Help Identify this Lola

[2fast2stop]

I'm trying to find any information on this T328 Lola Super Vee. No chassis tag or numbers on roll bar. It looks like it has the Lola water cooled engine conversion kit from years ago. The MK9 is mounted in the standard position, not flipped as in an air cooled car. Someone spent considerable time fabricating the aluminum side pods, nose/wing assembly, front hoop/bracing, main hoop/bracing, pedal assembly with a separate left foot braking pedal and other unique mods. Gotta be someone out there that recognizes this car..........

Thanks,

FGM

[marshall9]

Interesting.
To me, roll bar braces seem weak for a Lola.

[Garey Guzman]

Looks similar to my T326 from the parts I can see but with the different nose and no tail cover, can't tell any more with the bodywork on.

[fvracerone1]

Could this have been something other than a SV? All SV's I seen had Hewland inverted....SF? European formula series (Renault, Chrysler?)

[2fast2stop]

Here are a few more pictures w/o bodywork. Haven't got the side pods off yet. The bottom picture is of a factory 326 tub with no front roll hoop. and yes the gearbox is in the wrong position but not for a watercooled SV........

.

[Garey Guzman]

Picture of my T326, HU71

I think the T324/6/8 were all very similar. Most T328's had w/c engines from what I've read. Mine is a/c

[Steve Demeter]

The red braces from the main hoop forward and the red X from the dash forward are most definitely NOT Lola. Someone updated these.

The OEM Lola bracing was really flimsy. On my T-328 with the rear facing brace to the top of the engine case unhooked I could wiggle the main hoop fore and aft with one hand.

Sidepods remind me of Pete Heckmans T-326 from 79/80. Not sure where it went after that but when he had it he had it as AC.

[2fast2stop]

The red braces from the main hoop forward and the red X from the dash forward are most definitely NOT Lola. Someone updated these.

The OEM Lola bracing was really flimsy. On my T-328 with the rear facing brace to the top of the engine case unhooked I could wiggle the main hoop fore and aft with one hand.

Sidepods remind me of Pete Heckmans T-326 from 79/80. Not sure where it went after that but when he had it he had it as AC.

The 324/326/328 never had an actual front roll hoop, just part of the aluminum monocoque supporting the instrument panel. The engine bay bracing is not at all like the AC cars. The shifter linkage is relocated and the bracing supports a rear bulkhead, not the AC engine block like it should. It looks more like a WC conversion. The bottom picture shows a 326 with the Lola factory WC conversion that was available in the late '70's

[Steve Demeter]

all I know is that my T-328 came directly from Carl brand new with a brace from the top of the hoop to the back of the engine case.

It also had a "front hoop" like the oP's pics show. But to call it a roll hoop is probably a misstaatement on my part as it had no bracing what soever, just served to hang the dash on and to help keep the pontoons separated like the aluminum structure in the recent pics.

[E1pix]

I've never owned one of these but had many friends who did in the day, so take this with a heavy salt grain. Steve would know *much* better, regardless...

This to me looks like a T340 or T342 FF converted to a SV. The cockpit is clearly all Lola, but the nose strikes me as split on the level to raise the top higher, possibly to add the canards... but neither the nose nor pods are anything like Lola did.

Aside, Lola offered no "factory" pods anyway, though Herm Johnson and/or Noel Bennett made custom pods few ran — but not like yours. Do you see any signs inside the nose of a fiberglassed height modification?

I can't comment on mechanical differences between the Lola FF and the FSVs, so again, pepper this with many grains of salt if those are already clear to you.

I have a faded memory of someone doing a nose just *exactly* this in FF, and wish I could recall who. Seems like it was a Nor Pac car... Billy Scyphers keeps entering my thoughts on that, but likely in err. I don't think anyone did this on a SV in the day, at least not on a Pro car.

I do recall the Heckmann car, but not it having side pods. Doesn't mean it didn't later on, but it was Lola blue and used a standard sports car nose.

Keith Averill comes to mind as one who may know more.

It'd be great to know more about this car's history! Best in finding that.

[stonebridge20]

An aluminum tub FF ?

Yea,...........No !

[2fast2stop]

It could never have been a FF as the rules do not allow an aluminum monocoque chassis, only a tubular steel space frame. The four braces in the engine bay were never on an AC car. The rear of the 620 tub is very similar to the rear of the 326/328 tubs. When you compare the engine bay bracing of the 620 it looks almost identical to the 326/328 W/C conversion kit from Lola. A friend of mine who has a 620 agrees with me. This car is missing the v-shaped trunnions and engine mounts.

[E1pix]

Glad to be proven wrong, Thanks for clarifying.

I hope the owner finds some history and we get to hear about it.

