Help a newbie out please!

[otownfit]

I am right on the edge of purchasing my first open wheel car. I have had a few prior track days with my personal street car, but did my first open wheel experience a few weeks ago and became very addicted. I will be attending Lucas Oil Formula School in late July as well. I run a couple Nissan dealerships in Orlando, Florida, and my techs want to get behind a project. At first we were thinking of converting a Nissan engine, but other people have told me that will be very tough. Now, I am looking at a Formula Renault, since Renault/Nissan. I could brand my dealership on the car and trailer. I am not wanting to be a professional driver, more for hobby. An occasional race would be fun, a long side several track days a year. Sebring, Daytona, PBIR, are all within 2 hours of me. The question I have is that I cannot find where anyone can race the Renault, as they do not mention on the SCCA website. I am also seeing where open wheel cars are not allowed at track days. If I buy this, where can I run it at? Also, if anyone has any input on the Nissan engine conversion, please let me know. I have 2.0L and 1.6L engines at my disposal. I appreciate any input you can give!

[Kazis31]

No need to reinvent the wheel.
You can buy mint Formula Renault 2.0 in Europe for 30k including tax and shipping.
for more money Formula Renault 3.5 had Nissan V6 ,but pricey to keep up or buy.
Decent 3,5 is 65k to 90 k.
And very fast ,not a beginners car.
I would start with something less expensive .
you can put your dealership logos on any formula car for advertising ,most costumers won't look under engine cover to look for Nissan engine.
Formula Renault or FR2.0 as short for them are very reliable and fast cars,but very few in U.S.
I have buddy ,he's on apex who owns one,.
He runs with SVRA and VARA in group 9 i think.

Feel free to pm for ore info.

i have F3 car as track and possibly vintage racer.
look up my Dallara F301 restoration thread.

[Kazis31]

i always recommend racecarsdirect.com for price and car availability for Euro car market .
excellent source and reference on what is what.

[BURKY]

Is the car you're looking at a 1.6 or 2.0?

[Kazis31]

F3000 Lola used Nissan engines.
Also very fast car.
There is one for sale foe 44k euros in Belgium.
NOT a beginners toy as well.
would feel like F1 to one.

[Spengo]

Formula Renault is not raced in the US. If you had one you could drive it in the Formula Special class though.

[dsmithwc04]

Holy crap, look at this deal!

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...-tatuus-fr2000

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I am not wanting to be a professional driver, more for hobby. An occasional race would be fun, a long side several track days a year. Sebring, Daytona, PBIR, are all within 2 hours of me. The question I have is that I cannot find where anyone can race the Renault, as they do not mention on the SCCA website. I am also seeing where open wheel cars are not allowed at track days. If I buy this, where can I run it at?

Well, at least you recognize the problem up front....

As for 'track days' typically open wheel can run on 'test and tune' days at tracks. Some are run by the track, some by the organization having races the following weekend....

Buying a "compliant" car gives you the most options. Most important if you want to race.
If you buy a rare or vintage car, you might be able to race with SVRA or Vara but you'll be running with dissimilar cars.

If BURKYs link is correct it's a lot of car for the money, but is it money correctly spent.

So, you really need to figure out what you want to do and where you want to take this - first.

[Kazis31]

and pound is down.
there is one in need of completion for 7500

[marshall9]

Holy crap, look at this deal!

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...-tatuus-fr2000

That is sweet

[marshall9]

Formula car prep and set up will be a challenge for the average dealership tech. I would advise to consult a professional shop experienced in these areas and have them do it with your tech(s) apprenticing initially. It will be some expense initially, but will pay dividends and make the car more driveable as well.

[Matt Clark]

sounds like you are after a pretty fast car for only a few track days & a basic school/experience. you may want to look into something a bit more beginner-friendly. even a Formula F can catch a newbie off guard.

[BURKY]

If BURKYs link is correct it's a lot of car for the money, but is it money correctly spent.

