Need racers' opinions for new sanction

[JR Pringle]

I will make this as brief as possible. We race in series for winged outlaw minisprints in TX, LA and Ar. High end race cars are $20K ready to race with the average car @ $10K. All 20 cars in the A main get paid with first place ranging from $500 to $2500 every Sat. night. There is no entry fee and only a one time $50 series admin fee. Why? Because spectators help pay for our racing in return for a Sat. night's worth of entertainment.
I propose to do the same with a grass roots formula open wheel series. The races that are sanctioned and ran by the SCCA are a joke. My road racing program has consumed @ $100K + in the past two years (new car, truck, trailer, tools and expenses) with very little pay back. The SCCA only promotes(that's a stretch) two to three spectator events a year in our region, and still no purse to the racers. In addition, the 20? minute qualifying and 18 minute race is not a fair amount of track time for the money spent by the competitors. The local FM dealer recently promoted a two hour race for the FMs. That was a blast and only cost $250 for entry with a set of tires going to the winner. More track time with longer races can only be accomplished with fewer groups to run and a professional sanctioning/promotional body in charge of the event. I am proposing to create a sanctioning body for the purpose of promoting formula car racing as a for profit business. The goal is to bring spectators to the track, have them enjoy themselves and provide the racers a purse through spectator ticket sales, driver entry fees and sponsor support. We are not talking about alot of money, but rather maybe enough to offset the cost of running our cars. And for those racers who have not had the opportunity to compete in front of spectators, it is an enjoyable experience to feel like a professional racer for a day.
Now, my question to those that have hung on through this dissertation. 29 years of being involved in amateur and professional events have given me lot's of ideas on how to get spectators to attend. What would it take to get the rank and file SCCA FV, FF, FC, FM and FA drivers to compete in another series events? Promise of purse money? A ladder system provided by the series promoters, e.i. paid ride in next higher class for class winners? A major recognizable name sponsor for the series? Local shop involvement? Running in a race that includes only their class of car? More influence over the rules package? A chance to be part of an exciting racing spectacle?

Any feed back would be appreciated,
Darryl Wills

[DENIS]

In a word; INSURANCE.

The biggest thing that everyone mentions that they want is insurance. I don't fully get that myself, but you asked.

My medical does not cover me for the Hill Climbs and even Pikes Peak asks for your insurance carrier to be included on your entry. Basically I'm on my own from what I can tell.

In todays world everyone wants to 'race safe' meaning that they want someone else to take responsibility for what they choose to do. I figure if you choose to race it's your problem.

To that end, I'd say the other issues are:

Large fields
Name locations
Prize money
Top events
Tow money
Low cost to race

I'll post more on MY opinions after others to the same.

[JR Pringle]

Todd,
Thanks for the response.
The AMA used to provide an option for insurance that we could buy on a per event basis at the time of sign up. You think that would be good enough?

I provide Humana HMO health insurance for me and my employees. They cover almost all activities except participation in professional events. They describe professional as being "a significant portion of my income" LOL, like that will ever happen......

Darryl

[Tonis Kasemets]

While I admire your desire to accomplish this, I think there is one part of your plan that is not going to pan out. Please don't take it as a slam, I'm simply offering you my thoughts on your idea.

You did not go into detail on how exactly you are going to fill the stands with spectators, other than you have a bunch of experience and some ideas. Since this is pivital to paying for this stuff, and the drivers, this is a critical item.

I think circle track racing has a wonderful advantage: You can sit in one spot with your beer and see the entire track. You obviously know this. You can watch the entire race unfold without having to wonder how car #23 managed to get in front of car #5 on that last time by. I'm not really a small-circle track fan, but I can appreciate this huge difference. I franky find road racing frustrating to watch other than on T.V. (I much prefer to watch CART at RA rather than make the fairly short drive there, yet I take my daughter to the local roundy-round track for giggles quite often...mostly for the athmosphere and food!)

My personal opinion is that the only way you will get people to come out in sufficient numbers is to have them in the stands already for something else. Maybe you can elaborate on some of your ideas on how to fill the stands? Thanks!

[JR Pringle]

Without going into great detail, as I am mostly brain storming at the moment. The reason I am proposing a small series and not an alternative to SCCA participation is that these events should be a festival where a race happen to occur. Give folks other reasons to attend other than watch a group of hardcores enjoying their chosen past time. Ideas such as Chili cookoffs, Battle of the Bands, Car shows, Boy Scouts day at the races, Charity functions, promote the drivers through public appearances, local car dealer buy ins to the event, radio station promotions with local personalities attending the event, etc.. These are not new ideas, and they do work. I have been involved in promotions of this sort and the results are amazing. The one caveat is that this is a full time activity and needs to be executed as a business. Do you think that the drivers would get their feelings hurt if the promoter was making a living off of these events and they were not? I experienced this in motorcycle racing and it really soured the series because of the negative vibes coming from the participants.
Thanks for the input, but I would really like to know what it would take to get competitors to buy a new set of tires and enter a non SCCA event.