[Steve Demeter]

2 fast I think you nailed it. T-328 converted to water cooled. Lola sold tons of kits to do exactly that.

[2fast2stop]

2 fast I think you nailed it. T-328 converted to water cooled. Lola sold tons of kits to do exactly that.

Yea, now if I can find any history about the car, since there is no chassis tag or log book stamp, that would really do the trick. Someone out there should recognize this car with all of the unique changes that were made to it.


Here is a picture of my T250 we just finished. Bought it in a box, took 2 years. Would like to do the same to this car.........

[Alice Ashmore]

This is a long shot, but it could be the Noel Bennett AC chassis. The only clue for me is the catch bottle setup on the
master cylinders, which I did in period. The original sidepods were aluminum and had no radiused edges. The car was
crashed at Mid Ohio requiring a new tub from Haas which may explain some of the mystery. I believe it started life as a
324 but not sure. Bennett raced it for 1-1/2 seasons, retiring after the Mid Ohio crash. The car was sold on with the new
replacement tub, after I re-tubbed it possibly with the wrecked tub which had front end damage only. The car was originally
red gel cote from Haas, but was re-painted yellow for the second season. If it is the Bennett car, it has some history, as it
won the oval race at Milwaukee in the yellow livery with the original tub. As i said it's a long shot but may be of some help.

Regards,
Mike Wolther

[E1pix]

This is great to read, and of particular use to the OP I suspect.

I recall Noel making pods as mentioned, but am unclear if they were the same as Hermie's — and if Noel made the shovel noses like Herm used. It seems Bill Henderson ran the pods also, in 1976, which would make sense geographically. The nose on this car is still confusing to me, maybe a speedway nose I never saw run (?).

Sadly or not, I have photos of Noel in this car (if indeed it is), but Alas, they're unscanned and in storage and we travel full-time.

I think we used to know each other, Mike, name is too familiar. I was Barker's sign guy the last ten years he was at PDR and worked with Wulff after, did Tempero's posters and art 1990-92, worked with Mike Snow, Laziers, Eddie Miller, et al.

Love the Flashback Effect. And racing in general. Even when I'm wrong.

[Steve Demeter]

The T-250 is absolutely gorgeous. Where are the oil cooler(s).?

[2fast2stop]

The T-250 is absolutely gorgeous. Where are the oil cooler(s).?

Thanks, two years on the making.........the oil cooler is in the factory position behind the tail. We plan on making sidepods (similar to the drawing) so we can run two coolers and give it an updated look.We designed the SC nose and it's light and strong as hell. There are a couple of things that I'm not happy with on the nose so we're tweaking the mold to improve those areas. I'll be selling them when ready.

I got a bit off track, I would really like to find the history on this 326/328. I'm pulling off the sidepods this week and disassembling it down to the tub to see if the chassis tag was hidden somewhere else.........

[2fast2stop]

Today we did find faint remnants of an SCCA tech sticker. Had some initials and the year 1976 on it. Tearing it down Thursday.

[Garey Guzman]

Today we did find faint remnants of an SCCA tech sticker. Had some initials and the year 1976 on it. Tearing it down Thursday.

Well, now you know it's a T326 or earlier. There are drawing on the Lola Heritage website and if there are differences between T324/6 cars, maybe even T320/2/4. I'm not a Lola or FSV expert but will be happy to share anything about my T326, which has been a/c it's whole life.

[E1pix]

Today we did find faint remnants of an SCCA tech sticker. Had some initials and the year 1976 on it.

Cool.

And consistent with the Noel Bennett theory (as are the pods):
https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/noel-bennett/

Only 12 T326s were even built. I'd hope this search can be solved based on Mike recognizing his work, that info is a pot of gold that often takes years to dig up.

Pre-Congrats.

[Garey Guzman]

I contacted the Lola Heritage website and the previous owner had done a lot of research with them regarding my car. Mine has the original gearbox and the Hewland was confirmed to be from HU-71, which I believe was the 2nd T326. Gerald was very helpful!

[2fast2stop]

I contacted the Lola Heritage website and the previous owner had done a lot of research with them regarding my car. Mine has the original gearbox and the Hewland was confirmed to be from HU-71, which I believe was the 2nd T326. Gerald was very helpful!

Garey, the rear wing is definitely from a 326 (the 2 bolts in the fairing) because the 324 wing on my 250 is different. I was going to contact Gerald at Lola Hertage and have him backtrack the gearbox S/N but it's a MK9 which didn't come in those cars, so another dead end.

[Garey Guzman]

So the number on the Hewland plate is "H9-xxxx"?

[2fast2stop]

so the number on the hewland plate is "h9-xxxx"?

h9-5242..............

