Mounting shocks on a Crossle

[snettleship]

I just had the shocks rebuilt by Anze Suspension (updated Penske needles, different springs) and now trying to re-install them. Maybe it's because it's 90 degrees in the garage but I can't seem to get the fronts on. At least without removing some suspension pieces.
I can attach to the lower wishbone and can actually compress the shock (set a full soft) with my manly hands (ok, I think it is at like 75 lbs of rebound at full soft) but I can't get the upper eye to align good enough to get the 3/8 bolt through. I've tried with a jack to take some of the droop out of the equation but I just can't quite get it all to align.

I think it it basically the same as the 32/25/40.

Any advice, tricks, etc...? I've already decided a libation might help me get ready to try again tomorrow.

[Purple Frog]

I had the same exact problem two days ago.

Brut strength won out. ...with a lot of swearing.

The pressure in the shocks actually held the chassis up in the air.
Almost bled the nitrogen, then remembered I didn't have a bottle.

I completely loosened the spring as you did. Compressed the shock by hand.
As it grew into position (very quickly), i jammed a flathead screwdriver in one side of the fitting. Then I had something to lever with to get the bolt in from the opposite side.

[S Lathrop]

1. Did these shocks fit before?

2. Will things fit if the shocks were a bit shorter?

[Will Velkoff]

Unhook the sway bar so the suspension will go to full droop. Put the upper end on the chassis with the bushings and slide the bolt through, then raise up the drooped suspension by hand into the lower shock bushings and slide the bolt through.

[Purple Frog]

In my case the droop limit of the shocks is about 2" longer than the maximum droop of the A-Arms.

But... they were inexpensive.

[snettleship]

Thanks. I did unhook the sway bar. I think it was adjusted to be a little shorter to add a little more compression. I'll take another crack at it tomorrow.

[troyt]

Have had similar battles as well, so just throwing out some issues/ideas:
Are your new springs the same length as old ones? Did you measure shock travel or eye-to-eye lengths before/after rebuild to see if they changed anything? Removed/lubed/cleaned control arm pick-up points or steering points recently, i.e. sure you're getting full, non-binding travel on everything? Perches making contact at full droop?

[problemchild]

I have a variety of tapered punches in my toolbox to help align shock and a-arm eyes. If you can get any portion of the holes to align, then the punch can be used as a tool to pry with and align the holes. If I am still struggling, then I will bring a surplus bolt (with the end beveled) in from the back side, which once in place, gets pushed out with the permanent bolt. When really struggling, I use a 1" ratcheting tie down strap to help apply force in the required direction. If I cannot get it at this point, I start looking for interfering parts. As many bushings and hats are custom-made, they tend to be irregular, and can be re-arranged with parts that just work better together. I would certainly make sure each end fits nicely in each location before trying to fight the shock pressure for the final install. The body of a Penske may be much larger around the eye, for example, than a Bilstein.
Good luck!

[FVRacer21]

The Crossle 40-45 uses inboard rod ends in a vertical position, so they will not inhibit droop.

http://www.racingonthecheap.com/wp-c...1/IMG_0692.jpg

(This picture has some custom a-arms)

The outboard joints are a spherical bearing in the lower a-arm and an actual ball joint in the top. These can bind at some point.

Also, the steering rod ends can bind before anything else does.

I would leave the shock out, move the suspension toward droop and see what binds first.

Holding the suspension a little bit above this point, measure the distance eye to eye for the shock mounts.

Check your fully extended measurement of the new shock. It should be equal to or LESS than that measurement.

Your suspension should never be allowed to go into droop that will bend or stress rod ends.

In other words, even if the shock is extended because of the gas in it, it should be a bolt in; with out compressing, bending, putting force on, etc. This is not a street car!

If the shock is too long, then either the shaft is too long, stops in the shock are not right - however they adjust on this shock.

You may get it on, but the first curb or off road excursion, or even jacking the car up to change tires, will result in something stressed or bending.