[Todd Colwell]

Darryl:

I like the idea.

I believe a new kind of road course is in order.

We need a short 1.5 mile course with maybe 4 right turns and three left turns that can be seen from a grand stand. Build the track in a populated area, build a driver and fan base,local and hold races every Saturday like the circle track guys.

The main reason people do not come to see road racing is that the tracks are near no one, they're not regular events built around their lifestyle and their is to much time and work involved to go see the race.

[Key Motorsport]

Darryl, from my point of view as a racer, I'd be willing to travel a bit more and pay slightly higher entry fees to a) race in large competitive fields (20 cars or more), b) race on fun tracks, c) race in front of spectators, and d) earn some money to reduce costs.

Obvously the bigger problem is getting enough spectators to pay for it all. No question, it's about promotion. You'd need large markets, good spectator layouts, reasonable track rentals, and other draws besides the racing. Regarding the racing, we can put on a good show, but the current format can put people to sleep. Run just a few classes, as you suggested, and get them out on the track many times a day... one practice, two qualifying heats, two races per class. Adjust the time and groupings to fill up the day with short sessions, including the races. Maybe no more than 20 minutes for any of the above. For our kind of race cars (small, open wheel), you need to make it brief and intensive to keep spectators from nodding off. That may not be what racers like, but it's a better show.
Nick

[PRP MOTORSPORT]

Darryl I think you need to offer competition. If you could gaurantee that top competitors in each class would attend I think that would help your chances of getting more people committed. I would gladly spend the money to race with run-offs caliber competitors rather than the same people I race with at every other SCCA national in the southwest.
What type of racing are you talking about? Ovals or road course?
Just my thoughts
Darren Brown

[JR Pringle]

Frank,
You bring up an interesting idea. A small road course would be fun for fendered race cars and gokarts. Open wheel road race cars in really close quarters may be a bit much in terms of repair bills. I have consumed two top wings this year in my minisprint from wheel to wheel contact. Of course, none of those were my fault...

Nick,
I was considering using the local tracks in our area, Hallett, Baton Rouge, TWS and MSR. Do you consider any of these to be fun? FYI, there may be a new 1.5 mile road course in Houston soon. Just a rumor but it came from a credible source. Since we run in the same group, you know that we have never had the 25 and 35 minute races that we should. Maybe I should bring this to the SCCA's attention, but I do not understand why we run the same number of laps for classes that take 2 minutes plus per lap as those that take only 1 minute plus per lap. We have had races shorter than the SFR's sat on pit road during a red flag situation. Then that class got to finish their qualifying session, all of it. This happened at the last race at TWS. And YES I am still upset with the TMS Saturday situation. I really do not mean to bitch about the SCCA, but they seem to run their races under a different philosophy than I am accustomed to. I am trying to determine if promoting open wheel racing at the amateur level would be a profitable venture.

Again, Thanks for the input,
Darryl

[DKRock]

My 2c...
One or two classes on the track at a time. Avoid confusing the consumer. Use the most popular classes to give you the best opportunity to fill your fields. Check area SCCA entries since this is where you'll be operating.

You sound like you've got some good handles on promotional ideas. Excellent. Road races are BORING. Especially for the non-participant. Parking lot go-kart tracks, lots of food vendors (hopefully not track food), bands, etc. Make it an event, similar to county fair atmosphere. IMSA had a "pit crew challenge" thing where spectators got to do a 4 wheel change on a show car. People like this sort of thing.

Maybe think about limiting the classes to the point where you might run two 35-50 minute races for each class?

I like your ideas and wish you all success. Show us how to do it!

[Key Motorsport]

Hallett and TWS (the 2.9 layout) are great fun. Some of our airport circuits are fun, too, but lousy for spectating. You'd talk till you were blue trying to convince them to let you erect temporary stands. None of the above are in huge population areas. Don't hold your breath waiting for Tulsa and Oklahoma City residents to make the drive to Hallett (pity, it's a great spectator track) unless you spend plenty advertising. Ditto drawing spectators to TWS, including the Aggie students ten minutes away in College Station. When I began racing there in 1996, I couldn't find any locals who knew the track even existed. And they used to do some pretty big races there. Some racers don't care for Topeka, but I liked that track, too, even though I destroyed a car there on my one and only visit. But again, it's no DFW in terms of nearby population.

