Dipping toe into open wheel

[toolo4sno]

I am looking to get into an FM car. While I have only socked away $17k or so; I feel I should start the process and get an idea as to what I should be looking for. At first I intend on only participating in OTDs until I figure the car out, but the eventual goal is wheel to wheel racing in some sort of league.

Since it's a spec car I doubt there are many foundational differences between chassis, but I am not really sure and need some direction. Other things like dash electronics and accessories will differ and I'd like to know what's good bad or not important.

They make a tall man chassis, but do they make a fat man chassis. Can 220lb under 6' people squeeze into an FM?

How about things like loading the car into my trailer and other small stuff that people tend to overlook? Then there is the actual league competitions. Who do I contact to start that process?

What do I need to know?

[CGOffroad]

Have you tried diving a Formula Mazda yet? I would think that is the more logical thing to do prior to purchase. I went to Allen Berg's Formula car school in California prior to purchasing a car. He uses Formula Renault. To experience a Formula Mazda try contacting Bob Bondurant driving school in Phoenix, AZ. Another option may be Moses Smith in Cresson, TX. He may do some kind of driving experience. Plus, he is an FM parts dealer. If an FM is what you end up buying, you will need to know who Moses is.

The FM is a good car for accommodating many sizes of drivers. You shouldn't have any problem getting into one.

[toolo4sno]

Have you tried diving a Formula Mazda yet? I would think that is the more logical thing to do prior to purchase. I went to Allen Berg's Formula car school in California prior to purchasing a car. He uses Formula Renault. To experience a Formula Mazda try contacting Bob Bondurant driving school in Phoenix, AZ. Another option may be Moses Smith in Cresson, TX. He may do some kind of driving experience. Plus, he is an FM parts dealer. If an FM is what you end up buying, you will need to know who Moses is.

The FM is a good car for accommodating many sizes of drivers. You shouldn't have any problem getting into one.

No previous FM or any other open wheel experience. Only 4 or so years of track days in my two Audi S4s. FM for me is that happy ground where budget and speed meet. I have looked at Formula Renault 2L, Abarths, etc. FM just seems like the most common and logical.

[Nardi]

FM is one of the most if not the most accommodating formula cars for non jockey sized drivers. As previously mentioned, contact Moses even now, prior to purchase. He will probably answer questions you didn't even know to ask.

[Robert Finlayson]

Though just about everyone will tell you that their class is the best, I would suggest you look into FE. If you are looking for cars to race, FM doesn't have many cars around here. FE is growing around here and in the southeast with most races having 10-15 cars. There is also a series around here, Road America, Blackhawk farms, Grattan, Gingerman, Mid Ohio.

[Retroracer]

I planned to go to a school to try open wheel cars. Then I started a new job and lost the vacation time I was going to use for the school. I just took a leap and bought a Formula Ford.
The transition to open wheel was a non-event. Once you get busy in the car you forget it is open wheel. It's just a car, but the best car you have ever driven. You will consider even zoomy road cars as mere grocery getters.
You are in Detroit. Waterford Hills is a great place to start. You will get lots of advice from the folks racing there, particularly on the logistics of going racing. You should also talk to Keith Averill of Averill Racing Stuff. You will find him on the this site.

[Firesmith]

Just be aware that most OTD's do not allow open wheel cars.

[2BWise]

If you're in the Detroit are take a look at FC. There is a regional race series, The Great Lakes Challenge, that runs all the local tracks. I'd suggest starting with contacting Keith Averill at Racing Stuff. His shop is in Madison Heights and he supports many of the local formula and sports racers.

[toolo4sno]

Yep, I bought my helmet about 5 years ago now at Averill's Racing Stuff. I will hit him up for some more information as I get closer.

I normally run with 3 Balls for OTDs and technically they are ok with open wheel but with approval. I'll have to check the other groups that I have run with to see what their policies are.

I'll also take a closer look at FE and FC, although I seem to recall FC cars being quite expensive.

WHRRI is like my backyard; if my backyard was about 6 miles away. Maybe I should just check out a race weekend and see for myself.

Next question for the guys who actually race in these leagues. Who fixes your car; can these be DIY'd? Are there manuals? I envision open wheel cars being "easy" to work on due to everything being right there. Is that even remotely accurate?

[CGOffroad]

Next question for the guys who actually race in these leagues. Who fixes you car; can these be DIY'd? Are there manuals? I envision open wheel cars being "easy" to work on due to everything being right there. Is that even remotely accurate?

You are probably going to end up with a wide variety of answers to this question. Here is what I personally do.

