspension mounted off the gearbox)

The 19 had a chassis style similar to the late 70's tiga with regards to the rear frame of the car (Behind the driver (Where the suspension mounted off of the gearbox (As well) and an upper cross member.) I have only seen one 19 in person and the one I saw one was damn nice and HIGHLY modified. The guy setup carbon fiber side pods with aluminum rads(This is where I got the idea to build mine) and had a rear subframe welded in to replace this sort of previously mentioned setup. It was an awesome car and I would buy it in a moment if I had the chance of the ability. Also, I was told that the 19 used crossle style front suspension and a standard style rear suspension. In fact I was told the the front a-arms from a crossle were almost bolt on.

Personally, I was not too interested in the 15 and 17 due to the rockers, but that is just my opinion. Not that rockers are bad, I just was not interested in having a car with them. Although, for the sake of having another hawke, I may reconsider in the near future.

BTW: Based upon variuos discussions, I believe all the hawkes used almost the exact same upright in the front and rear. Only there were slight changes between all the models. I think even the 19 I saw orig had the same ones as my 12.

AND BTW: Go to this site for greater details and pictures: http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/ffs.htm
(About 3/4 the way down there are about 4 hawkes listed)

Hope this helps you folks out! And feel free to correct me where necessary. It has been awhile since I did all this research.
Corky!

OOOPS: Part of this post should most likely go in another location.........

[Bob Coury]

I have some general info including alignment specs direct from Hawke in the 70's. I believe it is from a 17, but some of the stuff is applicable to earlier models. I can email if you are interested.

[Nik UK]

hi guys.
im getting a bit confused about my hawke now. i have outboard spring/damper units on my "DL12" at the front, but at the rear i have a cast beam(magnesium i think but it might just be aluminium) with alloy plates onto which the rear suspension mounts. the beam mounts on the sideplates of the hewland mk9. is this a DL12 or do i have an oddball car or even worse a bodge job to try and update it? could it be a DL14,(i imagine there was no 13) as i have never even heard of a descripton of a DL14.
cheers
Nik

[cjahn]

Nik,

Send me some pictures and I may be able to help you out......Sounds like you have the 15 style rear suspension. But I would have to see it to help you figure it out....

Keith Avrill (Pardon the spelling) may be able to help you out....http://racing-stuff.com/ I think he had a 12 (Which I think Wayne Lee now has as I described earlier). He may be able to give you some more info. If you go to his site you will see the car in the upper lefthand corner of the page (Number 31)

Corky
ctjahn@hotmail.com

[Shep]

Hi Nik,

Sorry for the delay in sending you pictures. Here's a picture of the back of my DL12 during the rebuild. Please understand that the oil tank and radiator swirl pot are not original, but the rear uprights and basic geometry are (though I believe the attachment points were moved slightly to account for the differences between UK and US tires) Anyway, how does your geometry compare to this....?

Erik

[Nik UK]

hi guys.
i will get some photos uploaded soon as possible. i am still trying to figure out the digi cam!
the back end of my hawke is similar but the top rear suspension mounts are on the cast beam as i mentioned before. does anyone have any pictures of the DL15 back end as a comparison? i cant seem to find alot, even the for sale pages dotted about the place are not coming up with much.
cheers
Nik

[Nik UK]

Erik,
i noticed in your pictures that you have inboard rear brakes. were these common on all hawkes? i imagine that they must because of the upright geometry. what brackets and output shafts do i need for these & where might i find some? does anybody have any spares? pics of the back end of mine are on their way but my sister has gone to india with the digital camera, so ill have to get some "real" photos processed & scanned.

Nik

p.s. the car is in bits i havent really touched it yet apart from the new gearbox case. ill try and make the pics as self-explanetary as possible.

[Nik UK]

Thanks for the email erik, hotmail wont let me reply so its going on here!!!

ill get my pics posted and then you can see what im up against. it really is going to be starting from scratch with this one. these pictures are just some quick polaroid snaps.the beam in img001 bolts to the top of the hewland sideplates and the top of the rear suspension hangs from it. img002 is the back of the frame, it just cant be a DL12!!! img003 is just a frontal shot. is this the same as yours? img004 is of the dashboard/front rollhoop. just to see if there are any similarities.
over to you guys who are far more knowlegable than myself. ill try and build the beam up with the rollbar/swaybar and any other bits that it has on it.
btw is your hewland-kent adaptor plate the standard 1" 1/2 approx, as i think the adaptor fixes to the frame at the bottom rather than the gearbox itself.

any thoughts are good.

cheers guys
nik

p.s. will try and get decent pics soon!!!

