1971 LeGrande FB roller

[Rick Iverson]

here

No affiliation

[john f]

Transaxle is worth the price alone!

john f

[ric baribeault]

Transaxle is worth the price alone!

john f

Exactly what I was thinking. And there's some twin cams around for sale

[DanW]

Transaxle is worth the price alone!

john f

I was thinking the same thing. Note that it's a tub car. I would imagine after 46 years the tub will need a visit to Marc Bahner. Get out the checkbook. Usually Marc replicates the original tube and moves the chassis plate across.

Since it's one of two, there will be some pieces that will have to be fabricated from scratch if they are missing or need to be replaced. This one is definitely above my pay grade.

[Lola_T360]

Was car of Rick Lempe (now called Rick Sutherland) in 1982/83

[gerhard_k]

I was thinking the same thing. Note that it's a tub car. I would imagine after 46 years the tub will need a visit to Marc Bahner. Get out the checkbook. Usually Marc replicates the original tube and moves the chassis plate across.

Since it's one of two, there will be some pieces that will have to be fabricated from scratch if they are missing or need to be replaced. This one is definitely above my pay grade.

Just saw this thread, sadly the CL link says "listing withdrawn" so I can't see the photo(s).

But if it's a 1971 LeGrand monocoque, I can say I (basically) designed this car! I had been racing a Mk.6 LeGrand FB in 1968 and '69, in the "pro" series and SoCal SCCA races, and had a big crash in Turn 1 Riverside in practice for the supporting club races for the L A Times GP Can-Am in October '69. Broke both legs, and while hobbling around with casts, talked with Red and laid out the basic geometry for the 'next' FB car, basically using the Mk.6 suspension, with some mods for the ever-increasing wheel and tire widths.

One of Red's marketing advantages was always that his cars were big enough for large American bodies that often just could not fit into British cockpits - I'm 6'3" and remember trying to get into a BT-29 - not even close! Would have needed 3" cutouts in the instrument bulkhead for my knees…

Anyway, although my memory apparently isn't what I think I remember it being ;-} I thought at least 4 Mk.14's were built; I know one of them raced with decent success in SoCal races in 1971-2; and at the Sept. 2012 Elkhart Lake Vintage races, I talked with George Widich who was there with the Mk.14 that he had purchased the year before from Ron Hornig (didn't get any history from before that). They said the basic chassis was very strongly built and had required little cleaning up. So - good luck with the car!

Oh, and just for historical correctness - it's LeGrand, without the final "e" please.

Btw, there's a nice history of Red's endeavours at http://sports.racer.net/chassis/legrand/history.htm - quoting the pertinent parts:

The Mk14 was an attempt to produce full monocoque cars, and apparently the experiment failed in that no other cars were built of this construction. Red himself suggested that this was a very expensive construction technique and almost impossible to repair.
The 1972 Mk14 was the most radical and advanced car LeGrand was to build. A replacement for the aging Mk6 FB car, the Mk14 featured a fully monocoque chassis, the only LeGrand to use this construction, and had the potential to move LeGrand Racecars from the ranks of club racer to the professionals. The chassis was beautifully made, was reasonably light and very stiff, able to get the power to the wheels. Front and rear wings were now standard fare in 1972. Only 2{?} examples of Mk14 cars were reported to have been built.

- Gerhard

[DanW]

Gerhard,

Thanks so much for the history, that's amazing to hear.

I am racing this weekend with Mike Edick of MTE Engineering, who is racing a Legrand MK21F FF. Mike is also a former employee of LeGrand, a whole 3 months worth. Mike has the employee work shirt to prove it too.

We are out here pedaling our old Club Fords as fast as we can and having a great time.

Thanks again.

Dan Wise

[dragonbill]

Gerhard, Great Story! Just one point: you mention " the Mk14 featured a fully monocoque chassis, the only LeGrand to use this construction" , I believe this is true for the F cars, but the MK 25 sportsracer was full monocoque also.

[Tom Irwin]

Gerhard,

Thanks so much for the history, that's amazing to hear.

