Runoffs may change today

[Mike Scanlan]

Absolutely spot on Mike. You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time , but no one has yet to figure out how to please all of the people all of the time.

[problemchild]

Mike says "The track is only a location it does not make the event. The competitors and participants make the event."
Well, now you won't have to worry about too many competitors or workers.

[Steve Demeter]

Amen Problem Child

[Dave Hopple]

Can you pass at HPT? Not sure if how challenging a track needs to be for a National Championship, I think a circuit that provides good safe competitive racing is more important IMHO, let the races be the show not the track, besides I think it would be good if some of you left/right coasters would spend some quality time in the heartland, open up your horizons a little and your not going to find a better Steak anywhere..


I remember how much people bitched about Mid-O when it was first announced, too tight can't pass, paddock is too small, not enough hotel rooms, it will be too cold, mud, yada yada yada, it worked out pretty well the past 12 years. (anyone remember the smell the first couple of years when the local Farmers around the track, would "fertilize" their fields during the Runoffs, or was it just me? )



-Dave

[Phil Picard]

I seem to recall a thread indicating that Mr Johnson is from Kansas and that it appears all that is SCCA will revolve around it.

[Rob Klein]

If they don't make drastic changes to the track, bring your mouth piece and kidney belt. The track is very, very rough and very boring. Hopefully with the $$$ alocated for 2006 there will be some "BIG" changes made to the track to make it fun. Facility's are not bad but, never seen 700 cars there either. From general conversation with a few of the competitors that regularly attend the Runoffs at MO, looks as we may loose a few but, who know's we may add some new faces too.

HPT has pretty drastic gear changes pending on the wind direction.

Rob

[Douglas Brenner]

This is not to the point of this string, but those who rated the top five American road circuits as Mid Ohio, Road America, Leguna Seca, Road Atlanta and Watkins Glen have evidently not raced most of the circuits in America (and Canada) or have a different idea on what makes a great race course. I have not been to Watkins Glen, but have raced at the other four plus many others here and I don't consider the ones listed above as the top five. Road America is a beautiful track, but to me kind of a snooze fest. Lots of time to have lunch between corners (love the brats though). Road Atlanta would be on my list and I would probably include Mid Ohio. Laguna Seca wouldn't be close to the top of my list. Lots of closing radius corners and the facilities suck unless you like porta potties. Sears Point (Infinion) would be at the top of my list. Every type of corner, huge elivation changes and great facilities, with Mosport a co-first................... Douglas
www.brennerfabrication.com

[Scott Hutchison]

OK, now Douglas has slammed Road America. What's going on? My head is spinning...

[Chas Shaffer]

I must admit I've always felt that it was unfair for the Central Divsion to have the runoffs and sprints, especially for mid west and west coast members however MO did appear to be somewhat geographically central to the memebership population so I made the 9 hour drive twice a year. I do not have enough vacation time or budget to participate in Topeka so unless I move or my job changes I won't be able to participate. Fair is fair, that's been the case for west coast members for years so now it's their turn, I just hope they show up. Maybe I'll make it out there eventaully or it'll move somewhere closer in a few years. Somehow I get the feeling it's going to be in Kansas for a long time. I already tried tapping my ruby drivers shoes together and they didn't take me to Kansas so I'll keep working on plan B.

With that said.... I am curious how many of you might now consider the ACC. I most definately am. I raced in the USFF2000 ACC series in 1999 and loved it. The reason I stopped was my desire to race in the runoffs, my inability to make the Avon's competitve against GY and Hoosier, and lack of time and resources to develop the car for two types of tires. Now that the Runoffs aren't viable for me in 06 and beyond I will likely focus exclusively on the ACC or Zetec series either this year or after the 05 Runoffs. The only draw back to the ACC is the level of competition which is why I'm posting. If others share my thoughts then perhaps we can make a go of it in ACC. If not I will probably try to work the nubmers to convert my car to Zetec or sell it and buy a Zetec. Zetec seems to be strong with 28 confirmed cars for 2005. There are lots of advantages to the ACC such as lower entry fees, qual/race tire rule, spec fuel, reserved paddock space, big events (ALMS, CART, Grand AM), great tracks, professionally run, double events, potential prize funds, more track time and for some of us a lot less travel.

