Simulator costs

[Jnovak]

Since this imo will be a very brief SCCA road racing season, i am considering getting a similator. After loking at a few websites i see prices from a few $$$ to huge $$$ how about some reasonable recommendations from those with some experience to get me started?

[Keith Carter]

Hi Jay, Still haven't pulled the trigger on a sim rig, huh? Not much has changed in the past several years as far as costs and front runners of the sim hardware business since we last exchanged DMs, but here is another post summarizing a similar question in another thread.

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post597267

[Kazis31]

Fanatec is the best.
price of course reflects it.

$700 to $3000 per system.

I bought f1 special year ago for 499
love it.
for S4
or Xbox.

[Kazis31]

Project Cars 2 best feedback
Assetto Corsa best graphics and cars.

nothing close comes near.
so 1000 should set up up nice.

Entry level open wheel teams use Project Cars two for new drivers.

[Jamesbe]

Really? I hate project cars 2, feels so fake to me. First one was good.

I've concentrated on assetto and like it.

I think it's all what you get use to.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[Kazis31]

project cars and asseto in VR is crazy .
you would almost trow up if spin.

[Jamesbe]

I only play in VR. Fanatec setup with oculus. I've spent a good 800 hours on it. Has improved my driving for sure.

You get use to VR after awhile, use to feel sick if I reversed but not an issue anymore. I can hop on and do 2 or 3 hour races no problem.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[Jnovak]

Thanks everone. This will get me started.

[mmi16]

Since this imo will be a very brief SCCA road racing season, i am considering getting a similator. After loking at a few websites i see prices from a few $$$ to huge $$$ how about some reasonable recommendations from those with some experience to get me started?

Just like in our real world of racing - Speed Cost money, how fast do you want to go?

[SvenUSA]

As someone who has got into the real cars because of the simulator racing I can promise you $$$ doesn't equal speed. I used a Logitech G27 clamped to my desk for many years and only just upgraded to Fanatec and a Simetik K2 simulator. The real question is what do you want? You can get a Logitech G27/G29 and use a desk and be done for about $200, or you can get a full Fanatec set with a proper simulator and triple monitors for about $1500. Do you need a computer too? The setup I have below cost me about $1500. I opted for a 34" ultrade monitor rather than triple monitors and VR as I tried those too but they made me motion sick.

[phantomjock]

Just like in our real world of racing - Speed Cost money, how fast do you want to go?

Or - REAL....

Higher fidelity is always more money. I spent 4 years testing sims for the USAF when I was recalled to Active Duty (2009-2013). Back when I was flying we had "procedural" training devices. They were good for basics - let's say in the racing world - "Heal and Toe". They were also good for switchology, emergency procedures, and some rudimentary tactics. They all got better over time, and in the late 70s -- we even started getting basic video! Wow a tanker rendezvous on screen with "Pong" style video!

Seems like the racing sims are getting better too, and PC power has made that all happen. The models seem to be very accurate replicas of real race cars, setup, aero, etc. But when you add motion - add surround video, just add more money. But, I bet there is a still a thrill and the chance to keep your hand in the game, and work some wheel-to-wheel, at much lower costs than a weekend at the track.

Who knows - Might be worth the cost of a "roller" for a full-time off season trainer. Now, if I just could sell this boat in a down market!

But sims will never replace the real deal. We had to always acknowledge that in the AF.

Cheers - Jim

[Lotus7]

Fanatec is the best.
price of course reflects it.

$700 to $3000 per system.

I bought f1 special year ago for 499
love it.
for S4
or Xbox.

Up to $3000 for the best?
need to put that in context...
there was a simulator set up at Sebring last year that arrived unassembled in a box trailer; 6 axis seat, hydraulic and stepper motor driven movement, 3 screens, $75,000 before the additional cost of track-specific software.
our drivers claimed the experience was uncanny.....

[Kazis31]

i meant home style Fanatec system
new one is Direct drive(no belts) and just a wheel with housing is almost 2k .

Fanatec is best for home applications.

I think for 75k formula Atlantic will do the job......lol
might be more realistic as well.

[Ed Womer]

Last year at the Rolex the Grassroots Motor Sports tent had a three axis motion set up with three screens and all the bells and whistles and I did try it out and it was nice driving around Daytona in a prototype car. Even though i am not a regular sim person and don't have even a simple set up, the big thing I see is even with the three axis movement I still don't get the seat of the pants feeling like doing it for real. I think they said it was 50K for the setup.

The other big thing is you can never get hurt in a sim and it might teach users to ignore that until if ever they get to do it in real life and find out the hard way what real life can do to you.

Ed

[lowside67]

In my opinion, the "requirements" for maximum reality are different than for maximum lap times on a sim.

In general, a relatively cheap wheel doesn't feel quite as good but is unlikely to make much difference on your actual lap times in the simulator. On the other hand, good pedals both feel better/more realistic and can produce tangible results in improving your braking and therefore lap times.

Motion won't do anything at all for lap times, it's just for fun. When you think about a stiffly sprung aero car, the actual "motion" the car goes through is very little, it's all G forces which the motion can't do anything about. To me motion is unrealistic and detracts from the experience.

-Mark

[Jamesbe]

100%agree with above.

Load cell pedals a minimum requirement. A good wheel isn't required but sure helps it feel more real.

