The new Hoosier Vintage FF tire arrives

[ffhillclimber]

Well, I was surprised to arrive home this afternoon and find my set of new Hoosier Vintage FF tires waiting. This will give me time to scrub them in and do some testing ahead of the "Wild Hare" vintage races at VIR the first of April. I have to thank my friend and Hoosier dealer Tom Reichel for getting these to me so soon. They must be from the first production run. I'll let you know my impressions this weekend.

[Christopher Shoemaker]

Would love to hear the results, please post when you have feedback!!! See you at VIR

--- Christopher Shoemaker
Royale Racing, LLC

Well, I was surprised to arrive home this afternoon and find my set of new Hoosier Vintage FF tires waiting. This will give me time to scrub them in and do some testing ahead of the "Wild Hare" vintage races at VIR the first of April. I have to thank my friend and Hoosier dealer Tom Reichel for getting these to me so soon. They must be from the first production run. I'll let you know my impressions this weekend.

[Tigaman]

Stan, I remember those wonderful high-speed autocross's at the airport fondly!

It'll be great to see the Caldwell out again! See you at VIR.

[racersonly]

Stan,
I'm curious as to the cost of these new tires......care to fill us in?

[Bernard Bradpiece]

From http://www.hoosiertire.com/index.htm

$175 front
$185 rear
for $720 a set

Best
BB2

[Earley Motorsports]

That is a lot better than the near $1200 I paid for a set of Avons. I hope they are as good but being Hoosiers they should be.

[GregPeluso]

Any feedback yet on performance of the new tire?

Greg

[scorp997]

I too am VERY interested in what the opinions are. It looks like our local vintage group is allowing them this year, and since I need to purchase new tires, they look like a great alternative to the Avons I was planning on buying.

I would like to know how they compare performance and wear wise to the Avons. Also, has anyone tried them in the rain? I would still go with the Avons if the performance of the Hoosiers isn't comparable.... Someone has to know!!!

[Albatross]

John....you may be the one to break the ice. I don't believe anyone has used the new Hoosiers for comparison, yet, as the deliveries are to take place about now, just before Apr 1.

[scorp997]

Great, a guinea pig... I thought they were being tested by some Apex members. I'm not sure I would be a good candidate for a comparison. I have been running some very old Dunlops, with a homebuilt engine down on power, and there are many more people here with more track time than me.

I will be running a much stronger pro built engine this season so it will make it more difficult to determine if the tires are an improvement or the engine. Hoping to learn from experience on this one..

Clayton, are you going to run any SOVREN events this year?

[Roland V. Johnson]

There are a couple of sets in SoCal. They did not arrive in time for the Willow Springs weekend. I am not sure when we will have them on the track. Any real data about tire life will take some time.

[scorp997]

So guys, help me out here.... I may be missing something..

How is it that several vintage organizations have approved this tire as a Monoposto type alternate when NO ONE (apparently) has tried them and compared them to the approved Dunlops and Avons?

There was a lot of discussions and testing done when Dunlop stopped producing their tire (a few years back) and Avons were suggested. Only one compound of the Avons were allowed and only after showing their testing results.

So again, how did these get approved? Who has some testing results that should have been presented to the organizations?

I'm all for getting tires at 2/3rds the cost of the current offerings. I don't like the idea of buying a set to find out after the fact that they don't work as advertised.

[rickb99]

....... It looks like our local vintage group is allowing them this year,...

Yup, SOVREN is allowing them this year with a year end review of whether they will be final approved for 2017. They say they may allow both or only one or neither depending.

[Robert J. Alder]

Similarly, RMVR ha some folks running and testing them, ex-officio, to see how they perform and then provide feedback. With luck, they will perform & wear virtually equal to the Dunlop and Avon so we can then alter our rules to use any of the three.

[scorp997]

Yup, SOVREN is allowing them this year with a year end review of whether they will be final approved for 2017. They say they may allow both or only one or neither depending.