[2fast2stop]

I'm convinced this car began life as an A/C T328. It has the 328 dash and front roll hoop (braces were added). Someone did nice job on the left foot brake addition. The homemade cross member that is mounted to the bottom of the gearbox which the lower a-arms mount to is really crude. I've spent hours just looking at this car and scratching my head..........

[Steve Demeter]

The three switches on the LH dash hoop are definitely T-328 and possibly others as well. IIRC top was ignition, middle was fuel pumps and bottom was rain light. The fire button looks correct and in the proper place.

Believe it or not the lower rear cross member is pretty much how I remember it, but the attachment method to the box is not very clear in the pics. The outboard end with the spherical joint in the wishbone sandwiched between the sides of the "tube " is exactly correct.

[2fast2stop]

The three switches on the LH dash hoop are definitely T-328 and possibly others as well. IIRC top was ignition, middle was fuel pumps and bottom was rain light. The fire button looks correct and in the proper place.

Believe it or not the lower rear cross member is pretty much how I remember it, but the attachment method to the box is not very clear in the pics. The outboard end with the spherical joint in the wishbone sandwiched between the sides of the "tube " is exactly correct.

Since there is no water temp gauge on the dash all I can figure is that this was an A/C car that was in the process of being converted to W/C but never finished. There is an oil cooler in the right sidepod and nothing in the left.

[2fast2stop]

Well we just about have this car torn down to the tub, can't find anything to identify this car. Tub is in beautiful shape and almost looks like a rebuild. The area of the tub where the fuel bladders should be look brand new inside, no indication of ever having fuel bladders. The roll bar does have a Midwest Council Tech sticker from the late 70's. Still a mystery............

[E1pix]

The Council sticker is a big clue. Almost nobody raced with them in those days without living reasonably close to Chicago.

I do believe Peter Heckman was from the Chicago area. Gary Passon definitely was, but his car is found and in Britain. Jerry Schaub also was and had a deeper, non-Lola orange T324 in 1976, with lime green numbers and lower side panels, which after went to places unknown.

All to say if Midwest Council kept grid sheets, and I suspect they did, I'd bet very few T324/6/8s ever ran with that club in the late '70s -- leaving only Heckman to my recollection.

Obviously, it could have been bought somewhere else and sent to Chicago for someone I'm forgetting, but the Heckman time period, and hometown, and rarity of running a still-fast SV in Midwest Council all fit (as does the color). Then, the club was mostly used to build seat time heading towards Cen Div Nationals, or for journeymen racers seeking success at a lower budget.

Have you discounted Noel Bennett? It's at least plausible his car went to Heckman... I'm reasonably sure Noel's was a T326, possibly an updated 324, but definitely not a T328. Ever get with Mike Wolther?

Edit: North of Chicago was Wisconsin's David Hansen in a T324. LOL at forgetting this since it was the first of over 500 race cars I lettered or painted. That car was in Lola orange gel coat when I worked on it (April, 1977).

Rick Villate also raced a T324 out of Chicago in 1976 -- the ex-Eddie Miller title winner from 1975, owned by Carl Haas and then sold to Rick -- but not sure where it went. I know who'd know, though.

I discuss the Midwest cars specifically as being familiar with them, and the likelihood of yours originating around there being higher than not. A guy buying a MC-run Super Vee is probably likelier to have not shipped it from across the country than to have, in my opinion.

[2fast2stop]

The Council sticker is a big clue. Almost nobody raced with them in those days without living reasonably close to Chicago.

I do believe Peter Heckman was from the Chicago area. Gary Passon definitely was, but his car is found and in Britain. Jerry Schaub also was and had a deeper, non-Lola orange T324 in 1976, with lime green numbers and lower side panels, which after went to places unknown.

All to say if Midwest Council kept grid sheets, and I suspect they did, I'd bet very few T324/6/8s ever ran with that club in the late '70s -- leaving only Heckman to my recollection.

Obviously, it could have been bought somewhere else and sent to Chicago for someone I'm forgetting, but the Heckman time period, and hometown, and rarity of running a still-fast SV in Midwest Council all fit (as does the color). Then, the club was mostly used to build seat time heading towards Cen Div Nationals, or for journeymen racers seeking success at a lower budget.

Have you discounted Noel Bennett? It's at least plausible his car went to Heckman... I'm reasonably sure Noel's was a T326, possibly an updated 324, but definitely not a T328. Ever get with Mike Wolther?

Edit: North of Chicago was Wisconsin's David Hansen in a T324. LOL at forgetting this since it was the first of over 500 race cars I lettered or painted. That car was in Lola orange gel coat when I worked on it (April, 1977).