After that g forces come for free when I lean into the turns

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[John LaRue]

I think Mark has summed it up pretty well. Last December at PRI I took time to sample the offerings of the motion sims. From a formula car driver's perspective the motion was a detraction. The operators said they could tame it down, but had it set high to show the capabilities. If you tame it down then why have it in the first place.

[swiftdrivr]

Load cell brake; pressure sensitive, not motion sensitive. The rest is less important., but make sure you have a computer that will run something worth using. My new laptop hasn't got a good graphix card, so it only runs rFactor original, and actually, I can't make that run either.

[Keith Carter]

I have yet to drive in a motion rig that feels like driving a real car. As far as other necessities, a load cell brake pedal is almost essential. An expensive wheel is nice, but isn't worth that much in lap times. I have recently added a couple of different things though in order to add to the immersion. I haven't done VR yet, but it's high up on my list of upgrades. Utilizing Simhub, I've added a transducer for vibration effects as well as a wind simulator to give a sense of movement as well as a cell phone dash... all done for cheap. It's still not the real thing, but every little bit helps.

[Keith Carter]

Comparison of cheap wheel vs expensive wheel:

[swiftdrivr]

I have yet to drive in a motion rig that feels like driving a real car. As far as other necessities, a load cell brake pedal is almost essential. An expensive wheel is nice, but isn't worth that much in lap times. I have recently added a couple of different things though in order to add to the immersion. I haven't done VR yet, but it's high up on my list of upgrades. Utilizing Simhub, I've added a transducer for vibration effects as well as a wind simulator to give a sense of movement as well as a cell phone dash... all done for cheap. It's still not the real thing, but every little bit helps.

I see the Iconel exhaust and the sparkplug wires in the lower picture, but what is the red thing? Fancy coil?

[Keith Carter]

That's the transducer (Buttkicker Gamer). Think of it as a subwoofer without the speaker.

[Garey Guzman]

Will a PS3 be sufficient to run these?

[Keith Carter]

Will a PS3 be sufficient to run these?

Sorry, Gary. Consoles are really lacking when it comes to racing sims. Assetto Corsa for XBO and PS4 is the closest option to being a sim. For a PS3, the only option you have is Gran Turismo 5 and 6.

[phantomjock]

So like many of you, I have a race car sitting in my garage. I'd like to be able to "practice" but the old-lady down the street called the Sheriff on me - so that is out! (Really did happen - but was just a data warm up at 15-20 mph!)

I'd like to have a sim, but hard to justify another racing expense. Then why not use some clever engineering to adapt my car to the purpose? If I didn't have to buy:

Special built Wheel
Special built Pedals (say load cell)
Big Screen
Fancy new graphics card for computer.

Then, I'd follow the white rabbit and buy new chair, and all the rest of ensemble for all the equipment.

Maybe I could justify a nice VR setup and associated PC upgrades? I see VRs use motion control often through wrist cuffs for movements - what about your feet? I know nothing about this gear. But, just maybe you could use onboard data acquisition devices for pedal and steering? String pot for steering and load cells on pedals? Certainly needs more than a few line of code to tie it all together. Maybe some interface box? Or maybe a clever opportunity for a data acquisition business to develop an interface unit? Something that plugs into my system.

At least with the car jacked up, could have near real steering wheel feedback, and pedal pressures are realistic.

In 2016, four Hungarian engineers worked sort of the same idea using an Audi TT (URL to Research Gate: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ation_Purposes).


A comment in the report:

The unique feature of this simulator system is that the HMI of the simulator is a cockpit of a real car, which can also be driven as a normal vehicle on the real test track.

Some other folks have used CAN-bus equipped vehicles - but I have neither the CAN-bus in my car, or the MATHLAB expertise to pull that "dream" together. Heck - there is even an opensource (Comma.ai self driving car autopilot URL: https://comma.ai/) based on the "openpilot" self flying UAV project. So there is complementary programming activity underway.

Lewis Hamilton (like him or not) has voiced some of the same opinions we used to have in the military, but my more recent experience (2009-2013) proved aircraft sims had come a long way as had their more positive transference. At least a device as I've "dreamed" would be the "real cockpit" and you could probably get some good track study, line, break points, etc without watching someone else's YT video.

Or maybe - just use YT and somebody's track video (a good one) and sit in the car and try and follow their trace around the track? May not need full VR - but just video on your phone and head mount. Could be an opportunity to create some good visual stimulation and muscle memory. Turn in and footwork wouldn't be as close as desired - but it would be a great "Procedural Trainer." At least better than sitting at the desk watching YT.

Oh well, this idea came to me the other night while sleeping, so may it was just a dream.
If you find me sitting in the cockpit - please ignore my zoom-zoom noises.

Cheers - Jim

If you don't want to sign into Research Gate - I could forward a copy of the paper - just send a PM.

[Rick Iverson]

I have yet to drive in a motion rig that feels like driving a real car.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hVt0w68kMgc, and at a mere £35,000. But the VAT is included!

[Daryl DeArman]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hVt0w68kMgc, and at a mere £35,000. But the VAT is included!

Pretty cool set up. I still don't know how you get the feedback through the seat without any G'forces, just bumps and feeling rake and roll.

[mikey]

https://www.eight360.com/

this is the only rig I’m interested in.

[DanW]

https://www.eight360.com/

this is the only rig I’m interested in.

I hope it includes a barf bag close at hand.