[cjahn]

Nik,

That is an interesting car. Do you have pic's of the body? How about side pic's of the chassis. After looking closely it looks like a DL11 (which had a similar chassis to the DL12 (I saw one a few years ago and almost bought it). BUT it looks like a later rear chassis was grafted on to the car. The lower front (What appears to be) pickup points for the suspension really look after market. I believe the DL11 had side rads in a shroud which may have covered the subframes on the side of the car. (But those could be after market too.)

If you have time post some more pictures. Keith may be able to help from Avril Racing Stuff.

My uprights had the mounts for outboard brakes, but I dont know of a hawke that used them....

Corky

[Nik UK]

Corky,
The only DL11s that i have ever seen had the radiator in the nose??! the lower front pick ups at the front of the chassis are solid!!! almost like they are made out of pig iron!! The lower front suspension pickups for the rear of the wishbone are actually inside the tub. the bodywork is like the DL15 owned by Mark Aberkrom as shown in the Hawke registry website. it has side radiator pods that sweep up at the back in line with the engine cover. The frame is very straight and i can only see one tube that has been replaced. i think that the back end is original, they would have had to do a blinding job on the welding to get it to look that good. ill get pics posted asap.

Nik

[85258]

Nik,
Here are some pictures my Hawke DL11 that I purchased in Fall 2004. No progress on the car yet.

www.pbase.com/85258/hawke_dl11

Rad is in the nose.

[flat broke]

Nice to see the car is all there. The surface corrosion makes you thing that it was poorly stored for quite some time. I found that with my Merlyn, alot of the suspension was available (already plated) at about the same cost as replating the existing components.
There are a number of well restored Hawkes that run in VARAC. One "vintage" Hawke was VERY fast when it ran against the modern FF cars in the Ontario FF regional race last year. I think he had a few of them worried. If you are looking for Canadian contacts just let me know.

Tony

[kea]

NIK UK,
The car you have is not a DL12 Hawke. The rear engine bay and the frame members going forward are the key. The DL12 had side rad's (2) with round covers down the side, that your chassis would not accommodate. Also, the frame around the engine was so tight, that a belt driven, oil pump (left front lower), had to be used. The normal F/Ford 1600 oil pump would not fit.
I hope this helps.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff,Inc.

[Hawke]

The uprights look identical to my DL 11, except for the lack of mounts for brakes. My oil pump is the normal side mounted one, but the frame is recessed to fit. The radiator is in the nose.

There is DL 17 here that I race against, and it has side radiators, but a very large spacer between the engine and transmission - about 12 inches.

I have mine completly pulled down to the frame at the moment, so if you want some photos, I can email them on.

I hope the attached photos work.

[Athgoe Racing]

Nik there is a few Hawke DL 11's running in the UK, there was one at the Walter Hayes Trophy in silverstone in November. I'm sure one of them would lend you an upright to get some made. Try a add on www.racecarsdirect.com or www.ten-tenths.com

[Nik UK]

Keith,
how similar is the back end to a DL15, if you have experience of these? The rad's on mine fit between the members that go from half way down the cockpit to the suspension mounts for the front of the trailing arms. it will be more obvious when i have some side on pics of the chassis to post.have you ever heard of a DL14? could it bea sort of hybrid DL12/15 cross?
Nik

[Shep]

Hi Nik,

No DL14 as far as I know.

Your car is definitely not a DL9, 10, 11 or 12 as their chassis all looked very similar. The top-most chassis rails incorporated sheet metal sections that tapered to an increased width at the instrument panel bulkhead and then tapered back down to the front bulkhead - kind of an hour-glass or blackwidow spider shape as viewed from the top.

I would say your chassis could be that of a DL15, DL17, or DL19, but those cars all had rocker arm suspension, and yours looks to have conventional A-arm attachment points.

