Crossle 35F setup info

[Lee Follansbee]

Just got a 35F and wondered what current thinking is as far as alignment setup, springs, etc. I will be running on the West Coast and using the Hoosier VFF tires. Any input is appreciated.

And any comments on how these tires handle would be intersting as well.

Thanks,

Lee

[Paul R]

Call Neil Porter - Porter Racing in Merced.
He knows everything about those cars...
Parts, service, advice etc...
Paul

[TimH]

I have a copy of John Crossle's original setup instructions I can send you for historical interest. Porter's advice is better for modern tires, though.

[Lee Follansbee]

Yes I would love to get a copy of that, it would be neat to have even if it might not be completely accurate for today's racing.

[Lee Follansbee]

I will contact Neil!

[pooch776]

Most people start with the following basic set-up on a Crossle 32/32/40/45 using Hoosier treaded tires.

400LB front and 300 LB rear spings

-.50 deg front and -.25 deg static rear camber.

1/8 total toe out front and 1/8 total toe in rear.

16 lbs tire pressure hot.

Cheers, Joe

[Lee Follansbee]

Joe thanks so much, that gets me in the ballpark to be sure. FWIW, Neil suggests 400# front and rear.

[pooch776]

That surprises me a little because he told me 400/300 five years ago. After running my car for the last five years and triyng a number of spring combinations I have settled on 500/350 which gives me a little more use of my rear sway bar.

YMMV, Joe

[Lee Follansbee]

Hey Joe I just sent you a PM

[Eric Little]

Lee,

If you are in SoCal, the engineer of the most developed Crossle (likely anywhere) is very near by, is very helpful, and would be more than willing to work with you. It is Stewart Paterson of Paterson Motorsport.

I have seen the back of his Crossle enough to know that it really works. You can call him at seven six zero 484 - seven nine seven six (sorry for spelling some of it out, trying to beat the simple bots that will spam his phone). If you call him, he will likely let it go to voicemail until he knows who you are. He is in Fallbrook, CA.

Also, you have a very talented engine builder in SoCal as well. Pick's Racing Engines is owned by a great guy who will spend the time with you and make sure you understand what is needed and why. You can call him at 714-662-5797.

Neither of them pay me. I have been using both for some time now and I am very happy with both.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Eric Little

[Lee Follansbee]

Thanks Eric.

[Kim291]

Call Neal Porter He has helped me tremendously.

Look forward to you joining us Lee. Glad that your start up went well.

Kim Madrid

[tstrong]

Lee, look forward to seeing you in the Ford. FFDC is a great group to run with and Club Ford has a strong field of cars. Hey would suggest going at least 50 lbs softer in the rear (400F, 350R) too start and get used to the car. Then you can start fine tuning. Neil,s recovery mmendation is likely some of on for a very capable drive who is very familiar with the car , but lowering the rear a little will make thing a little more forgiving to start with. Look forward to seeing you, Todd

[tstrong]

Wow, between me and the iPhone we butchered that post, but you get the idea. Todd

[Lee Follansbee]

Thanks for your input, I am indeed looking forward to it. I ordered 400# fronts and 375# rears. I am right with you on the issues with auto-correct, drives me nuts too. I am trying to make the FF 50th with the car at Willow. My to-do list is down to one page, but there are some tough ones still on there. The engine is now running fine, so I think I am ok on that front. I will keep you posted.

Lee

[TimH]

(400F, 350R) to start and get used to the car. Then you can start fine tuning. Neil's recommendation is likely some of on for a very capable drive who is very familiar with the car , but lowering the rear a little will make thing a little more forgiving to start with. Look forward to seeing you, Todd

Hey Todd, your 350R/400F advice is actually what I heard quoted second hand from Neil to more than one pretty decent driver (not me or Jared) and it's what was on my car when I bought it from Jared. One guy was also told to completely remove the front bar. I've never regretted unhooking mine, don't need much rear bar any more either.

Howdya like the way I cleaned up the quote?

[BorkRacing]

Hey Todd, your 350R/400F advice is actually what I heard quoted second hand from Neil to more than one pretty decent driver (not me or Jared) and it's what was on my car when I bought it from Jared. One guy was also told to completely remove the front bar. I've never regretted unhooking mine, don't need much rear bar any more either.

Howdya like the way I cleaned up the quote?

Are you saying you don't use your front ARB?

[TimH]

Are you saying you don't use your front ARB?

Yup.

Haven't taken it off because I can imagine some day/some track I might want it back. Cured my serious exit understeer.

Recently messed with stiffening front rebound but that did make things too tail happy past the apex.

[old 59]

Could you tell me what kind of wheel rates you are getting with those spring rates? I ask because I have a Lola 540 nearing completion and plan on running the Hoosier VFF tire.

Thanks.

[mdwracer]

Most people start with the following basic set-up on a Crossle 32/32/40/45 using Hoosier treaded tires.

400LB front and 300 LB rear spings

-.50 deg front and -.25 deg static rear camber.