Apparently it sold. http://www.racingjunk.com/Formula/18...-Race-Car.html

[dsmithwc04]

You could buy a Formula Enterprise. Cool, fast and easy to work on. Enterprises and Primus Racing are currently working on get parts cost down as well. If you wanted to race there is a series in the mid west as well as south east.

[otownfit]

Thank you for all the input. The car I drove was a Renault 1600. I fit pretty good in the car, and felt somewhat comfortable. My personal car is an Aston Martin DB9 so I am use to power, I know this is an all new beast however. I am 6'1 220, all shoulders, so some of the ones I think would not fit me. I found a 2008 2.0 with a few spare parts not much for $23k in the UK. I just want to make sure I have a spot to run it. I do not have an ego and have been around cars my whole life. I am sure not gonna get out there with you guys for a long time. I am going to school to get my license and want plenty of time behid the wheel before I race it. I have been a Nissan dealer for 20 yrs and will have the car on display in the showroom during events. Thats a food idea having my techs apprentice for a bit. They are all excited. Every shop techs dream to work a pit crew!

[farrout]

A sports Racer (Radical, STOHR, AMAC, etc) can usually run with the HPDE and track day events unlike an open wheel car. NASA will also take the Sports Racers and not the open wheelers.

Having had both a FF and the AMAC, the AMAC is definitely easier to work on and more reliable.

In a shameless plug, my AMAC is for sale (see the SR Forum for sale)

[marshall9]

Yeah, and Wayne Taylor's shop in Orlando may know a little about SRs.

[Shanerc]

There is an outfit called Performance Driving Group doing alot of track days at Daytona, Homestead, and Palm Beach. THEY DO ALLOW OPEN WHEEL CARS. I have never participated in one of theier events but I know a few people that have, and all had positive things to say.

[otownfit]

There is an outfit called Performance Driving Group doing alot of track days at Daytona, Homestead, and Palm Beach. THEY DO ALLOW OPEN WHEEL CARS. I have never participated in one of theier events but I know a few people that have, and all had positive things to say.

oh, I have run with them before at Sebring. That's good info to know! thank you.

[BURKY]

I sent you an email.

[EYERACE]

I'm in Orlando too.........maybe there's a way we can get together............one way is at the SCCA local meeting 2nd Tuesday every month at Logan's Roadhouse at the corner of SandLake Rd. and John Young. You can discuss the car [or what the heck, bring it so they could look at it] with an SCCA Tech Inspector who regularly comes to Logan's

As long as you've got an SCCA Log Book for the car [which isn't hard to get if the car doesn't already have one] I'll bet you could run the Renault as an FS car in our wings and things grid at SCCA events [Sebring/Daytona/etc.]....also you could run it test days .....the schedule has one of those for Daytona Aug. 5th.

[otownfit]

No need to reinvent the wheel.
You can buy mint Formula Renault 2.0 in Europe for 30k including tax and shipping.
for more money Formula Renault 3.5 had Nissan V6 ,but pricey to keep up or buy.
Decent 3,5 is 65k to 90 k.
And very fast ,not a beginners car.
I would start with something less expensive .
you can put your dealership logos on any formula car for advertising ,most costumers won't look under engine cover to look for Nissan engine.
Formula Renault or FR2.0 as short for them are very reliable and fast cars,but very few in U.S.
I have buddy ,he's on apex who owns one,.
He runs with SVRA and VARA in group 9 i think.

Feel free to pm for ore info.

i have F3 car as track and possibly vintage racer.
look up my Dallara F301 restoration thread.

Impressive! I can appreciate the work you have put into it. Thank you for all the input.

[Steve Demeter]

Be aware that even a FF will make the DB9 seem slow and sluggish just because of simple physics.

And it will most definitely lap just about any track faster.

And there are lots of places to race them.

Don't worry about being slow traffic. The powers that be will make sure in general that you are safe enough before turning you loose in a race.