Internal engine work or rebuilds: send to one of the reputable engine builders. They will build a reliable engine that is legal.
Gear box: Do my own gear changes and box cleaning. Any repairs beyond this, my gear box will be pulled and go to a reputable rebuilder for bluepinting.

Everything else I pretty much maintain myself with the help of being able to call a local race prep shop with dozens of questions!! Some things I can't do in my shop, like pressing in bearings or machine work. I take these jobs to the race prep shop, get the parts back and install onto the car.

[mstephenson51]

Yep, try Moses at Texas Autosports for test days. He does them, and shares TONS of info. Yes, I have seen 220# guys fit these cars easy. They are actually pretty roomy.

$$$ per fun/speed, I really don't think you can beat FM. Faster and cheaper than FE (although I grant both are very very close on cost and speed) If you are not doing scca, it gets even cheaper bc you don't need a sealed engine so you literally can do everything yourself in your garage.

Logistics- I do setup alone in my garage, load the trailer alone, run the car at the track alone (but FM guys are all family, we all help eachother when needed) Like others said, most common, you do all the work yourself except ring/pinion setup or shift fork setup. Keep in mind that you should budget an average of $300 in repair of worn out parts each race weekend. Its a racecar, stuff breaks.

Lots of cars out there, some with fancy dash some with autometer gauges. Just pick what you need. I have a Motec ADL, and its awesome and does a lot I don't need, some guys have AIM dash that is even better. They can go upwards of $4k for the dash and sensors and junk like that.

SCCA is the main group for the FM class, I think NASA still runs it too. Comments above are right, FM seems to be mainly guys down here in OK, TX, CA, etc. but the SCCA does run nationwide.

Hope this helps, Feel free to ask a lot of questions, we are all here to help. Im no expert, I just started too but I'll share what I know. Moses is a huge help too, just call him and ask.

At the risk of losing you to other classes of cars, have you checked out WRL? World Racing League. SUPER fun and very affordable. I see guys run that with $1k miatas and be competitive.

[Eric Little]

I am similar to Gray on this one (CGoffroad). Basic maintenance I do myself. If it is a simple matter of bolting a new part in place of the old part and cleaning things, I am good (that includes changing gear ratios as it is a simple process of out with the last ratio and in with the new followed by bolting it all back in place and adding oil). If it requires the following, I seek others:

1 - Things that require machining and knowledge of proper tollerances to have it operate at 100%

Engine building is the best example here. I understand why and how a motor works but do not have the money to invest in the equipement necessary to measure and machine everything just right. Also, there is the time involved. Not the time to do the job but the time to learn what works and what doesn't within the rules. The guys that do engines for many have the time invested to know what it takes. It is worth it to pay for their time.

2 - Things that require engineering knowledge of car balance

I can adjust shocks, change springs, alter the brake balance, etc. But at my present stage in racing, I am guessing at what and how much the car needs. I have an engineer that works with me to adjust balance and evaluate tire wear. I am learning from him but like #1 above, that knowledge takes time to accumulate. Better to pay someone that has it and learn from them rather than make the wrong adjustment and wonder what happened.

The other work I have done on my own is fiberglass repair and painting. It is dirty. It is labor intensive. It is not any fun in any way shape or form. But, I was able to learn it relatively easily and get reasonable results. It saves me a little bit on cost and gives the added benefit of spending days trying to get my fingers un-stuck from each other after fiberglass work.

Good luck with whatever you decide on. The journey can be fun as long as you treat it as such.

Eric Little

[toolo4sno]

Good information guys thanks. I will process it all, and any other individual accounts that differ or back up what has been said are welcome.

Here's my background.

'06 I purchased a 2002 Audi S4 that would be my triple duty car (semi DD, winter beast and summer track day monster starting in '12) until this happened in '13.



Then I bought a 2000 Audi S4 that would only be track day only monster with possible rally cross in it's future. Then this happened.



I am still fixing the first one, and have barely looked at the second one yet. That said, my goal since racing became my hobby has been to have a fender car for track days with rally cross potential along with an open wheel ride that can be raced wheel to wheel in local leagues. My motorsports budget comes from the lack of a auto loan. This means I need my '02 back in service; so technically long long story short I have time to think about this. If the '02 doesn't see the road then that $17k needs to buy me a car when my current transportation poops out (Toyota, could be a while). I hope the S4 engine will be slid in within a month, but given the 3+ years this project has been; I ain't holdin' my breath.

[MotorCade]

The guys have already given you most of the same things I would say. Tons of great info, and it pays to heed it.

I would like to add a couple things... FM is a bit underrepresented here in our region. You're not likely to have more than a handful of other cars to play with. A number of us (myself included) play in FC partly because of this.

