Transponder issues

[Hartley]

I was racing at Daytona last weekend and had to rent a transponder because my transponder signal suddenly became intermittent on the track receiver. After a little research I learned this is happening at many tracks across the country as new receiver equipment is installed.

Another potential issue: the transponder I rented must ‘see’ the ground so it had to be mounted on the outside of the nose. Not exactly what you want on a formula car.

The new transponders are being ‘sold’ with subscriptions of $100 per year.

Does anyone know if this will be a problem at the runoffs at VIR? If so they will need a truck load of new transponders with over 700 entries!

[Ed Womer]

How much for a new unit without the annual etc. subscription?

When is someone going to make an copy clone of these? Everything else is copied so why not these?

Ed

[Peter Olivola]

I was racing at Daytona last weekend and had to rent a transponder because my transponder signal suddenly became intermittent on the track receiver. After a little research I learned this is happening at many tracks across the country as new receiver equipment is installed.

Another potential issue: the transponder I rented must ‘see’ the ground so it had to be mounted on the outside of the nose. Not exactly what you want on a formula car.

The new transponders are being ‘sold’ with subscriptions of $100 per year.

Does anyone know if this will be a problem at the runoffs at VIR? If so they will need a truck load of new transponders with over 700 entries!

Outside has always been the recommended location on formula cars. Even Indycar mounts them outside. It avoids any and all potential issues with what may be below the transponder. I've seen nose mounts with holes that produced weak readings.

[Rick Kirchner]

Evidently AMB is very aggressive at protecting its patents, even to the point of threatening people who simply repair their stuff - like the guy in OZ.

Someone would have to do some research, but the original transponder patents have probably expired. The reverse engineering on these things is not too tough. I have a couple of former co-workers who specialized in doing this type of work. One has a little side business selling new ignition modules for old Yamahas after those became unobtanium.

I see two potential roadblocks - one is establishing some kind of numbering scheme if someone could make the new transponders. You'd have to know something about the AMB software to see if it only accepts numbers in a certain format for example.

The other is what you are describing now - a planned upgrade - maybe even mandatory, to the trackside equipment that renders old units useless and forces us to buy and subscribe.

If the SCCA, NASA, and VMC got together they could probably find a way to support a program to get us out from under AMB, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

With the track day clubs, RC cars, running sports, etc, club racers are a minority part of AMBs business now.

[Lyngengr]

Does anyone know if this will be a problem at the runoffs at VIR?

SCCA tech has a receiver that can determine if a transponder is working. If you have doubts, have them check yours.

Most transponder issues, especially intermittent signals, involve low voltage. I've had squawks when my battery and/or alternator were not working and the system voltage dropped below 10 V.

I drive a formula car and mount my transponder on the front bulkhead, where the nose attaches. It "sees" the track through the nose fiberglass. Never had a problem with registering unless the voltage falls. Mine is directly wired into the battery so when the kill switch is on, the transponder is on.

[DaveW]

At Autobahn in July, there was a huge rainstorm on Friday, maybe as much as 4" of rain. On Saturday many teams were told that they had transponder issues which "miraculously" disappeared Sunday. Apparently the transponders were fine but the buried track transponder wiring got compromised by water intrusion.

My hard-wired transponder looks through a 1.5" wide by 3" long hole in the aluminum crush structure and the fiberglass (no hole) on the bottom of the nose cover. Doing that has not caused any issues.

[tige00]

Ditto that, mine is hard wired and is on bulkhead in the nose it sees through the fiberglass no problem, never had an issue in 15 years.

[EYERACE]

Hartley, come see where mine is mounted next time we're at the track together - it's never been a problem in all these years and it's not outside

[mikey]

I need to pick a spot to mount mine in my Lola F 3000. Will it see through a carbon fiber nose?

[Lotus7]

I need to pick a spot to mount mine in my Lola F 3000. Will it see through a carbon fiber nose?

Our experience with a Swift 016 was that the transponder didnt like looking through any carbon of any substantial thickness, although others told us they didnt have issues. It seemed to work looking through the thinner sidepod but not the thicker nose box.

[Dee]

stock side pod on swift 016 no problem

[Ed Womer]

Since I build my vee and first cars with a steel belly pan I cut a hole in it at the front of the chassis so it can have an unobstructed sight line to the track. I just think it is stupid to install a couple of hundred dollar part where it could get damaged in an incident.

All patents have a termination date and now 40 years later there has to be a better way to make a transponder that will most likely even work better. I guess you could possibly rack this up to another show of corporate greed. Everything in racing is copied quickly so what is the issue?

Ed

[David Clubine]

I have never opened a window for the transponder. We have run them through chassis tubes, alloy floors, stainless floors, and plywood, on likely 40 cars or more. There has never been a problem attributed to not having a window.

[924RACR]

I've been running mine shooting down through a thin carbon panel on the bottom of the splitter without a complaint ever in ten years...

[Hartley]

Hartley, come see where mine is mounted next time we're at the track together - it's never been a problem in all these years and it's not outside

Thanks for all the replies guys. Yeah Stan my permanent transponder is mounted on the lower outside chassis frame inside the nose. I only mounted a temporary rental transponder on the side of the nose.

No one seems too worried about this issue so I guess we just go to VIR and hope for the best. I guess a call to the track to see if this issue has been found there might be warranted.

[Rick Kirchner]

and maybe check your transponder voltage, at the connectors, under load....

[bob darcey]

I've had a transponder issue once in many years of use. It turned out to be the master switch, not the transponder.