If the shock is the right length, check the top and lower shock eyes to see if they are not too big for the area where the shock mounts. You can use some paint or bluing, paint the shocks and once installed bounce up and down and check for binding. Or you can leave the spring off, instal teh shock, and move the suspension through its travel and check for binding.

The 40 - 45F series gave people a lot of things to adjust, too many I think. Contact a Crossle distributor for the starting points for all dimensions. We used to have jigs for all a-arms and always started with each arm equal to each other, side to side.

Chris Z
Skip Barber Parts manager 1982-1988
Crossle 35 - 60F

[Steve Demeter]

Is there interference between the top of the shock and the tube that the upper rod end is attached to. Looks mighty close to me. just a wild thought.

[pooch776]

Scott,

I think Steve is on the correct path. It looks like your shock body is interfering with the upper A arm. Did you always mount your Penske shocks "up side down"?

The Crossle 40F and 45F are unique in how the front shocks and upper A arms mount. In full droop, the shock and upper A arm can be very close. When I installed Koni 8212 double adjustable shocks on my 45F, I had to use/make special eyelets and spring retainers. Below is a photo of my front suspension in full droop.

I am guessing your shock body is preventing the front suspension from going into full droop so that the lower eyelet will not line up with the mount on the lower A arm. If you manage to compress the shock enough, the interference will prevent the shock from extending fully in droop.

Joe

[snettleship]

Thank you all for your very useful responses! I do have the front shocks back on! The first thing I needed to realize was that I was working with a stressed component. That would be me.

I was able to attach the left front (the first one I was working on) by detaching the upper A-arm. You also would have noticed that the Ride Height Adjuster also can interfere with the upper A-arm. So, the answer is yes, the car can not get to full droop with that interference. That hasn't been a problem (that I know of) since when the car is sitting on the ground there is enough room between the A-arm and shock body.

For me, with the upper A-arm disconnected and using a jack under the lower A-arm goes into the hub, I can control where the shock (and A-arm) attach to the chassis.

This also brings up the very useful question of what I mounted the sock upside down. The answer is simple, it came that way. What has occurred to me is that maybe it was because this was raced as a Club Ford and with canisters. When I got the car it was for Vintage racing and canisters was not allowed. So, I had them rebuilt as rebound only shock. I was also rationalizing that this was also a less drag scenario.

I think I'll have this conversation with my race shop and see what they say. So, in my case:

I needed to clear the A-arm from the shock body and height adjuster
I needed to compress the shock when attached to the lower A-arm
I needed to use a jack to move the lower a-arm to attach all the upper mounting points
Judicial use of a "tapping" hammer and other alignment of holes tools (having various size punches helped) was the only way to methodically reattach everything.

Now, I hope the rears goes much easier.

[pooch776]

Scott,

Clearly they have "worked" in the past as we raced each other at VIR and Summit Point earlier this year. In a perfect world, your shock length would limit the front suspension in full droop and not the interference between the shock and the upper A arm.

Going forward, you may want to consider mounting the shock "right side up" and installing a combination of longer eyelets and/or cone spring retainers similar to what I used on my Koni's. See below for examples. This may require you to have Anze shorten the shocks or install droop limiters.

Joe

[snettleship]

Thanks, appreciate the advice. I thought I recognized that yellow in the picture. Sure as heck followed it enough.

[provamo]

what did you end up drinking and how big was the hammer?

[snettleship]

I have no idea if originally you could just slide the eyelets with the inserts the bolt goes through easy or not. Right now it's a snug fit as everything is not in perfect alignment (which it never is one I attach the shock to the lower a-arm). It requires a little 'coaxing' into place. I do use a little teflon lubricant or grease to help the coaxing. Maybe everyone elses suspension pieces just slide into place with no problem at all

I did find at my frustration peaks that I needed to downgrade to a small ball-peen hammer. The drinks in question are classified.