And a good dealer tech, IMHO, can handle basic maintenance on a FF. But as was stated above have a pro shop go over it and put a proper set up on it at the very least.

If you are serious I would suggest a driving coach such as Cole Morgan who infrequently is on this site and located in Florida last I knew. That would make the learning curve a whole lot faster.

[otownfit]

A sports Racer (Radical, STOHR, AMAC, etc) can usually run with the HPDE and track day events unlike an open wheel car. NASA will also take the Sports Racers and not the open wheelers.

Having had both a FF and the AMAC, the AMAC is definitely easier to work on and more reliable.

In a shameless plug, my AMAC is for sale (see the SR Forum for sale)

Never pass up an opportunity for a good plug. Hope you sell it soon!

[otownfit]

Be aware that even a FF will make the DB9 seem slow and sluggish just because of simple physics.

And it will most definitely lap just about any track faster.

And there are lots of places to race them.

Don't worry about being slow traffic. The powers that be will make sure in general that you are safe enough before turning you loose in a race.

And a good dealer tech, IMHO, can handle basic maintenance on a FF. But as was stated above have a pro shop go over it and put a proper set up on it at the very least.

If you are serious I would suggest a driving coach such as Cole Morgan who infrequently is on this site and located in Florida last I knew. That would make the learning curve a whole lot faster.

Great info, I will look him up

[otownfit]

I'm in Orlando too.........maybe there's a way we can get together............one way is at the SCCA local meeting 2nd Tuesday every month at Logan's Roadhouse at the corner of SandLake Rd. and John Young. You can discuss the car [or what the heck, bring it so they could look at it] with an SCCA Tech Inspector who regularly comes to Logan's

As long as you've got an SCCA Log Book for the car [which isn't hard to get if the car doesn't already have one] I'll bet you could run the Renault as an FS car in our wings and things grid at SCCA events [Sebring/Daytona/etc.]....also you could run it test days .....the schedule has one of those for Daytona Aug. 5th.

The car is in the UK. It was owned/raced by Hillspeed. I have not purchased it yet. I was just making sure I had a place to drive it a few times a year. Would be a waste bringing it here with no where to run. My business partner races spec Nissan 240's with SCCA, so I am sure he goes to that meet. I will tag a long with him next time. We own/run Reed Nissan.

[Kazis31]

I had a Z06 Corvette 50 anniversary edition with all bell and whistles.
then bought my first formula car old 92 FF1600 Ray in poor condition.
Made Z06 look like slow ,fat cow.
Aston is a heavy car even with HP it puts out ,so don't even try to compare with open wheeler.
Driving Lotus Elise in track version would be kind of close.
When you get in proper winged formula car and dial in set up right ,and get within few seconds from fast guys on
lap times you will understand what everybody on this forum is going on about..

Welcome to disease and good luck with car choice.


P.S.
Needless to say i dumped corvette for formula car.
However C8 Zora with mid engine sounds just like the ticket back to Vette.

[swiftdrivr]

Driving a high powered car at 6/10ths on the street is not the same as driving anything at 9-10/10ths on the track. Be careful. Get what you are comfortable in, that has an SCCA class to run in so you can use it. You are likely to want to play more as you get more comfortable, and the addiction is hard to shake. Try to make sure it's a class where there is competition [that equals help and advice in SCCA club racing, BTW]. The open-wheels and flashy paint-job will work just fine in your dealership, and nobody will ever ask if it's a Nissan. Paint your dealership name on it, and take the "advertizing" tax write-off. Nobody expects you to be selling formula cars, just attracting attention to your dealership.

[Neil_Roberts]

Absolutely the best place to start with a car that you have not driven before is an autocross practice day. You need to master all of the skills required in autocross before attempting any race track driving. There are additional skills needed on the track, so you need to have a solid skill set and a complete understanding of your car first.

I am amazed that so few road racers ever show up at an autox. That is a huge missed opportunity, if for no other reason than learning how to get the most out of cold tires so that you can pass everyone else on the first lap.

