Singin’ the Starter Motor Blues ????

[tppj]

Lola T-440, still restoring a basket case. The starter that came with the car bolts up just fine, but the Bendix gear does not extend all the way to the flywheel. It’s a reman Hitachi, P/N S13-62C. I would like to avoid buying a Tilton ($$$$$$). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Tom

[Jerry Kehoe]

How far away is the gear? If it's close you might be able to thin the starter flange or mill a bit of the mounting flange from the adapter. Certainly is an odd looking starter, might look for other rebuilt starters to see if any have more flexibility.

[Thomas Wirtz]

Your second photo looks as though the gear distance is normal.
In the other photos you have the starter solenoid removed.
Did you have installed when you applied battery power ?
If working properly the solenoid will extend 3/4 to 1 inch and
spin to engage the flywheel. I would properly reinstall (not always easily done)
the solenoid and apply power from a fully charged battery to see how it works.
If it's faulty look into having it rebuilt. to save yourself $$$

[Purple Frog]

As Wirtz stated, the pinion only engages with the flywheel when solenoid is energized.

[Charlie Schmidt]

Given that the unit is a Hitachi, if you rebuild it, get a spare solenoid at that time

just sayin'

[Charlie Schmidt]

Given that the unit is a Hitachi, if you rebuild it, get a spare solenoid at that time

just sayin'...

[DanW]

Marc refurbishes and modifies Hitachi starters.

marc871@msn.com
630-279-8834

[cgscgs]

I have a Bushman starter which engaged only 1/8" when new. After a few years of (ab)use the wear on pinion and ring gear caused it to disengage occasionally while cranking. Marc told me how to shim the pinion shaft so it extended a bit further, giving me a couple of more years before I had to replace the ring gear and pinion.

Thanks Marc Bushman!

[tppj]

The unit was fully assembled and in the car when we tried it. We were testing to see if the engine would crank over (finally getting to the point of running the motor). The starter spins but does not reach the flywheel. We then removed it and energized it on the bench. The gear extends as it should, I think we measured 1.5” extension, which seems like it should be enough. The one pic shows the gear from the back of the car, achieved by removing an access plate. It’s short by maybe half an inch.

[tppj]

It’s close. The half-inch estimate was based on the notion that the gear should be on the flywheel full width as apposed to just barely grabbing it.

[J Leonard]

Are there different flywheels?

[APEowner]

I may be completely off base on this but I seem to recall that the T440 had an unusual bell housing or bell housing adapter and maybe a spacer between the flywheel and the crank. Did I make that up? If not is that possibly the issue?

[kea]

I may be completely off base on this but I seem to recall that the T440 had an unusual bell housing or bell housing adapter and maybe a spacer between the flywheel and the crank. Did I make that up? If not is that possibly the issue?

There is no spacer between the crank and flywheel.
The vehicle was designed for a Lucas inertia starter, so any other starter type would require attention (adjustment) to it's set-up to work properly.

[Earley Motorsports]

The second photo shows it appears to be pretty close if that is in the not being in the turning position and it should reach the flywheel. When you tested it out of the car, did you try moving the starter motor around as in tilting it to see if the pinion still kicks out like it should. If there is a problem with the internal flick out arm (don't know its real name) it may not be pushing the pinion out if not completely level or at a slight down hill. Just a thought.

[Charles Warner]

The vehicle was designed for a Lucas inertia starter, so any other starter type would require attention (adjustment) to it's set-up to work properly.

Is it possible the original Lucas starter was a "pull''" engagement and the flywheel is beveled to accept the engagement from the other side?

[DaveW]

Is it possible the original Lucas starter was a "pull''" engagement and the flywheel is beveled to accept the engagement from the other side?

Way back when I ran a Lucas starter, it was always a "push" setup from the front. In most (all?) of my cars with that, there was an extension between the starter shaft and the pinion to move the starter even further forward.

[Jerry Kehoe]

Years ago before the denso starters were around Steve Jennings had me install an additional battery to make 24 volts to the lovely Lucas starter in my BT29 with a FVC in it. Worked like a champ , one quick touch of the starter button and instant spin and start.

[Robert J. Alder]

As I recall the starter ring gear isn't symmetrical, front to back, and can be attached to the flywheel either way. One way is better suited to the starters used today (pushed into the ring gear from the front) versus the old Lucas starters which pulled the bendix in from behind. Could this be contributing to your "blues" ?

[tppj]

I sent the starter to Marc Bushman in Chicago. Marc inspected it and told me that it is a Hitachi for an Isuzu, but is not modified or enhanced in any way for racing. Also, the mounting holes being modified to an oval shape could potentially cause the unit to “walk” out of position. As for the gear not reaching, the only conclusion he could draw was the same one we did: machine the mounting flange to make it thin enough so that it advances the gear a little. That didn’t seem like a great idea to me, so I ordered a new starter from Marc. That way, it will have the tweaks that he has developed to improve its performance and reliability. At $385 it’s not cheap, but it’s a couple of hundred dollars less than a Tilton from Pegasus, and with his mods, it is more reliable. Many thanks to all for your ideas and suggestions!