Are max tow capacity numbers trustworthy?

[Jerry Kehoe]

Dave is right on trailer brakes losing efficiency with age, wires coming off, etc. The smart move is every few years to replace the innards with a kit that includes shoes, magnet, wiring pigtails while you are checking or repacking the wheel bearings on the trailer. I think I paid about $33 per wheel for the kit from e.trailer.com and it looks like the kit is made by the original trailer brake company. It becomes cheap maintenance to do this and having any and all fail while towing more than makes up for it. We generally spend all of the time in the world on the race car and nothing on the trailer until it fails!

[DaveW]

... 3/4 ton brakes have more heat capacity but you don't need that if you don't overdrive/overbrake...

There is only 1 place I've found that we drive to races that challenges my braking capacity (1-ton 1974 G30 Chevy Van* with dual axle trailer, ~11,000 lb total - new electric trailer brakes 2 years ago) - the long downhill on Route 58 from I-77 to VIR. Just past the "Lover's Leap Overlook" going east there is no way to go down that steep grade w/o taxing everything. Can't slow the rig enough with the engine to help much (350CI V8 with Turbo-hydro 350 trans), so I have to really baby it down that incline keeping the speed below 25 mph.

The occasional semi goes down that grade at ~10 mph with the "Jake-brake" engaged...

Going any other route is too far out of the way.

So there are circumstances that one could use more brake capacity w/o overdriving. Of course, this is, to say the least, an unusual situation - using a 45-YO van for a tow vehicle. Just sayin' ...

*Disk front and huge 1-ton drum rear brakes, PFC brake pads for more temperature tolerance on the front

[dereklola]

Two comments -
- 1 - I've driven that section of US58 to VIR - once(!) - in my book that IS overdriving with our sort of rigs
- 1a - there are sensible alternatives - more miles but less driving time
- 1b - I used low gear at Lovers Leap - brakes were not needed

- 2 - like your race car your truck and trailer need maintenance
- 2a - were I live annual certification on both is mandatory (therefore annual maintenance)
- 2b - 10 year old truck needs new pads/shoes this year for first time
- 2c - 16 year old trailer needed new shoes 3 years ago for first time (will take Jerry's advice in future)
- 2d - trailer tires are replaced every three years (Apexspeed recommendation).

Drive it like an F1 car - drive 'gently' (not necessarily slowly) to make sure you complete your journey(s).

[DaveW]

...
- 1 - I've driven that section of US58 to VIR - once(!) - in my book that IS overdriving with our sort of rigs
- 1a - there are sensible alternatives - more miles but less driving time
- 1b - I used low gear at Lovers Leap - brakes were not needed...

We've taken the alternate routes. Since I limit my top speed to ~67 mph for durability and fuel mileage reasons, IMO, they take too long. And since I don't want to over-stress the engine, driveshaft, and transmission by descending in low gear for 3 or 4 miles straight, I use the brakes, which work fine, but they're close to their limit. I'd rather replace brake parts than need an engine or trans rebuild. This is based on my 45-year history with this van and knowing its weak spots. And I actually enjoy that part of the drive - it makes the trip more interesting.

YMMV.

[Richard Hybels]

All great comments, and very helpful to a number of people out there, but if you don't have $50K to $80K to spend on a tow vehicle (try $20K-$30K), some of those choices are not options.
Any solid choices in the $25K range from those with experience?

DK

i just bought a crew cab 2008 Ram 1500 4.7 with only 75k miles on it for $10k. I fail to see what a $25k truck of comparable specs will do better.
In my limited experience I conclude that worrying about braking is more important than what you can pull. I used to tow regular cars on a flat bed with a Dakota V8 and it was not a problem but stopping was. On a long down hill the front brakes would over heat.

[Jayeff]

i just bought a crew cab 2008 Ram 1500 4.7 with only 75k miles on it for $10k. I fail to see what a $25k truck of comparable specs will do better.
In my limited experience I conclude that worrying about braking is more important than what you can pull. I used to tow regular cars on a flat bed with a Dakota V8 and it was not a problem but stopping was. On a long down hill the front brakes would over heat.

I started out towing with a 1/2 ton pickup. It was un fun. Then I added helper springs and heavy-duty shocks but it was still a real job driving the rig. Crosswinds upset it, the trailer would push the truck all over the place and I was constantly correcting via the steering. Not to mention braking at all. And the truck struggled with the tongue weight even though it was rated to pull it. I eventually switched to a 3/4 ton, extended cab pick up. It was night and day better. the trailer was a breeze to pull, it was stable and I could tow a good bit faster without worry. I also have limited experience with a dually and it was another step up in stability, though I did not feel I needed it. Right now I use a GMC 3/4 ton van which is not as good as a truck but almost, and I find the advantages once you are at the track worth the slight degradation.

