2017 runoffs ims

[CScharnow]

There was another thread started by the only pinto to consistently show up to the pro series asking where he can race with other pintos next year. Even if I don't completely agree with the whole pinto argument, I believe that is telling.

My opinion is give the pintos an upgrade, let the Mazda's in, and let's pick a spec tire. There was all kinds of uproar over the spec tire in FF but now people just get on with it, and the fields are as healthy as they've been in a decade. Probably too soon to do all this for 2018 but I couldn't agree with John more, the status quo isn't working.

[BrianT1]

Here is a pretty encouraging comment from a FF driver in the Spec Tire Thread in FF.

I was a big fan of a Spec tire, but not a fan of the tire chosen. I ponied up for Prince's suspension pieces, because I didn't like the idea of really extended rod ends holding my front tire on, and I had my shocks re-valved, so it wasn't a cheap fix. I figured it would take a while to "pay back" that cost based on tire savings, but the tire really does last longer. I just turned my normal times at VIR on 20 heat cycle tires. I didn't approach my best R45 times, but my guess is that is a driver issue, not a tire issue. And it does seem to have helped bring out more racers [See Jim Morgan's comment] I'd say you will find it a positive move if [1] the tire is a money-saver for the mid-pack guys (The pointy-end fellas will spend the money anyway) and [2] It can be run with minimal suspension changes and still work for the mid-pack guys. I hope this helps, but it's just my take, FWIW.

[MotorCade]

I am with BBR on the concerns about cost. I think the SCCA should spend some energy in finding out what the current state of affairs really is, re: parity. Do some tear-downs at nationals. Do some dyno comparisons. Get to the truth. Hide the names if need be, I'm not interested in slinging barbs. But we need to know REALITY before we can change things. This is especially true if we're talking about bringing the MZR motor in. I think we're going to need more motors, but we need to be careful not to restart this all over again. On the other hand, bringing in another motor (or two... allow the MZR, allow the Fit w/a small turbo, whatever) as long as ALL of the existing motors are reassessed for parity. (I like how NASA does it... base it on a dyno curve. Pull off the track, go get dyno'd. As for ECU cheaters, you're banned for a year if caught.)

I'm in favor of a spec tire IF it's a bias ply, OR it's a choice between a limited number of tires (one radial/one bias, for example). BUT, and I feel strongly about this, having gauged the pulse of our own group - going to a radial is going to have the unintended consequence of parking/driving away more cars than you think. SVRA is actively trying to pull us pinto guys in. That fractures the class, because they aren't letting the zetecs in...

As BBR said - 5 to 1 ratio... want the pintos out? Be gracious hosts and make the concessions needed to bring them. Putting all the burden on the guys who you want to show up is like hosting a wedding in Tahiti and being upset when the guests can't afford an airline ticket.

Cheers!

[rsmart]

I called Buttonwillow (Pirelli DM radial supplier to Pacific F2000) about the cost of a set of tires as used in the P F2000 series. $1,008.00. Not sure if this is plus shipping, mounting and balancing but I believe it is. Maybe one of the west coast guys can verify this info.

[Lenny T.]

A lot of complaints about pinto not have enough hp to be competitive with zeteks . Well we / Steve Jenks ran DP08 restricted mazda at Indy with FRP and were down around 10mph to them. As Matt stated his top speed was 146, Steves 136. Top 6 cars qualified within .5 sec Not sure what others top speed was? But Matt and Steve were in top 6. All this whinging about top speed is BS. Dust your cars off and come out and play.

Lenny

[BeerBudgetRacing]

All this whinging about top speed is BS.

Actually not sure I've ever seen anyone complain about top speed. First you've got gearing choices. Second it is known that the Pinto spins faster than the Zetec - after all, the Pinto makes it's power at the top end.

And that's the problem. Not every track has long straights like Indy or Daytona.
The Zetec has more torque out of the corners, accelerates faster, and has longer power curve.
Given enough time Pintos catch up, but they need time to wind up and develop that top speed before they can catch up.

So, coming out of every corner, the zetec is faster. If every straight was long, the Pinto would have the advantage.
But that's not typical of the tracks we race.

Top speed is a BS measurement.

[DaveW]

Actually not sure I've ever seen anyone complain about top speed. First you've got gearing choices. Second it is known that the Pinto spins faster than the Zetec - after all, the Pinto makes it's power at the top end.

And that's the problem. Not every track has long straights like Indy or Daytona.
The Zetec has more torque out of the corners, accelerates faster, and has longer power curve.
Given enough time Pintos catch up, but they need time to wind up and develop that top speed before they can catch up.