[Ray Dona]

Look at what make/model of car is competitive in the series you plan to run now - and in the future. Buy something that has a RESALE value! Plenty of choices here in the US without spending $$ on transport from Europe to the US. You will receive plenty of help and advice if you just ask.. Happy hunting. Ray

[Steve Demeter]

Absolutely the best place to start with a car that you have not driven before is an autocross practice day. You need to master all of the skills required in autocross before attempting any race track driving. There are additional skills needed on the track, so you need to have a solid skill set and a complete understanding of your car first.

I am amazed that so few road racers ever show up at an autox. That is a huge missed opportunity, if for no other reason than learning how to get the most out of cold tires so that you can pass everyone else on the first lap.

I only autocrossed but one time.


Kept getting lost in the at least to me was a maze of cones.. Have to road race so I can tell which way to go (grey stuff between the grass)..

[dsmithwc04]

Agreed, I never could get into autocross. Besides, 5 minutes of track time and 5 hours of standing around..... not my idea of a saturday afternoon of fun.

[marshall9]

I only autocrossed but one time.


Kept getting lost in the at least to me was a maze of cones.. Have to road race so I can tell which way to go (grey stuff between the grass)..

Eventually, you "See" the track. It's great for learning to look ahead.

[TimH]

Agreed, I never could get into autocross. Besides, 5 minutes of track time and 5 hours of standing around..... not my idea of a saturday afternoon of fun.

I finally decided I just wasn't a good enough driver. Getting only three passes at speed through a given course left little opportunity to figure out the right way to take each corner, and there was DEFINITELY no time to think between corners...

I may be slow on a road course, but at least I can gradually become less slow.

[Offcamber1]

Agreed, I never could get into autocross. Besides, 5 minutes of track time and 5 hours of standing around..... not my idea of a saturday afternoon of fun.

kinda rough on the clutch, r&p, and CV joints too.

[EYERACE]

I auto-X'd the CF/FF Crossle a couple of times........seemed like having a shark in a goldfish bowl........was not about to buy the auto-X ratio gears for a track car and then spend an hour changing gears for a few minutes of run time and then another hour to change back to road racing ratios......so.......never got it out of first gear when I did make a run.........lots of putting in/holding in the clutch while I steered back and forth much more quickly than at any time when on a track.........and cold tires on a light weight car means one never gets the feel of having the car out on an edge like you'd already know from having track experience in the same car. I suppose when an FF is set up to only be an auto-X car it could be a better experience.

[swiftdrivr]

Welcome, Apexx. What are you driving?

[otownfit]

So I bit the bullet and purchased a 2007 Formula Renault from JWA Racing in the UK. It arrived this week after waiting almost 2 months to get in. While waiting, I went to the 3 day Skip Barber course, at Road Atlanta, did a few lead follow sessions at Autobahn Country Club near Chicago, and will be taking the advanced course next week. I drove the FR just around the parking lot, and my goodness, it is a whole other beast. I am now searching for a track support company near Orlando. I think I will also do a season racing with Skip before I get this car out there with you guys, and in the meantime get use to it on track days. But the car is absolutely beautiful!

[rickb99]

.....So I purchased a 2007 Formula Renault from JWA Racing in the UK. It arrived this week after waiting almost 2 months to get in......

You know, I don't understand this at all. About 12 to 15 years ago, Renault tried to get their FR series going in the US and South America. Many, many cars were imported and they ran a pro series (supporting bigger events) for 2 or 3 years including a number of races in Latin America. Then, rather suddenly they shut the endeavour down. That left a former Apexspeed member with 5 or 6 of their F2000 in his garage along with several 53' tow vehicles. He eventually sold off the stuff in an on line auction. But, like his stuff, there should be a number of the old Formula Renault cars around in the USA. Shouldn't need to go to Europe to import new ones.

[dsmithwc04]

Racing junk has one for $15k