Well, given that depending on the number of races I attend in a year, a set of tires can last more than one season. Not very comforting to know that at the end of the year SOVREN may opt to remove them from the approved list. That is exactly why it is important to get the facts in front of the committees to ensure they are making informed rule CHANGES, not tests. I guess it is time to email SOVREN to find out what they know.

[tstrong]

As Roland mentioned tires did not arrive in time for willow springs. I will be testing April 22 at Buttonwillow. Will be able to get a first look comparison of new performance to AR's and Dunlop/ Avon, but of course no comparison on competitive life. I'll let you know what I find. Todd

[scorp997]

Thanks, looking forward to the feedback. My first race is April 30th so I may have to decide prior to your running in order to get tires in time.

[Christopher Shoemaker]

Thanks, looking forward to the feedback. My first race is April 30th so I may have to decide prior to your running in order to get tires in time.

John - The Formula Ford Challenge Series is running them in early April, plus we have feedback from the testing that occured over the past 9 months. They will perform very similar to the AVON. The comparison to Dunlop proved to be difficult as there were no new ones to bring to the table.

Hoosier has done an excellent job to fill the gap Dunlop has created. I anticipate that by 2017 Monoposto will get its act together and then I think a lot of clubs will naturally fall in-line.

Happy to answer any questions, as all of us on the committee have a direct line to Hoosier on this topic.

--- Christopher Shoemaker
Royale Racing, LLC

[scorp997]

Any news on how these tires performed on track? Any suggestions on setup differences between these and Dunlops? (alignment, pressures, etc)

I bought a set for a race this coming weekend, just looking for info on what I should expect. I don't expect them to be much different, but you never know.

thanks!

[tstrong]

Ran the new Hoosiers last weekend at Buttonwillow in back to back comparison with the Toyo R888. Right out of the box they were about 2+ sec a 2 minute lap faster than the R888. Although did not get to spend much time dialing in setup it is very close to the Dunlop/ Avon setup. Did not get to compare directly to Dunlop/ Avon but tire feels very similar (as opposed to Toyo radial which has a much different feel and required driving style). I am definitely goingto use the Hoosiers for the upcoming SVRA events at Indy and Mid Ohio over the Toyos. Todd

[Bob Posner]

Todd Any pressure info? Thanks

[tstrong]

Started with 15F, 16R cold. Still need some fine tuning. Todd

[gbilawsky]

Did you change tire pressures, camber, caster and front ride height settings at all when going from the Toyos to the Hoosiers? Or, did you just go with your Avon/Dunlop set-up?

[tstrong]

Toyo setup is quite a bit different than the Avon/ Dunlop setup. Ran the Hoosiers with settings very close to Avon/ Dunlop. Will be tweaking the setup a little more this weekend at California speedway.

[LFFR]

Did some testing with the new Hoosier VFF tires at PPIR, 04/22/16. Report attached.

Looks like they will be quite comparable to the Dunlops!

John Mihalich, Jr.
Lotus 61/FF/28

[Albatross]

I was surprised that you didn't incur higher tire temperatures. Wonder what Hoosier feels the optimum tire temperatures should be? Appears that you performed a very nice complete test that I and others would like to thank you.

[Ralph Z.]

Did some testing with the new Hoosier VFF tires at PPIR, 04/22/16. Report attached.

Looks like they will be quite comparable to the Dunlops!

John Mihalich, Jr.
Lotus 61/FF/28

Many thanks for the report. Very helpful as we consider our tire options.

[Robert J. Alder]

Damn John. If I'd known you were doing all this last weekend, I've come to help. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Do you mind if I post this thread on the RMVR Bulletin Board Hoosier tire thread?

[LFFR]

Bob,

I was trying to post it to the RMVR BBS but it wouldn't let me because the file was a pdf. If you can make it happen, go for it.
John M.