So, coming out of every corner, the zetec is faster. If every straight was long, the Pinto would have the advantage.
But that's not typical of the tracks we race.

Top speed is a BS measurement.

On top of which, what aero setup was the fast-on-the-straight Pinto running? One can always dial out wing to get top speed to the detriment of braking, mid-corner grip and corner-exit speed. It's always a compromise.

[Cole Morgan]

Let's talk about the big event next year. Every FC guy from the past 20 years should come out, Pintos and Zetecs and Mazdas and whatevers! We can throw a terrific party!

The conversation needs to start soon about where we can go and what would be a good date. Of course we'll never get an unanimous decision, but if we are all a little flexible, I'm sure we can figure something out!

Thanks to those of you who sent me PMs. I really do appreciate your kind words and support.

See you next year!

Rob Allaer
FC #52

Anybody have a spare car lying around?

[Jtovo]

Oh crap. Now we have done it. We woke him.

Cole,
You wouldn't want to come drive a Pinto against these new modern Zetec cars. They just aren't competitive.

[rallaer]

Ha! Put Cole in a Pinto and watch all of us chase him around! Matter of fact, if he comes, we will have to add 75lb weight to Pintos!

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Anybody have a spare car lying around?

I've got a 93 that needs rebuilding and a motor. Right now it's race-ready parts

If someone want to drive it in Sonoma next year I'll get to work...g

[Jtovo]

$hit. I will put $1500 of sponsorship to that idea.

[MotorCade]

$hit. I will put $1500 of sponsorship to that idea.

I've got rental pintos. Can Cole fit a 97? I'd back this idea as well.

[Bob Wright]

Mmm....add a little fuel...I might have a MZR available....

in regard to the ‘FC party’- two events on the FRP calendar that might work- Mid Ohio at the end of June and PIRC the first weekend in August. We would be willing to make some consessions for older Pintos (bias tires?).

Lets keep the discussion going

[Cole Morgan]

I've got rental pintos. Can Cole fit a 97? I'd back this idea as well.

If I can fit in a DB-6, I can probably squeeze into anything. If someone wants to do this, I’m game.

[stonebridge20]

If I can fit in a DB-6, I can probably squeeze into anything. If someone wants to do this, I’m game.

I doubt it. We tried packing 6'3" 200lbs(max db6 load) into a 97 once. It didn't work.

[andyllc]

I doubt it. We tried packing 6'3" 200lbs(max db6 load) into a 97 once. It didn't work.

My fat butt can fit in a 97, Cole can too.

[stonebridge20]

My fat butt can fit in a 97, Cole can too.

The 200lbs isn't the problem, it's the 6'3" that's the problem.

[MotorCade]

Yeah, the 6'3 isn't going to fit. I'm 6'2, and I can fit in the car... but I can't get my hips any further down to get my head below the broomstick test.

I also have a 94 and a 96... I was planning on driving the 96 myself, and the 94 is competitive as a club car, but not strong enough to run with the newer stuff.

[CScharnow]

The real question is whether his head will still fit in the helmet after this love fest!

[Cole Morgan]

6’ 1” and 188 these days.

Chris, I need a new helmet anyways so I’ll just size up.

[MotorCade]

6’ 1” and 188 these days.

It'd be tight, but worth a shot... would depend on where you're tall - legs or torso.

[stonebridge20]

6’ 1” and 188 these days.

Chris, I need a new helmet anyways so I’ll just size up.

Any more than a 32" inseam and I don't think it can be done.

34" inseam. No seat, custom steering mount, pedals all the way forward and our hero drove it one session at LRP by shifting with his left hand reaching the shifter under his right leg.I pulled the plug on that deal.

[MotorCade]

Any more than a 32" inseam and I don't think it can be done.

34" inseam. No seat, custom steering mount, pedals all the way forward and our hero drove it one session at LRP by shifting with his left hand reaching the shifter under his right leg.I pulled the plug on that deal.

I'm trying to imagine how he got his hand under his leg to reach the shifter... my legs are jammed tight together under the wheel just to test fit. The 'hoop' to fit through under the wheel is so tight that I can't get my legs further down. Shifter is still easy to grab with my right hand, though. My head sticks up high, so no go. If it wasn't for the broomstick, I could probably manage a lap or two in it.

Still, point is - it's tight. Recommended pilot size is 5'10" and 180lbs or less. It's part of why I've been toying with the idea of selling this one. Then I'd go buy something easier for renters to fit.