My only negative comment about HTP relates to the selction process. I agree with taking the event to other venues in fairness to the geographically disperse membership but it seems way too coincidental that it ended up in Topeka. I'm trying to be open minded but it does lead one to believe this was a "good old boy network" decision. I intend to learn more before making a final decision but based on what I know so far the selection seems highly suspicious.

[D.T. Benner]

Rob's comment about changing gear ratios for changing wind conditions may explain the lack of TREES.!

[TimW]

So, is Heartland Park at least Dog Friendly (like Blackhawk Farms?)

Just looking for the positives here...

[FCYTravis]

With that said.... I am curious how many of you might now consider the ACC. I most definately am. I raced in the USFF2000 ACC series in 1999 and loved it. There are lots of advantages to the ACC such as lower entry fees, qual/race tire rule, spec fuel, reserved paddock space, big events (ALMS, CART, Grand AM), great tracks, professionally run, double events, potential prize funds, more track time and for some of us a lot less travel.

Greg and I also loved the ACC, despite the fact that we had to travel 2,500 miles to run more than the four West Coast races! I just want to echo everything you said - the series officials are easy to work with and are there to HELP YOU GET ON TRACK. Running with pro series in front of crowds with Victory Lane ceremonies is an amazing feeling. It's a class program in every way.

Greg won the ACC pretty much by default this year, and that's a shame. It could - and should - have been a great championship battle if more cars had showed up. Perhaps that'll change this year.

[Purple Frog]

1. I thought I read on this site that ACC was dead for this year (2005). I thought Cooper dropped their support of it.

2. I love Road America. It's the only track that I can scroll through all the pages on my dash before a braking zone.

3. Now with this HPT decision, it may be harder for me to "sneak" into the last Runoffs at M-O through the SEDIV route.

[Douglas Brenner]

Sorry Scott, I didn't mean it as a slam! The track just isn't on my top five. I definitaly hope to race there again and it is one of the most picturest courses. I am just rating it as a challanging course. Maybe it is better in a high HP car, but for us I don't think it makes it. I think the top cars are just getting rid of as much aero as they can, which means to me that the corners aren't the most important part. If you just want high speed you might as well race an oval. I hope it lives forever. I even have a vintage Road America Cliff Tufty trash can in my office...................

[Chas Shaffer]

I spoke with the whole crew down in St Pete this morning (Brad, John, Dominique, Nicholas), according to them the ACC is on for 2005.

[Frank C]

As a Midwest Division competitor who can't take vacation to attend the Run Offs, I am happy that they are moving to HPT. I believe that Dave W has the best attitude about the location. I do not think that the track is the most challenging, but it can be fun. The fast guys are going to be fast and they are going to make passes. It is not completely flat and I do not think it is nearly as bumpy as LMS suggests. Repaving is planned, anyway. There are some concrete walls. Wind direction generally is not much of a question, just wind magnitude. The wind almost always is down the front straight in the summer and the question usually is whether the wind is just strong or is very strong. From what I have read, the City of Topeka and Ray Irwin are putting a lot of resources into the track to make the event successful. I think this is the big positive. I have never asked any dogs what they think about the track, nor have I heard any complain.
- Frank C

[Purple Frog]

Chas,
That's great news about ACC.
Call Buudrow1 back and tell him to post that info on this site! LOL We have a whole discussion area for the pro guys and hardly any news gets posted, unless Al remembers.
The ACC deal is a neat program to play in.

[Al Craighead]

Hi all,

Not surprising to hear some people like the move to Topeka and some don't. While I've never raced at Runoffs, one of these days, I have worked and attend virtually everyone for the past decade. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to support the Runoffs move and expect Topeka will put on a great event. I like the idea of the Runoffs moving around every year and while I miss being close to all my relatives in Ohio, it will be nice to old visit friends who now live in Topeka and that area of th country.

