CART/IRL documentary

[R. Pare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0oRbDzoYc

The second half coming our tomorrow.

[R. Pare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnT2NaFUy1I

[cory mcleod]

I think it's technically "part 2" instead of second half. More installments to come.

Thanks for posting this. I've ended up watching quite a few of the other short documentaries by the same guy.

Cory

[Rick Kirchner]

There was also a great article in Race Tech magazine about the underlying business problems that led to the split. All the Tony George haters out there don't realize that although there was great racing during that era it was not all sparkly unicorns and rainbows.

What I found interesting from the first installment was the number of automotive journalists that were reporting on the issues, yet there seemed to be very little recognition of the problems, even among devoted fans.

[dalz]

What I found interesting from the first installment was the number of automotive journalists that were reporting on the issues, yet there seemed to be very little recognition of the problems, even among devoted fans.

There were stories in the media about how contentious things were getting between TG and the CART bosses. Some of the best were from Jonathan Ingram in On Track magazine. Nobody, including me, ever thought the problems could de-rail the great racing of the era.

I saw the 1st doc, thought it was very good, but a few missed items got my attention. First, when TG announced the first-year IRL schedule, CART moved some of their dates around to prevent a team from trying to jump from series to series in 1996. I don't know if that caused TG to drop the 25/8 bombshell and fracture the sport, but it should've been mentioned.

Second, the 1994 Penske pushrod Mercedes didn't hit 250mph at the Speedway, nor has any vehicle to this day.

[R. Pare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy-HW0zsGSI

[Bardahl77]

Second, the 1994 Penske pushrod Mercedes didn't hit 250mph at the Speedway, nor has any vehicle to this day.

Penske team manager Jon Bouslog recalls that during practice for Indy: "They used to give us speed reports that had the trap speeds of each car at certain points of the track," Bouslog says. "I remember looking at the times and you would see 238mph, 235, 237, 234. Then one of our cars would go by and you would see 255.


"When everybody saw that, their eyes popped out."

[R. Pare]

https://racer.com/2014/05/24/indy-500-the-250mph-club/

[E1pix]

Thanks for posting this, well done.

[Rick Kirchner]

In that Race Tech article they claimed another big straw in the camel's basket was when Adrian Fernandez won at Motegi. Evidently, Penske and the other owners that distributed update kits were pretty happl just schlepping the latest and greatest as a "must have" to everybody. I suspect that there was insufficient data on just how much better a lot of that stuff was, and people just took their word for it.

Fernandez has a low-budget team, brought out last year's car and guess what - paid attention to their notes - which were relevant because the car was the same as last year. They worked from their baseline and tuned it, while everybody else was trying to get a baseline.

At that point I understand several teams started to question the parts update gravy train that they were feeding.

[dalz]

Yes, there were trap speed over 250

This contradicts the information offered by the late Tim Wardrop, longtime crew chief and responsible for Arie Luyendyk's record-setting car in 1996. He has an extensive thread over on the leading Indycar fan forum. To whit--

On the fastest lap ever recorded at the Speedway, Arie's Fast Friday happy hour effort of 239.2mph, his speed into T1 was 244 and into T3 was 247, aided by a tailwind and a car some distance ahead. This certainly the fastest a "conventional" Cosworth powered car ever got going in a straight line at Indy.

As for the boutique high-hp cars (Buick, Menard, Mercedes), the 1994 Penske cars possiblty had the potential to top 250, with over 1000hp available, but they were never caught going that fast, and most likely didn't. After all, Al Jr.'s fastest lap of the month was 229, on his pole-winning run. They didn't have to push the envelope, they had everyone covered.

It seems Pruett got caught up in the lore of the bygone era, which the former drivers and crew members are always happy to feed him, and which he is prone to do.

[dalz]

Once speeds go above 240 or so, you're talking exponential power increases to keep going faster, even with a little aero jellybean of a car. The fastest speed ever at Le Mans was 252mph, before the Mulsanne chicanes, in a WM Peugeot built just to set the record before the engine was meat. A.J. Foyt went 257mph around a massive test track in the Oldsmobile Aerotech, a 1400hp streamliner. I believe it's implausible that 250 was reached at Indy with open-wheel race-legal cars.

[E1pix]

Price Cobb told me — (on a golf course, which was not an indicator of his other brilliance) — that they trimmed the 1989 Jag for a session to specifically see what top end it would do.

256. Not hard to imagine, I think the fastest trap in a 917 was 236, 1970 or probably ‘71, presumably with a big draft.

I believe Price in absolutes, and this was only a few years after (1994). If memory serves, either they did not use the chicanes or they weren’t built yet, but I am a little vague about that part. It seems there may have been other tweaks that wouldn’t pass Tech.

He also said it felt no different than the 956 had — until looking out the side window! One of the very few times he was scared in a non-crash moment... ever.

He wasn’t prone to exaggeration, except when having us score 10 on a hole I knew he’d shot a 9. The guy is a blast.

Edit: Googled, this doesn’t confirm my 236 — but does claim the speed record “in a race” is 253:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muls...raight#History

It’s quite possible there’s been a faster single speed than Price’s or the others.

[dalz]

If memory serves, either they did not use the chicanes or they weren’t built yet, but I am a little vague about that part.

The chicanes were built and first used for the 1990 race.

seems there may have been other tweaks that wouldn’t pass Tech.

So, it wasn't legal.

Edit: Googled, this doesn’t confirm my 236 — but does claim the speed record “in a race” is 253:

Seriously, Wiki?

It’s quite possible there’s been a faster single speed than Price’s or the others.

No it isn't.

Fastest top speeds is kind of the Bigfoot sightings of our sport, unfortunately.

[E1pix]

Price is known for his honesty. So am I.

Wiki confirms your Peugeot quote as the fastest official speed in a race, they say 253, you said 252, maybe one was rounded up or down from kmh. Other sources say the same thing about that Peugeot car. That car wasn’t just built for a speed record, it ran a few of the 24 hours and DNFed.

Edit: As said, it seems they did “something” beyond flattening the aero. Whether that was running underweight, or whatever, I’m not sure. It wasn’t done in the race, if I see him again I’ll ask (that was easier when we lived 20 miles apart).