I think the breakeven point is north of 200 entrants for a two day SCCA event at TWS. If your proposed event has only 100 entrants spread over four or five classes, you need $400 - 500 entry fees just to cover costs, without any cash payouts, without paying any workers.

If you can get a few thousand spectators, it could work, depending on how much you had to spend. And if you want them back, the show better be pretty good. It would be easy to top the typical SCCA event in terms of putting on a show, but that's not what you'd be competing against.

The race at TMS showed me we can put some fans in the stands, even if a good number of those were giveaway tickets. As I've said, we "amateur" racers can put on as good a show as anyone if things are structured to keep the crowd interested. Keep the sessions fairly short, frequent, and intense. Oh yeah, and Springsteen in concert. Or lions and tigers and bears.

Regarding tracks, as long as there's room to race and some technical ability or guts required to go fast, it doesn't matter if the track's pretty simple. Phoenix is easy to learn, but fun. I would drive that far - as I do each January - for a good event.

Maybe it could work, Darryl. I've thought about doing it for years, but always seem to come up with other uses of my time and money. It's not something I'd relish doing alone, nor on a part time basis.

[harshda]

Derryl,

First, regarding your short races, contact your
Comp Committee representative, or a member of the
BOG for your region. The duration of the races is
set by the BOG at the end of the year as part of the
sup regs, and approved by Denver. I think Sup regs
for next year have to be submitted to Denver in
November, so move on it. Essentially, the BOG can
set the race lenght based on time, laps, or both.
Here in So Cal the number of laps is calculated
based on track lenght to get around 30 minutes of
race time. There is also a 30 minute time limit,
so you'll race up to the 30 minute mark, or the lap
limit.

Second, your original question. I think you're
proposing an interesting idea. From most people
I race with, I think we'd like to see insurance
and price money to offset the costs.

Gerry

[JR Pringle]

Thank you to all of thoses that posted their opinions and emailed me direct on this topic. I love a great party and can assure you that there will be a race next year for small bore open wheel formula cars. The series idea is going to take alot more research. maybe if my one race is a monumental success it could lead into something bigger.
No further posts on this topic are needed. I will solicate more opinions at a later date.

FYI, I have never disrespected a FF owner and I love driving my FM. For those folks that post negative fibes about other classes on this and other sites need to realize that the other race car drivers are the only people on this planet that share the same emotions as yourself. This unique sharing of like experiences make the racing community almost family like.
OK...off my soapbox..
Darryl

[ThinkFast]

Why don't you contact Steve Beeler as he has done something similar to this (at least as far as making it a series) with the East West Challenge. I'm sure his insights and experience would be of great help. It would be nice if a race or two were at a SoCal track (not that I'm being selfish or anything).

[keithf]

Garey:

Thanks for inviting me to comment on this thread. I do have some ideas on this topic.

What is lost in all of our problems with the SCCA national office and Enterprises is that we club racers have quite a bit in common with SCCA regions. We like to race, and they like to put on races. That simple fact, plus a few people in the right places friendly towards Formula Ford, are the cornerstones of the FF/CFF East vs West Challenge.

A big FF/CFF entry is a significant percentage of breakeven at a regional weekend, especially those at "club" circuits (e.g, Grattan and Blackhawk Farms) as opposed to "pro" venues (Road America and Mid-Ohio). Therefore, the EWC is a WIN-WIN for both the virtual EWC driver organization and our partner regions.

Vendors to the Formula Ford community also benefit when car counts are up. That's why twelve sponsors signed up to support the series last year. Get the cars out of the garages and onto the track and business goes up. Now the EWC is a WIN-WIN-WIN.

It would seem to me to be a whole lot easier to partner up with SCCA regions and replicate the EWC business model than to form an organization from scratch to organize races.

Steve Beeler
Lola T-540 HU44
home: (734)416-8865 [email]thebeelers@peoplepc.com[/email]
office: (313)390-1818 [email]sbeeler@ford.com[/email]

[Eduardo]

Frank. The track you suggested already exists, it's Gingerman. A spectator can see almost the whole track from the stands.

EastWest challenge was a wonderful idea and I hope it keeps growing. Some of the best club racing I saw last year at Blackhawk.

The insurance problem isn't about the drivers, it's for the spectators. You need track security increases. Check out the cost of renting a track, support, workers and see where you need to bring in a fairly large crowd to break even.

I'd like to see more promotion for the SCCA races and more spectator events. Many people agree with your ideas. A majority of drivers and members want spectator events. For some reason, it isn't happening, so that may be a hint that there are some major problems with running spectator events.

I have to say it again. EastWest Challenge. Some of the best club racing I saw last year.