[scorp997]

Thanks John for posting your results.
Looking forward to trying these out this weekend

[ffhillclimber]

Ok, I ran the new Hoosier VFF at the Wild Hare VDCA race at VIR and although I was totally geared wrong, still ran the third quickest of the 8 pre'72 FF1600s at 2:16.14. These were new tires and seemed to improve over the weekend. Just for comparison, I also ran a time trial event last weekend (4/23/2016) at the 2 mile NCCAR track, running the VFF Hoosiers in the morning session and the Hoosier R25B slicks in the afternoon session. The VFF tires had a best lap of 94.351 vs a best lap of 88.778 for the R25B slicks.

[Roland V. Johnson]

We ran used Avon's on Dan Cowdrey's Titan Mk-6 Saturday at SVRA Fontana event. Finished 3rd to Bob Hattle's Swift and Todd Strong's Titan Mk-9 (both on Hoosiers. in a tight race. On Sunday Dan beat Todd by half a car length for the win on Hoosiers we ran on another car Saturday. Lap times were about a second slower Sunday.....but so were Todd and Bob's lap times. The track was slower. The driver of the car I swapped the tires with felt that the used Avon's had a bit less grip in the rear. I did not change the setup from the Avon settings. Dan was impressed with the Hoosiers. His only comment was that they felt a bit squirmy on the oval. The only question we still have is how long do they remain competitive.

[scorp997]

Ran the tires this last weekend, once I upped the tire pressures (Dunlop range was a bit low) they handled very predictably and felt good.

I started with my usual Dunlop range (12/14) and the car was a REAL handfull. It was suggested to go up to 15/15 and the change was dramatic. My wear was nice and even, though a couple others had some wear on the inside edges of the fronts.

While I'm not the most experienced FF racer out there, I do give these a thumbs up . Everyone who ran them at our event had positive comments on them, I only heard one person who felt he needed to do more development to equal the Dunlops.

Thanks to everyone for the comments, work and support. Looks like racing actually got a little less expensive (in this case), that is a welcome change!!

[Tom Duncan]

Any more experiences/recommendations to report on the Hoosier vintage FF tires?

I'm planning on running the SVRA Sonoma event in my 1981 PRS SCCA Club Ford with a nice new set of Hoosiers. My previous experience is 20+ years running SCCA Club Ford events on American Racer 133's at Sears Point, Laguna Seca and Thunderhill.

I have only run one other vintage event, at Thunderhill where I had a used set of Avons. I found the rear tires of the set were not so good, mid-corner oversteer on about a third of the corners common all weekend. I tried various combinations of springs, bars, shock settings and camber but it didn't make much difference so I think they were just burnt up before I got them. That's OK, the price was right and the weekend was fun.

In any event can anyone suggest a basic setup I should start with on the Hoosiers? The PRS has late Crossle (45) geometry.

Recommended to me or read here are camber settings of .5 at the front and rear, cold pressures of 15 or 16 at both ends, looking for hot temps 18 to 20 at both ends, minimum temp of the tread 160.

I would be especially interested to hear from folks that have come from the AR133's to Hoosiers.

Any comments?

Thanks in advance.

Tom Duncan

[Yzracing159]

Has anyone had any more experience with these tires yet?

[scott fairchild]

I had to stand each corner up by 0.2 degrees. Ran 1psi cold lower than the Dunlops, resulted in a win

[Bernard Bradpiece]

Scott, as ever is, being modest. He won a hard fought contest with lead changes most laps in a really competitive group - 31 FF entries. His best lap on Hoosiers was identical to his best lap last year (when he also won!), 1-21.6 at Summit Point Main circuit. Woodman sold out and had to express a further 10 sets in to meet demand. The general consensus was the tires are excellent, stable through the race and at least as fast as the Avons. But there was also a consensus that less camber was required to get the best handling. This was an important point.
Hope that is useful.
BB

[Tom Duncan]

I used a set of sticker Hoosier VFF tires at last weekends SVRA Sears Point (Sonoma) event. I'm new to the vintage racing world, the only other event I've done was the CSRG weekend at Thunderhill a couple of months ago on a set of used Avons. I've race my car in SCCA regionals since 1988 however.