There's some downside to FC for a novice. They are very fast, very cheap, but require lots of tinkering to tune just right. You'll need to learn to change gears between races, and learn a little about setup. It is not a 'spec' car, by any stretch of the imagination. On the other hand, I believe those are also some of its positives. If you can learn to setup and drive quickly in an FC, you will be a contender in any car built.

Comparing the driving of FM to FC... I haven't driven an FM, but I can tell you that the FMs get in our way in the corners and then blast by us on long straights. The FM drivers have sometimes told me it drives 'like a truck.' The FC requires precision and speed in the corners to be fast. There are a number of chassis out there that will fit larger guys. I have a 94, a 96, and a 97, all Van Diemens. The 97 will not fit me. I'm 6'2 and 220, most of my height in my legs. The 94 and 96 are so big inside that I can scrunch down and not be able to see out.

And for a shameless plug: I've recently turned my racing into a business. If you'd like to try out an FC, I'd be happy to put you in my 94 at an OTD to experience it. www.wrenchaholics.com Besides that, I'd be happy to just talk your ear off and answer any questions as a relative newcomer to formula cars myself (16 years in production cars first), about things that have struck me as interesting, odd, and painful about the transition. Hopefully you can avoid some of the pitfalls.

If you're able to make it to Waterford this weekend, I will be there with a client and the 94. We could always stuff you in it between sessions to see how you fit.

Cheers,

Cade

[toolo4sno]

Good points on the FM being thinner out here in the Great Lakes Region. I just see so many ads for FMs compared to the others; I didn't consider region to present an issue. If racing is my eventual goal then I should look first at those racing around me. How is the sport at this level in general; still getting decent grids and interest in general?

I might end up showing up at WHRRI I'll have to confirm what's going on this weekend.

[mstephenson51]

Yep. Best course of action is to go to some races. Don't miss the June sprints at Road America! That will be a big one, and let you see what the larger groups of FM's look like.

Again, Im a bit of a noob to FM myself, but comparing to the other forms of racing that I have driven and wrenched on (spanning from crappy rental karts to pro shifter karts to wrenching on Indycars) I can say that the FM is easily the LEAST amount of tuning and setup required out of anything I have ever worked with.

But yeah, if you are on a budget like me look at not only the initial costs, but also look at a year of maintenance costs. Considering that, IMO FM cars are about the cheapest things you can race with slicks. WRL is probably the cheapest thing with street legal tires.

Good points on the FM being thinner out here in the Great Lakes Region. I just see so many ads for FMs compared to the others; I didn't consider region to present an issue. If racing is my eventual goal then I should look first at those racing around me. How is the sport at this level in general; still getting decent grids and interest in general?

I might end up showing up at WHRRI I'll have to confirm what's going on this weekend.

[MotorCade]

Yup, car counts matter. When I was looking to switch over to open wheel, FM was my first choice... relatively cheap, lots of cars to choose from, and very little setup to do. But no one was racing them here.

We've got about 15 regulars showing up for GLC series events, though. Having some people to lean on for help and advice made the decision for me. I don't regret it at all... I'm now firmly convinced that FC is the best bang for the buck in all of motorsport. If only we could get the SCCA to breathe some life back into the class.

On the other hand, if I still lived in SoCal, FM would have been my choice, for the same reason. Good grids there.

Hopefully you'll be able to make it out this weekend to chat!

Cheers

[toolo4sno]

Logistics- I do setup alone in my garage, load the trailer alone, run the car at the track alone (but FM guys are all family, we all help eachother when needed) Like others said, most common, you do all the work yourself except ring/pinion setup or shift fork setup. Keep in mind that you should budget an average of $300 in repair of worn out parts each race weekend. Its a racecar, stuff breaks.

This part is key for me. Which cars car be worked on, turned on, loaded into trailer, etc solo? It sounds like FM might be taken on alone; how about the others?

[MotorCade]

That's a bit trickier to answer. What is easy for one might be difficult for another.

I think that most Formula cars will be rather similar in time and knowledge required, (of the club level cars, not talking Indy or F1 here)but the idiosyncrasies of each chassis requires some learning.

For example, FC requires learning to change gears. F500 requires learning to setup a CVT. FM is probably very similar to FC for maintenance required, but FC will need a touch more setup time spent to stay on the front of the grid.

[Robert Finlayson]

[I might end up showing up at WHRRI I'll have to confirm what's going on this weekend.[/QUOTE]

Not sure that Waterford Hills will tell you much. Not an SCCA track, not much open wheel there at all. First Major of the year in the central division is here this weekend at Blackhawk Farms. 13 FE are registered, I believe at least 1 more is coming, 2 FC registered, 0 FM registered.