1/8 total toe out front and 1/8 total toe in rear.

16 lbs tire pressure hot.

Cheers, Joe

What are the driving characteristics of 1/8" out front toe as compared to setting at "0" and then compared to 1/8" toe in? While I think the 1/8 out gives a quicker turn in... does it develope a mid turn "push" that typically would not be there at a "0" setting a tick of toe in... I am not questioning this set up, just trying to get some info in advance to speed up my testing.
Thanks, Mike

[Lee Follansbee]

Interesting that Tim is not running a front bar at all! Tell us more and if anyone else has info on this please chime in. The new car I have actually has a stiffer bar in the front, I was debating whether to replace it with the original or leave it on but now I am questioning whether I even need one on it at all. My springs are now 400F/375R.

What are the driving characteristics of 1/8" out front toe as compared to setting at "0" and then compared to 1/8" toe in? While I think the 1/8 out gives a quicker turn in... does it develope a mid turn "push" that typically would not be there at a "0" setting a tick of toe in... I am not questioning this set up, just trying to get some info in advance to speed up my testing.
Thanks, Mike

[TimH]

What are the driving characteristics of 1/8" out front toe as compared to setting at "0" and then compared to 1/8" toe in? While I think the 1/8 out gives a quicker turn in... does it develope a mid turn "push" that typically would not be there at a "0" setting a tick of toe in... I am not questioning this set up, just trying to get some info in advance to speed up my testing.
Thanks, Mike

I haven't messed with it personally, but I was told that our geometry doesn't give any ackermann otherwise. Take that for what it's worth.

OTOH, maybe that's why I had exit understeer as a major problem for the first year I drove the car with a front bar.

[BorkRacing]

I haven't messed with it personally, but I was told that our geometry doesn't give any ackermann otherwise. Take that for what it's worth.

OTOH, maybe that's why I had exit understeer as a major problem for the first year I drove the car with a front bar.

or maybe your rear bar and/or springs were too soft?

Robby

[TimH]

or maybe your rear bar and/or springs were too soft?
Robby

Certainly possible. I was going the direction of stiffening the rear but when presented with supposedly Porter-sourced advice to ditch the front bar I thought decreasing rear traction wasn't the best solution to a front traction problem. The car was transformed. Another of our drivers immediately dropped a second/lap from the same change, once he quit spinning it....

YMMV

[teamwisconsin]

Certainly possible. I was going the direction of stiffening the rear but when presented with supposedly Porter-sourced advice to ditch the front bar I thought decreasing rear traction wasn't the best solution to a front traction problem. The car was transformed. Another of our drivers immediately dropped a second/lap from the same change, once he quit spinning it....

YMMV

Tim, am I correct in assuming this is running on the street tires down in AZ? Just curious, I’ve never heard of anyone pulling the front bar with a Crossle on either vintage tires or SCCA CF tires.

[TimH]

Tim, am I correct in assuming this is running on the street tires down in AZ? Just curious, I’ve never heard of anyone pulling the front bar with a Crossle on either vintage tires or SCCA CF tires.

Yes, the Toyos.

Good point. We also run a lot more negative camber than I hear most do on other tires.

[CM/FFdriver]

Interesting that Tim is not running a front bar at all! Tell us more and if anyone else has info on this please chime in. The new car I have actually has a stiffer bar in the front, I was debating whether to replace it with the original or leave it on but now I am questioning whether I even need one on it at all. My springs are now 400F/375R.

Lee,

I find it very interesting that running no front sway bar would work but. Lets start off by setting your FF up from the start, corner weight, alignment, new tires and run tire PSI 15lbs F and 15lbs R, that gives you a great base line to start off with, then you can find out if the big sway bar is too much, or work with a little less spring in the front to get the car to turn in, The old owner may have had no sway bar so it would keep turning through the turns but the car will likely be rolling over on it nose which then you can get wheel spin coming out of turns. Of course then you try thing like rake, different spring rates, alignment setting, to get it to feel the way you want.

Hey Lee, where in Calif do you live you could try some autocross at Crow's landing In Patterson Ca, and do some shake down, the courses are fast, not road racing fast but a good way shake down the car anyways.

Ben

[Fmracerbob]

Let us not drift into the same confusing mix up of terminology that is so annoyingly found on the corvette forum.

Anti-sway bar: found on solid axle suspensions. Purpose is to keep chassis centered over the suspension axle, hence control side to side "sway" of chassis. Most commonly a Panard bar, watts linkage or Jacobs Ladder.

Anti-roll bar : found on independent suspension systems. Purpose is to provide roll resistance to the chassis about the geometric roll center due to cornering forces and weight transfer. Allows fine tuning of weight transfer from side to side and diagonally from rear to front.

Kind of like calling socks gloves, not quite the same thing.


Thanks

[mwells]

Call Neal Porter. If you are in California Neal every thing there ever was. If you are in the northwest you might want to try to find Ken Dye. He also knows every single thing. Good luck.