Fire bottle replacement

[troyt]

I've spent a month contacting fire system manufacturers and searching the net looking for a mechanically operated, non-Halon fire bottle that is similarly sized to the OE Spa bottle our early VDs came with. The Spa bottle is 9" with handle, and fits nicely between the 10" spaced frame rails under your knees. The smallest I can now find is the Lifeline 2.25L bottle at 11.8", or the Lifeline 360 bottle at 10.8", but that requires a whole new system as the bottles are not compatible. There are electrical systems in the 8.5"-11.5" range, but I'd prefer mechanical, and the small ones are $1000+.

So I've now been looking to see if anyone would empty my Halon bottle and fill it with something SCCA approved, but no luck there either. Ideas???

[H.L.Tallman]

I've spent a month contacting fire system manufacturers and searching the net looking for a mechanically operated, non-Halon fire bottle that is similarly sized to the OE Spa bottle our early VDs came with. The Spa bottle is 9" with handle, and fits nicely between the 10" spaced frame rails under your knees. The smallest I can now find is the Lifeline 2.25L bottle at 11.8", or the Lifeline 360 bottle at 10.8", but that requires a whole new system as the bottles are not compatible. There are electrical systems in the 8.5"-11.5" range, but I'd prefer mechanical, and the small ones are $1000+.

So I've now been looking to see if anyone would empty my Halon bottle and fill it with something SCCA approved, but no luck there either. Ideas???

Forget it. just buy a new electrical system. I had the same problem in my Mygale. Had no luck with a manual one. Hardest part was mounting the activation button where I wouldn't hit it during the race.
Hilton Tallman

[kea]

non-Halon fire bottle

Why ?

[Wren]

I'm pretty sure that if your car has a log book issued before 2009(I think), you can continue to use Halon in your car.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

What is your motivation for wanting a new fire suppressant?

I would also be surprised if any tech inspectors would take a hard line on this.


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[troyt]

My RF93 was purchased without logbooks (stolen from PO), and the car had no SCCA rollbar stamp from its previous career, therefore SCCA mandates that a "new logbook" has to be issued, not "re-issued", so the no-Halon allowed clause (since 2010 or so) except for grandfathered cars would not apply, ARGHH!!! Went round and round with Chief of Tech (after going through two Inspectors), to no avail, even though this car had been raced in their Region by the PO. He gave me a "one race exemption" to meet the rule since it was the last race of the '16 season. For the record, the no-Halon reasoning for an open-cockpit car is absolute BS. We still use Halon in the frickin airline cockpits I fly in.

I've seen a couple electric systems get fired off accidentally, and I also don't want to worry about battery packs, etc. I've spoke to a couple more manufacturers, and no-one will refill an old Halon bottle with new (non-Halon) extinguishments.

So now we are stuck with very oversized mechanical bottles, or slightly oversized electric bottles. In other words, never loose your Halon grandfather status! SCCA is talking about removing that exemption in the near future too, so you all better get involved now if you want the status quo...

[kea]

SCCA is talking about removing that exemption in the near future too, so you all better get involved now if you want the status quo...

SCCA has been talking about single layer uniforms for decades too !
Have you taken a look at all the SPA units

[Wren]

That's really unfortunate. I would be surprised if the Halon risk is much above zero in an open car as well.

Consider finding another tech inspector who will issue you a log book.

If you cannot continue with Halon, you are going to have to put in a new system. There is no way that you are going to get your current system charged with another fire suppressant. You will be able to recoup some of your loss by selling your current Halon system here.

[H.L.Tallman]

Why ?

Your bottle has a lift limit on it. Anyone who will refill halon won't refill your old bottle because it has expired. There are no new bottles this size for halon so you are looking to match up what ever is available on the market. I went through this for months. Wound up with a new electric system.
HT

[rickb99]

That's really unfortunate. I would be surprised if the Halon risk is much above zero in an open car as well. .....

