Source for Hewland MK9 thrust washers

[Bill Manofsky]

Help!...Anyone have a source for thrust washers for a Hewland Mk9. I need a pinion shaft thrust washer that goes in between 4th gear and the rear carrier bearing. It is part number 57 in the diagram below. Pegasus and Taylor want too much for this. Bat no longer supplies it.

Bill

[ncrx]

i got one from Scott at taylor race a month ago or so.

no idea if it was competitive in terms of pricing but shipped quickly and Scott was great to chat with.

Cheers

Nick

[Bill Manofsky]

i got one from Scott at taylor race a month ago or so.

no idea if it was competitive in terms of pricing but shipped quickly and Scott was great to chat with.

Cheers

Nick

Thanks, Taylor wants $75 ea. That is a little steep.

[Roland V. Johnson]

Nothing is cheep in racing today. For a precisely machined and heat treated part that doesn't sound that bad.

[Bill Manofsky]

Nothing is cheep in racing today. For a precisely machined and heat treated part that doesn't sound that bad.

I am an aerospace engineer. I have sourced parts like this for years. I am hoping this is a standard thrust washer, maybe for a jet engine or aircraft gear box that I can source for a lot less with the proper heat treat and metallurgy etc. I am sure that Hewland did not have custom thrust washers made and bought them from a reliable source or sources.

Thanks,

Bill

[kea]

I am sure that Hewland did not have custom thrust washers made and bought them from a reliable source or sources.

I'll bet they had them custom made.

[Phil Creighton]

They had them made

[Bill Manofsky]

They had them made

Thanks for that info. I just took a quick look in Grainger and McMaster Carr and found nothing.

I will look in some mil handbooks to see if there are any equivalents.

Bill

[marty7]

The correct part is only part of the story. You need to check the end float of top gear once fitted. You need 0.008 to 0.010" . Cost of the thrust washer is peanuts compared to getting this right. Get it wrong and you will destroy a top gear.

Some do fit a bronze thrust washer. That works. But the time to must be marginal cost saving compared to buying the right part. FYI I have experienced a lot expensive damage when things go wrong in a hewland.

[Bill Manofsky]

The correct part is only part of the story. You need to check the end float of top gear once fitted. You need 0.008 to 0.010" . Cost of the thrust washer is peanuts compared to getting this right. Get it wrong and you will destroy a top gear.

Some do fit a bronze thrust washer. That works. But the time to must be marginal cost saving compared to buying the right part. FYI I have experienced a lot expensive damage when things go wrong in a hewland.

Thanks...

I just spoke with Mick at Taylor Racing who builds all their tranny's. He told me the same thing. He suggests .005 to .010 play in the 4th gear.

Bill

[Pi_guy]

They are custom made.
And you need to machine for proper fit.

[Bill Manofsky]

I just had several good conversations with Mick Mannion at Taylor Race Engineering. He is their go-to guy for everything Hewland. He builds their gear boxes. Great guy. Very knowledgeable.

So I will be buying shims and thrust washers from them.

Bill

[Lotus7]

so let's say you want to make one ...

start with suitable diameter carbon steel bar stock; hmm ...

cut reasonably close tolerance OD and ID

then machine to very close thickness tolerance

then check for ridiculously close tolerances on face parallelism

finish all edges

then sent it off for carburizing

then check tolerances were maintained after coming back from carb...

I'd say $75 is a steal :-)

(no I dont work for Scotty LOL)

[Bill Manofsky]

so let's say you want to make one ...

start with suitable diameter carbon steel bar stock; hmm ...

cut reasonably close tolerance OD and ID

then machine to very close thickness tolerance

then check for ridiculously close tolerances on face parallelism

finish all edges

then sent it off for carburizing

then check tolerances were maintained after coming back from carb...

I'd say $75 is a steal :-)

(no I dont work for Scotty LOL)

Yep, why make one when you can buy one...especially when it may be off the shelf from an aviation supply house for $10.

[Lotus7]

Yep, why make one when you can buy one...especially when it may be off the shelf from an aviation supply house for $10.

ok, we are all (most anyway) willing to be educated, please let us know if and where you find one
cheers

[Bill Manofsky]

ok, we are all (most anyway) willing to be educated, please let us know if and where you find one
cheers

I spent most of the day looking.

However, others more knowledgeable have indicated that Hewland had these specialty made instead of using something off the shelf.

However, I am still going to look for an equivalent at aircraft supply houses.

I will let everyone know what I find out.

Bill

[Firesmith]

Mick at TRE is THE man for Hewland in the States! Take his help and advice as gospel and you will be way ahead in the long run as others have stated.

[Pi_guy]

I spent most of the day looking.

So did I:
I have a Mk4 on the bench at the moment and went to do measurements prior to setting shift forks. So we lay out the parts and we can not not find part number 57 the thrust washer. So the hunt begins check bins workspace even get to checking stock to find I have only ones that need final machining. Much grumbling goes on in the search for the thrust washer. Do one more search and hiding next to the bearing in the bearing carrier was the thrust washer, we had looked several times.
Out with the magnet and parted the thrust washer from the bearing.

[SCOTTY81]

Hey Mike and William

Thanks for the good words about Mick.. I am very lucky to have him here,
I will pass this on to Mick.. I have been trying to get him to sign up on Apex.

[Bill Manofsky]

So did I:
I have a Mk4 on the bench at the moment and went to do measurements prior to setting shift forks. So we lay out the parts and we can not not find part number 57 the thrust washer. So the hunt begins check bins workspace even get to checking stock to find I have only ones that need final machining. Much grumbling goes on in the search for the thrust washer. Do one more search and hiding next to the bearing in the bearing carrier was the thrust washer, we had looked several times.
Out with the magnet and parted the thrust washer from the bearing.

I found my thrust washer hiding the exact same place....it looked like it was part of the bearing.

[SCOTTY81]

The oil will usually cause it to adhere into the thrust pocket on the bearing carrier .

[Bill Manofsky]

The oil will usually cause it to adhere into the thrust pocket on the bearing carrier .

Thanks for the observation.

I then assume with enough heat over time the oil carmelizes and acts like an adhesive. With the surface area being about a square inch it can stick fairly well.

Bill

[Pi_guy]

The oil will usually cause it to adhere into the thrust pocket on the bearing carrier .

I personally think the washer has built in technology to hide or cloak its self.
But a few months back we had over 150 years of formula car experience in a room looking for a thrust washer. Damn thing was hiding in the same place.

[SCOTTY81]

two machined surfaces , It always helps during a gear change to put a dab of grease on the thrust washer . this will keep it from falling out when you slide the bearing carrier back into the box.

[Bill Manofsky]

two machined surfaces , It always helps during a gear change to put a dab of grease on the thrust washer . this will keep it from falling out when you slide the bearing carrier back into the box.

I have never driven this gearbox before so I do not know if there is a shift problem or any gear slipping out when under load.

However, I went to rebuild it and check all the clearances. When I took the gearset out, there was no A40 shim at the front.

The rear layshaft bearing A35 was loose so I was able to remove it and get a feeler gauge up and measure between the thrust washer and 4th gear.

Mick said I should have .005 to .010 clearance between 4th and the thrust washer. When I measured it showed I needed to add an .020 shim.

When I put the box back together with this shim I am able to turn the CV joint flanges forward int eh same direction by hand but 2nd gear seems a little tight. I also used Locktight to hold in the Layshaft bearing as Mick recommended. This works great..

Will 2nd loosen up when I put in gear oil?