Hey Frog I haven't forgotten you and the rest of those interested in the Cooper Series. It's just that I'm not currently working for the series, as contract expired a new one has not been worked out, so not putting out any official releases or stories. That being said, I'll post stuff as I hear it. As Chas said the ACC is definitely on for this coming year along with a Masters class for "older" drivers. All in all it sounds like it will be great season in '05 and I hope to be a part of it.

Cheers,

[H82BSLO]

Heartland park is my local track. In recent years it has usually been me and John McMurray battling it out there. I am sure this decision means we will get more out-of-division visitors during the year to spice up our lives. Cool! All are welcome!

Its true that it is not a great track, very few that we race on are but it is due to be fully resurfaced this year and the configuration changes that are being made are designed to make it better. The paddock is way better than MO which is a disgrace for a track of it's stature. And it is also due to be improved. At least someone is trying and with continued investment it will continue to improve.

Having the Run-offs at MO is fun, it is a great track and because of its technical nature somewhat of an advantage to the locals. Unfortunately I don't think the same will apply to us Kansans so I think the same people will be at the front but the racing may be closer.

There is no perfect solution to the Run-offs venue so someone is always going to be unhappy. Some of us will have to live without our tow fund money after this year which obviously will affect our standard of living

Did I mention 'Baby Dolls'...................there are some not so obvious advantages.

Phil Hemes.

[EYERACE]

we've been bought and sold boys..........market heartland park to strangers AND SPONSORS as a top notch place to race and we're sure to get a big HUH when the name HLP comes up. like i said before, the runoffs deserve to be at a place where the name alone will give a woodie not a huh. ...but the"sold" part of the story gives "business" people like Johnson a big smile..........it's also called a sh eating grin too. I believe more than ever that any and all upper managment SCCA must maintain a National Club Racing license.

[Steve Demeter]

I agree with Eye 110%.

I would still like to see the dollars and cents proposals from the tracks.

Additionally, although he undoubtedly had a big influence in the decision making process and helping Mr. Irwin get the grants from Topeka, the ultimate decision was made by our BOD, who we elected and can vote out at the next election if we so choose and there is someone willing to run for the BOD to replace them.

Although I personally think the decision sucks based on the available data, which is none, I still think it is the RIGHT of every dues paying member of the club to see the exact bids verbatim when such a significant decision is made.

[Purple Frog]

Steve,
I can imagine you'll get a bit torqued when you see questions in the the bid such as "How many rental cars are you going to provide for free for the SCCA national staff to drive during the Runoffs week?"

[Steve Demeter]

A bit???
How about a whole lot. With the salary Johnson makes, he ought to have to pay his own way there.
There was discussion at our region meeting last nite that at least the expenses would be lessd for the SCCA paid staff what with the Runoffs being local. Then someone pointed out that they would probably stay in hotels for the week.

[Brian Holtz]

Steve,
I can imagine you'll get a bit torqued when you see questions in the the bid such as "How many rental cars are you going to provide for free for the SCCA national staff to drive during the Runoffs week?"

There is no such provision in the bid. The staff uses rental cars as needed, including sharing them, when they come to Mid-Ohio. This will not be necessary at HPT.

Brian Holtz
Area 2 Director

[Brian Holtz]

Then someone pointed out that they would probably stay in hotels for the week.

If you were simply doing your day job in your own hometown, would your company put you up in a hotel? Wouldn't you prefer to sleep in your own bed at night? What makes you thing the SCCA would do any differently?

Brian

[Purple Frog]

I'll try to go re-check my sources... I think they have a copy of the bid request.

OBTW, for the record, I do think they will be successful at HPT. Because the majority of racers think like DaveW.

But I do like keeping Steve stirred up.

[Steve Demeter]

Ah froggie you purple menace you

[TimW]

If you were simply doing your day job in your own hometown, would your company put you up in a hotel? Wouldn't you prefer to sleep in your own bed at night? What makes you thing the SCCA would do any differently?

I worked for Kraco in the 80s, the shop was 12 miles from the Long Beach Grand Prix. We stayed in hotels in Long Beach. A typical day at any race track is going to be too long to want to commute more than 20 minutes.