My car is a 1981 PRS Club Ford and set up rather stiffly for the American Racer AR133. The frame has been strengthened as well so overall the tires talk to a pretty stiff chassis, unlike most true vintage FF's I imagine. The combination of this car setup and the stiff sidewall of the Hoosier VFF made for little grip for me but I don't fault the tires for that. I do expect to re-engineer the suspension in the form of softer springing overall plus different shock valving, currently B/C. I'll need to get longer shocks for the back to accomodate the roll and will have to get comfortable with a car that rolls a lot, not my favorite race car characteristic but I'll put up with it for the sake of 25 car fields (vs about five max in the local SCCA regionals).

As to physical wear from the six on-track sessions it has been miniscule at most. I measured 6mm tread depth when they were new and get the same measurement now.

I was seeing tread temps of about 160-180 degrees, with track temps into the 110s and air temp well into the 90s. I don't think they were working hard enough as I think the tread temps should have been higher but the stiff suspension never let them bite properly.

Cold tire pressures were recommended from 10/12 to 18/18 (f/r) so I don't think anyone really knew. I went on the basis of center tire temp hot and used 12/14 cold, usually coming off the track about 4lbs higher.

I don't have a direct comparison but after talking to several other drivers that also used the Hoosiers last weekend the general feeling is there isn't much difference from the Avons and Dunlops, except the price.

Longevity is the only real question mark.

Tom Duncan

[Roland V. Johnson]

Dan Cowdrey ran the Hoosiers at the Sonoma Vintage event with the same set-up as the Avons. Since you can't really get any feed back from him, the set-up must have worked OK. He won Vintage Ford, second only in the Ford field to a really well prepared and driven Club Ford. I think there were 30 + FF's and he was around 4th overall. (left for Indy before I got any results)

[s800racer]

I used a set of sticker Hoosier VFF tires at last weekends SVRA Sears Point (Sonoma) event. I'm new to the vintage racing world, the only other event I've done was the CSRG weekend at Thunderhill a couple of months ago on a set of used Avons. I've race my car in SCCA regionals since 1988 however.

My car is a 1981 PRS Club Ford and set up rather stiffly for the American Racer AR133. The frame has been strengthened as well so overall the tires talk to a pretty stiff chassis, unlike most true vintage FF's I imagine. The combination of this car setup and the stiff sidewall of the Hoosier VFF made for little grip for me but I don't fault the tires for that. I do expect to re-engineer the suspension in the form of softer springing overall plus different shock valving, currently B/C. I'll need to get longer shocks for the back to accomodate the roll and will have to get comfortable with a car that rolls a lot, not my favorite race car characteristic but I'll put up with it for the sake of 25 car fields (vs about five max in the local SCCA regionals).

As to physical wear from the six on-track sessions it has been miniscule at most. I measured 6mm tread depth when they were new and get the same measurement now.

I was seeing tread temps of about 160-180 degrees, with track temps into the 110s and air temp well into the 90s. I don't think they were working hard enough as I think the tread temps should have been higher but the stiff suspension never let them bite properly.

Cold tire pressures were recommended from 10/12 to 18/18 (f/r) so I don't think anyone really knew. I went on the basis of center tire temp hot and used 12/14 cold, usually coming off the track about 4lbs higher.

I don't have a direct comparison but after talking to several other drivers that also used the Hoosiers last weekend the general feeling is there isn't much difference from the Avons and Dunlops, except the price.

Longevity is the only real question mark.

Tom Duncan

Not sure that stiff vs. soft should be an issue. Scott Fairchild runs a very stiff set-up on his Zink Z10 and as noted above, he makes them stick as well as anyone. I would consider changes in camber/castor/toe settings before changing the springs.

Just my .02