ApexSpeed 2015 League Race #9 - Mosport - March 16th

[Keith Carter]

Mid-Ohio is always a fun one. It was a very tight race for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place positions with me taking the win and Roger and Eric rounding out the podium. Congrats to Roger for the fastest lap of the race! Chris ended up parking his car early on and may have ended up sitting in the grandstands for the rest of the race. The next stop on our calendar we head back to Canada to Mosport (..or should I say Canadian Tire Motorsports Park). This is always a fun track to race on with severe elevation changes and high speed corners.

After briefly reviewing the tracks available for rFactor and the version of Mosport we've used in the past, I've decided to use a different version from NeelJ with a lot more detail. It can be found HERE

[Keith Carter]

There's still some left on the table as far as lap times go, but it seems the AI is really fast here!

[FrankRizzo]

Joe, if you're reading this COME BACK! I need someone on my same level of crappiness to race with! :-)

For those of you that say that I should practice more, and get competitive with the top 4, I offer this:

In order to get better, I'd have to practice a lot more.
In order to practice a lot more, I'd have to not hate the SRF.

I hate the SRF. So, there you go.

Upon my early exit from the race, (Team start and park!), I fired up Race Room Experience, and checked on the competitions. As luck would have it, they have a formula car competition going on, and what track do they use? Why, Mid-Ohio. So, that proved to me that I didn't hate the TRACK, just the car.

[Eric Little]

I am not the poster boy for the car either but it is not that bad. Work on the setup to remove as much understeer as possible (low front ride height, high rear ride height, soft front [springs and roll], stiff rear [springs and roll], camber and pressure to get good tire temperatures). I also play with toe settings to minimize friction (they are not very powerful cars) and to get it to turn in. Brake bias is another that helps (more to the front than you would think).

Next is driving. The car does not like to turn in. Brake earlier, get it to turn down to the apex (I still struggle with this but I also struggle with it in a real car. If you watch the two videos I posted, that pretty much proves it. There has yet to be an Apex created that I cannot miss.) then get on the power. This is definitely a slow in and fast out car.

That will help get you to the battle for fourth. Then you will spend your time wondering where that last 0.5 seconds are that will keep you up there with Keith and Roger. Oh, and try to forget that Jacques who is giving you a devil of a time in the battle for third is using a keyboard. If you can't forget, I suggest you move to a med card or recreational use state and just get to the point where you no longer care.

Eric

[RSS]

To get the car to turn in I do the following. Will use mid-o for examples as we where just there.

Faster corners aka. no braking leading into a corner (Turn 1 at Mid-O)
When entering this corner no braking is required but you must slowly release the throttle all the way down to the apex then get back on the throttle post apex. If you back off the throttle completely the car will plow. But if you slowly release it it will load that front outer tire for the whole turn in and the car almost turns in like a real car not an SRF.

This is also the method I used to get through Turns 5 and 6 which i saw people braking in so I made up huge ground through there. I also used this method going through Turn 11 before the Carousel.

Slower corners aka. I can't go slow enough to make this car turn (Turn 2 at Mid-O)
When you are in slow tight corners or long slow corners I blip the throttle constantly to get the nose of the car to turn in. It's a pretty aggressive but short blip that you do over and over and you will see the nose of the car start to dive in and actually turn. It is the sim version of throttle steering through weight transfer in an under powered car.

I also used this method in the Carousel.

The other thing that will help the car turn in is down shifting use this late into a corner where you aren't quite going to make the apex hit the downshift and the car will rotate nicely (Obviously only works if you are carrying a higher gear deeper into the corner).

I used this method on Turn 3 after releasing the brake and turning down i was carrying too much speed to get to the right before turn 4 so i would downshift right before the apex and it would point the car up the right side of the track. I also used this method in Turns 9 and 12/13 as i was exiting the carousel.

If you want to get a setup let me know a night you want to practice and I can give you one of mine.

[FrankRizzo]

I am not the poster boy for the car either but it is not that bad. Work on the setup to remove as much understeer as possible (low front ride height, high rear ride height, soft front [springs and roll], stiff rear [springs and roll], camber and pressure to get good tire temperatures). I also play with toe settings to minimize friction (they are not very powerful cars) and to get it to turn in. Brake bias is another that helps (more to the front than you would think).

Next is driving. The car does not like to turn in. Brake earlier, get it to turn down to the apex (I still struggle with this but I also struggle with it in a real car. If you watch the two videos I posted, that pretty much proves it. There has yet to be an Apex created that I cannot miss.) then get on the power. This is definitely a slow in and fast out car.