Rick Villate also raced a T324 out of Chicago in 1976 -- the ex-Eddie Miller title winner from 1975, owned by Carl Haas and then sold to Rick -- but not sure where it went. I know who'd know, though.

I discuss the Midwest cars specifically as being familiar with them, and the likelihood of yours originating around there being higher than not. A guy buying a MC-run Super Vee is probably likelier to have not shipped it from across the country than to have, in my opinion.

Thanks for the insight. I will contact a couple of guys I know that were MC Techs and pick their brains. Would you agree this is probably a T328 because of the front roll hoop and the "open" tub in the leg area.........

[E1pix]

You're welcome.

I do not know about roll hoop variances, Sorry.

I do know that Allen and Richard at OldRacingCars.com are building up F-Atlantic chassis info. Knowing how they do things, I really hope Super Vee is next -- chassis lineage seems to have forgotten this wonderful class.

Keep plugging along, and Good Luck.

[E1pix]

Wanted to add that a T328 wouldn't have a 1976 sticker on it unless parts were transferred from an older, 1976-spec car (T326).

[2fast2stop]

Wanted to add that a T328 wouldn't have a 1976 sticker on it unless parts were transferred from an older, 1976-spec car (T326).

That's why I'm thinking the tub is a rebuild................

[E1pix]

Agree based on what you've said -- so does that hairpin us right back to the Noel Bennett car?

The mystery is probably more fun for us than you, in a Kojak investigative template.

But I hope you solve this -- especially if the intent is to present it in its original guise and livery. I suspect a bit of paint scraping would reveal old color below. As I recall, the Bennett car was pale yellow when he last ran it. The Heckman car was Lola blue IIRC, though may have been darker blue.

I know Haas used to share records of color upon delivery, but without a humidor in Lake Forest anymore I've no idea of the company status now (which in of itself, I find more than a little sad).

[dc]

I know Haas used to share records of color upon delivery, but without a humidor in Lake Forest anymore I've no idea of the company status now (which in of itself, I find more than a little sad).

Newman-Haas Racing is still running full steam ahead, only without an active IndyCar team. Carl's wife runs the show now, and they have ALL of their Indy team cars in their facility in Lincolnshire, Illinois stacked up like models. It's a pretty spectacular facility. They do a lot of race car prep—including pro F2000s—as well as being a first-class source for race shock building and tuning. No sign of slowing down, either.

It's possible they may have information on the car should you get closer to nailing down its origins. I'm guessing they have never gotten rid of anything there based on what I have seen.

[2fast2stop]

Newman-Haas Racing is still running full steam ahead, only without an active IndyCar team. Carl's wife runs the show now, and they have ALL of their Indy team cars in their facility in Lincolnshire, Illinois stacked up like models. It's a pretty spectacular facility. They do a lot of race car prep—including pro F2000s—as well as being a first-class source for race shock building and tuning. No sign of slowing down, either.

It's possible they may have information on the car should you get closer to nailing down its origins. I'm guessing they have never gotten rid of anything there based on what I have seen.

I have four Lolas and have called many times. I was finally told that all records were thrown in the dumpster because they were taking up too much storage room............what a tragic loss.

[E1pix]

Newman-Haas Racing is still running full steam ahead, only without an active IndyCar team. Carl's wife runs the show now, and they have ALL of their Indy team cars in their facility in Lincolnshire, Illinois stacked up like models. It's a pretty spectacular facility. They do a lot of race car prep—including pro F2000s—as well as being a first-class source for race shock building and tuning. No sign of slowing down, either.

It's possible they may have information on the car should you get closer to nailing down its origins. I'm guessing they have never gotten rid of anything there based on what I have seen.

Appreciate that Doug, really good to hear!

I do recall sitting with Carl in his office with stacks of stuff when I was a kid, him knowing where everything was, me wondering How in the world…….???

I was already good friends with "Fast Eddie" Miller, the first young guy he tried bringing all the way up from Formula Ford — and the first to attempt Indy cars from this brand-new ladder format beyond Midgets > Sprints > Indy. I muttered my friendship to the receptionist and heard Carl call out "C'Mon in, any friend of Eddie's is a friend of mine!" I was 15 or so, early '76 I think.

39 years on it was I who sadly had to call Eddie to tell of Carl's end.

Mr. Haas was an enigma. He and Paul getting together was perfect, two of a kind. Both so real, and both sans any self-inflation whatsoever. As good as it gets in our sport.

I was always fascinated that a man of Carl's means never seemed able to afford a lighter. Prolly a good thing in the end.

Legend.


Sorry to divert, can't help it.

[E1pix]

I have four Lolas and have called many times. I was finally told that all records were thrown in the dumpster because they were taking up too much storage room............what a tragic loss.

Oh. No…