Did you say you had the uprights? Any way you could take pictures of them? How 'bout a shot with the bodywork on? (Thanks to Gary Vallone - TriumphTech - for the DL17 picture)

Erik

[Peter Currie]

I have some general info including alignment specs direct from Hawke in the 70's. I believe it is from a 17, but some of the stuff is applicable to earlier models. I can email if you are interested.

Hi Bob it would be great if you could email me a copy at agendaguy @ yahoo . com please

Thanks...Currie

[Nik UK]

Erik,
The top chassis rails are straight sections, no taper. The front suspension is A arms, thats the confusing thing, otherwise i would say it is DL15 or later. The A arms look alot stronger and heavier than any of the other Hawke stuff that i have seen. bit of a strange one isn't it?! the only upright that i have is the nearside (left) front. it is the same as the DL11 uprights in the pics posted by 85258 and HAWKE. ill get pics of the A arms and upright and bodywork ASAP.
cheers
Nik

[Hawke]

Peter,

I have a copy of the original set up for my DL 11. However, we tried these, and now do things much different, and much faster. I suspect modern tyres and shocks have made a signifigent difference.

For example, the specified ride height was 75 mm, but we are now running at 38mm. Old front camber 1 degree, we now run 3-3.5 degrees.

With the old settings, ran at the rear of the field, now run in the top 3, and in my last race, beat some Formula 2, 3 and Atlantic cars.

If you still want them, let me know and I'll email them.

[Nik UK]

are the hubs on Hawkes like the uprights ie all the same throughout the range? standard parts or a specialist job? pics should be posted tomorrow.
Nik

[Bob Coury]

Currie:

Sorry, I have been on the FC sites lately and missed your request. I will email today. It will be a large PDF file. Some settings are crossed out and replaced with different values. It was so long ago, but I thing someone at Hawke had done that to give me the appropriate settings for a DL2A.

Take care
Bob Coury

[Nik UK]

Heres the body work. still polaroids im afraid. problems with the digi-cam. im at the autosport show tomorrow. ill see if i can find anyone there to pick their brains.
Nik

[Peter Currie]

Peter,

I have a copy of the original set up for my DL 11. However, we tried these, and now do things much different, and much faster. I suspect modern tyres and shocks have made a signifigent difference.

For example, the specified ride height was 75 mm, but we are now running at 38mm. Old front camber 1 degree, we now run 3-3.5 degrees.

With the old settings, ran at the rear of the field, now run in the top 3, and in my last race, beat some Formula 2, 3 and Atlantic cars.

If you still want them, let me know and I'll email them.

Hi Hawke..since we won't be racing each other (I'm in Canada) do you have your new setting documented. I have a DL9 I'm trying to dial in please

[Hawke]

Peter,

Send me an email at 'hawke "at" wcriskmanagement.com.au' and I'll send them on.

[Harry L]

Peter,
Have been running my dl-9 for the last year in Texas. Would be willing to send
you my settings. Haven't been that competitive mainly due to old tires. Replaced shocks
and springs for a major gain Also have the original setups from the previous owner.
Harry

[JonDavisDL11]

Guys,

I am the owner driver of the Hawke DL11 mentioned as being at the Walter Hayes Trophy event at Silverstone in November last year. I have looked at the pictures in the thread and can safely say this is no DL11. It is much newer than 1973 or so the bodywork would suggest. I am aware that there are subtle differences between UK and US spec DL's. I am pretty sure that even the early US cars had side mounted rads and quite often run with slicks and wings . . . unlike the 'hardcore' UK cars that rely on the earths gravity, treaded Avon ACB9s and a wing and a prayer to stay on the black stuff. If you have any more pictures to assist with the investigation please drop them to me at jon.davis@ricardo.com and I will interrogate the guys here running in the CFFR.

FYI there is an Historic 'Autosport' Show in February (25, 26 and 27 at Stonleigh Park Coventry) and there should be some hardware to check out and brains to pick there.

www.historicmotorsportshow.com

As an aside . . . I would be interested to receive the new DL11 set up data from Hawke. I have been running at the 75mm (3 inch) front ride height (3 1/2 inch rear) and was intending to drop the car down to the 40mm ride height minimum that is enforced in the UK before the new season starts. It is good to know that the camber (negative I presume!) has been increased as I do not think I can get the car back to the 1 degree that Hawke recommended once I have lowered the car . . . the rose joints just do not have enough thread left!