[stonebridge20]

We see 10 to 15% reduction in operating Temps on race rotors and drums that we Cryogenically treat. We see 2 to 3 times the service life also. If you're on the borderline of disaster with your tow rig brake system, you may want to give Cryogenically treating your rotors, drums, pads and shoes.

[Richard Hybels]

I started out towing with a 1/2 ton pickup. It was un fun. Then I added helper springs and heavy-duty shocks but it was still a real job driving the rig. Crosswinds upset it, the trailer would push the truck all over the place and I was constantly correcting via the steering. Not to mention braking at all. And the truck struggled with the tongue weight even though it was rated to pull it. I eventually switched to a 3/4 ton, extended cab pick up. It was night and day better. the trailer was a breeze to pull, it was stable and I could tow a good bit faster without worry. I also have limited experience with a dually and it was another step up in stability, though I did not feel I needed it. Right now I use a GMC 3/4 ton van which is not as good as a truck but almost, and I find the advantages once you are at the track worth the slight degradation.

My point was that you don't need to spend $25k to have a truck that will do the job. I was not suggesting that anybody tow a big load with a Ram 1500.

[DaveW]

We see 10 to 15% reduction in operating Temps on race rotors and drums that we Cryogenically treat. We see 2 to 3 times the service life also. If you're on the borderline of disaster with your tow rig brake system, you may want to give Cryogenically treating your rotors, drums, pads and shoes.

I'm still on my ORIGINAL 45-YO front brake rotors and rear drums at ~325K miles, mostly towing. And they look like they'll last forever. The rear wheel cylinders and front calipers are also original and have not been rebuilt. I'm only on my 2nd set of rear shoes (replaced the 1st set because of a rear axle lube leak), and maybe on my 4th set of front pads. The second-to-last of those sets was the 1st non-OE type set (NAPA - OE from GM/Chevy no longer available). It was NAPA's highest-spec'd version, but faded the 1st time down the Rt 58 hill (fade was never an issue with the OE pads). That's why I'm now using the PFC front pads (the highest-spec'd front pads I could find anywhere), and they seem to be working well.

[stonebridge20]

I'm still on my ORIGINAL 45-YO front brake rotors and rear drums at ~325K miles, mostly towing. And they look like they'll last forever. The rear wheel cylinders and front calipers are also original and have not been rebuilt. I'm only on my 2nd set of rear shoes (replaced the 1st set because of a rear axle lube leak), and maybe on my 4th set of front pads. The second-to-last of those sets was the 1st non-OE type set (NAPA - OE from GM/Chevy no longer available). It was NAPA's highest-spec'd version, but faded the 1st time down the Rt 58 hill (fade was never an issue with the OE pads). That's why I'm now using the PFC front pads (the highest-spec'd front pads I could find anywhere), and they seem to be working well.

THAT.........is amazing !

Probably why you're so fast Dave. You never use the brakes.

[DaveW]

...Probably why you're so fast Dave. You never use the brakes.

It's funny you should say that - I even downshift and, as much as I can, coast to stops in all my street vehicles, even the ones with automatic transmissions. Saves brakes and fuel. It's sort of a game - to see how close I can get to the stop w/o touching the brakes or gas.

Now, on the track, obviously, coasting to the corner is not an option...

[stonebridge20]

It's funny you should say that - I even downshift and, as much as I can, coast to stops in all my street vehicles, even the ones with automatic transmissions. Saves brakes and fuel. It's sort of a game - to see how close I can get to the stop w/o touching the brakes or gas.

Now, on the track, obviously, coasting to the corner is not an option...

Funny, I do the same thing but it's not for fun. It's because I'm cheap.

[Steve Demeter]

I am like Dave W. But not quite the life in pads and shoes. But my first van for 22 years never changed pads or shoes. They never wore out.

Second van had for thirteen years and did change shoes because a rear brake line got torn up when a tire let go and everything was rusted solid and decided that while it was apart to do it right. This van is a 1990 3/4 ton Chev with a 350. Just take care of the brakes and they will last forever.

One thing that I do is to change the brake fluid every year. I have done this in race cars as well and have never had a master or caliper need a rebuild (except a clutch master but they get a lot of wear due to the long travel)