I am racing this weekend with Mike Edick of MTE Engineering, who is racing a Legrand MK21F FF. Mike is also a former employee of LeGrand, a whole 3 months worth. Mike has the employee work shirt to prove it too.

We are out here pedaling our old Club Fords as fast as we can and having a great time.

Thanks again.

Dan Wise

Michael is very talented and builds racing car frames at home for some major marquee's

[DanW]

Agreed, Mike does excellent work.

So, who bought the Mk 14?

[Plarro]

Gerhard,

Thanks for the post ! I have a question perhaps you can answer as you worked for Red.

I have a Legrand MK 15 Super Vee. Basically it's a rolling chassis, but I do have all the original drawings, brochures, parts lists, set up sheets and also the SCCA logbook (and some cardboard "templates" with Red's notes on them for some suspension bits). LeGrand aluminum wheels, all original suspension, original Hewland MK 8, etc. It was sold originally to a Tom Evans, who raced it under Lavia Porsche / Audi sponsorship.

The question is - do you know if this was the only MK 15 that was built or sold ?
I do know of a MK 12 Super Vee that is now in the Lane Motor Museum, but it is looking by my research that this MK 15 may have been the only one built. It uses the "stressed skin" aluminum over the tube frame.

Just wondering what you may know about the car. I need to sell the chassis and Hewland (to many other projects). Tough to know what it's worth.

Thanks for any input you might have !

P Larro

[Riekenberg]

My stepdad, Gene Forsthofel, bought one of them and we took it down to Mexico for the F/Continental races in Monterey and Mexico City. The other car was transported down there by Red. Neither of the cars had wings and couldn't compete with the Lola T240's or the BT29's. I worked on the car from the time I was 15 and then used it for some Regional events later in 1973 AFTER we had put a Rotary/Wankel in the tub and raced in STL and Lake Garnett KS. Dad was always trying the new and untested! The other chassis was brought to Mexico for James King but he didn't like the car after driving in Mexico and Red took it back to California. I have lots of pictures assembled and not of this car and the MK7A F/5000 that he owned before that.

[Riekenberg]

The Mk 14 we had when new had an aluminum upper body and nose. We later modified to have radiators on the side at the back and added wings on front and back. The second version of this was a baby blue Gelcoat that James King drove in Mexico City and Monterey Mx in June 1971. The bodywork on top was fiberglass as was the nose.  He didn't like the car and Red took it back to California. The original car had very poor brake lines, plastic, and a hydraulically actuated throttle both of which were problematic. Both were replaced when we returned to the US. The wings were added in July 1971. We raced the car in 71 as a FB. We then were given 5 Rotary Wankel's from Mazda and raced that car as an F5000 or F1 under the rules that allowed the conversion. The engines had issues with apex seals and all were pretty much turned into water pumps when the rotors pierced the "cylinder" walls.

The car was sold in the summer of 1973. Its last successful outing with the rotary was Lake Garnett in 1972.

[Gwidich]

So this car is now in AZ. I have it torn apart to give it a much needed refurbish so it was nice to see the original color and livery in your earlier photo. It looks Burgandy in that photo but after I pulled a small plate that reinforced the side radiators I found some Red paint under it so I don't know if that was the original or not.
I have relocated the radiator back to the front and I changed the profile on the nose a bit.


George Widich

The Mk 14 we had when new had an aluminum upper body and nose. We later modified to have radiators on the side at the back and added wings on front and back. The second version of this was a baby blue Gelcoat that James King drove in Mexico City and Monterey Mx in June 1971. The bodywork on top was fiberglass as was the nose.  He didn't like the car and Red took it back to California. The original car had very poor brake lines, plastic, and a hydraulically actuated throttle both of which were problematic. Both were replaced when we returned to the US. The wings were added in July 1971. We raced the car in 71 as a FB. We then were given 5 Rotary Wankel's from Mazda and raced that car as an F5000 or F1 under the rules that allowed the conversion. The engines had issues with apex seals and all were pretty much turned into water pumps when the rotors pierced the "cylinder" walls.

The car was sold in the summer of 1973. Its last successful outing with the rotary was Lake Garnett in 1972.