Halon is a major source of bromine in the stratosphere which kills Ozone. Ozone in the earth's stratosphere protects the earth from the penetration of harmful ultraviolet (primarily UV-B) solar radiation by absorbing most of this harmful UV-B, allowing only a small amount to reach the earth's surface.

HALON was done away with because of its effects on the ozone layer (I'm not a big echo nut but, this one issue I agree with completely). You have to remember this was a blanket elimination and racers got caught up in it. HALON was being used in all company and corporate computer rooms and many retail businesses because it can knock a fire down and not damage machines or inventory. Although I would like to see it waivered in for race cars I also agree it's bad s _ _ _.

[Wren]

Ozone depletion is why manufacturers stopped making Halon. The NASCAR ban and SFI moving away from its use was due to cardiac risk from exposure.


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[Rick Kirchner]

Take your bottle to safe craft (he's bay area) and get it re-filled with Halon.

Call Wayne or Jerry at VARA, explain the situation, and drag your car to the UofV, and get a VARA logbook issued.

Race SCCA on the VARA logbook.

[DanW]

Take your bottle to safe craft (he's bay area) and get it re-filled with Halon.

Call Wayne or Jerry at VARA, explain the situation, and drag your car to the UofV, and get a VARA logbook issued.

Race SCCA on the VARA logbook.

Troy,

How about contacting Safecraft and see if they will replace the Halon fill in your bottle with FE36 or Novec 1230. Either product will likely require new nozzles. I am almost certain they won't be able to ship the old SPA bottle if it is not DOT certified. The guy at Safecraft really knows his stuff. Much of his business is with the military and commercial aviation.

Regards,
Dan
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[S_Morton]

The bottle on my car would read low on cold days and I did not want to get to a track and be sent home because the bottle would not pass tech. Another issue is if you accidently fire the bottle at the track you are screwed. I replaced mine with the Lifeline Zero 360 with Novec 1230 and it was able to use the bracket that was on the car to mount the bottle. It is not an electric system and our supplier is considering getting set up to refill these.

[Brian C in Az]

Call Safecraft. I needed a new system for my DB-1. They make small bottles with FE-36 that will fit. When I called them, the bottle that they recommended and made for me was not listed on their website; according to their website, they didn't have a bottle that would fit. But they do make sizes not listed.

[troyt]

Thanks guys, Safecraft is just about the only company left I haven't spoken to, I'll call them next.

If I had known about the current SCCA Halon reg before I sought a new logbook, I would have gone about this differently, hopefully others can learn from my mistake. I had several conversations with PO and SCCA trying to find any record of previous logbook numbers, but to no avail. Should have been easy as I have records of it racing in SCCA, but SCCA could not match previous names and car numbers to a logbook number. The car had a chassis tag but no rollbar tech stamp, so that complicated the issue.

I had an inspection and new logbook issuance lined up in advance, no big deal, all going well with the Scrutineer, rollbar thickness measured, new numbers stamped onto the bar... until the Chief came over with the Halon issue. Scrutineer was happy to just see the bottle pressure gauge thru an inspection hole, but Chief had me remove seat and bottle cover to specifically check on extinguisher type - game over, and too late for other options...

[Rick Kirchner]

I know I'll take flak for this, but that was something he could have easily overlooked. All this BS the SCCA goes through - no halon, 2 yr belts - all this crap and the minions that support it, is why I struggle with racing with this club.

It's like they are trying to find ways to keep cars off the track.

[Jerry B.]

Troy:

If it will help in your fiasco, I have a new 5# Halon 1211 Fire Bottle with a SFI tag and firing head ...It is a push knob; push to operate. Let me know and I can bring it along with the Pinto book and I'll be like 1/2 price.... just send me a PM.

Jerry B.

Call Wayne or Jerry at VARA, explain the situation, and drag your car to the UofV, and get a VARA logbook issued.

Race SCCA on the VARA logbook.

I would never do something like that......or would I....