That will help get you to the battle for fourth. Then you will spend your time wondering where that last 0.5 seconds are that will keep you up there with Keith and Roger. Oh, and try to forget that Jacques who is giving you a devil of a time in the battle for third is using a keyboard. If you can't forget, I suggest you move to a med card or recreational use state and just get to the point where you no longer care.

Eric

Well, you detailed my weakness pretty well. My car setup skills are severely lacking. I'm running the car as rFactor gives it to me. So, that's probably a big chunk of my problems. (I hope!). I'll make those changes, and see if they reduce the suck.

Thanks Eric!

[Eric Little]

Well, you detailed my weakness pretty well. My car setup skills are severely lacking. I'm running the car as rFactor gives it to me. So, that's probably a big chunk of my problems. (I hope!). I'll make those changes, and see if they reduce the suck.

Thanks Eric!

That and drive like Roger highlighted. What you have to do in this simulator to counter understeer is totally counter-intuitive. That said, it does indeed work. Oh, and take Roger up on his offer to test with him and get his setup.

In the end though, it will take a lot of laps to understand how the car handles and how to cope with it. But hopefully we can get you up to the rest of the grid so that we have more people to dice it up with.

Eric

[Eric Little]

Just to set expectations, the setup will help but far more time comes from the driving style. Just to experiment, I ran my setup and turned times consistent with my posted best for Mosport at 1:38.754. I then used the default setup from rFactor and ran 1:38.943. I doubt I will find more than maybe 0.1 more before we race. At this point, I will be happy with being able to consistently turn laps under 1:39.

Seconds come from driving style. Tenths come from setup. Make sure you hit the apex. A few feet outside of the apex will add 0.1 per turn. It adds up quickly. Slow in, fast out... Slow in, fast out... say it with me... slow in, fast out.

I will also offer to test with you and do some lead follow to let you get a good view of my line. That should get you closer to Roger and Keith where you can then learn their line and I will have yet another that is faster than I am.

[RSS]

Sweet jebus the sims are quick I only see another 2-3 tenths out there and that would just put me even with the sim times.

[Eric Little]

As much fun as this track is, I have two.... three problems.

1. I cannot find that last .6
2. Turns out I have a bad potentiometer in my pedals (I get 95% throttle at best... I wonder if this is related to number 1 above?)
3. I have a conflict next Tuesday with a kids event (as much as I enjoy play racing with you all, I enjoy watching and listening to my kids perform better).

Looks like my run at Jacques in the points is over. Oh well. Guess I need to start looking for a new controller and practicing for Road Atlanta.

Eric

[FrankRizzo]

I would have no problem rescheduling for you Eric.

[RSS]

Yeah we can move it to wed if that helps

[Eric Little]

Thanks for the offer gentlemen. I will need to check the homelife schedule but I do not know off hand of anything that is a problem on Wednesday. That said, I leave it to the majority and if others cannot make Wednesday well.... I knew the schedule before hand.

Thanks
Eric

P.S. I found an article on fixing my pedal box. It worked. I appear to get 100% throttle again. Too bad it was not worth 0.5 seconds but it did take a little bit of time off. I think my entire problem is in Moss. Just cannot get back to the throttle early enough. Back to testing.

[Eric Little]

Looks like Wednesday is fine for me. That said, if even one other has a conflict, keep it on Tuesday. I would hate to make someone else miss because I could not make the original date. I really do appreciate the offer and if it works, then I am hoping that the draft on the long (sort of) straight is enough to erase my half second deficit.

Eric

[RSS]

Usually my first spin or accident fixes the deficit doesn't it?

[Eric Little]

Usually my first spin or accident fixes the deficit doesn't it?

As long as I don't cause your accident, I am fine with that. But just to make sure, I think you better spin twice. That goes for Keith and Jacques too. And that is how I win... when no one else wants to.

Eric

[Keith Carter]

We can do Wednesdays for Mosport and Road Atlanta. I'm in for that.

[Keith Carter]

Just to confirm, we will be racing Wednesday the 16th now for this event and the Road Atlanta event. Please confirm if you will be making it Wednesday night at 9pm CDT. We just switched for daylight savings so note the time may have changed for you.

[Eric Little]

Just to confirm, we will be racing Wednesday the 16th now for this event and the Road Atlanta event.

Not to be pedantic but to confirm, we are not running a double header Wednesday the 16th... correct? It is the 16th for Mosport and the 30th for Road Atlanta... right?

That said, I will be there on the 16th. Thanks to everyone for making the change to accommodate my schedule.

Eric

[Keith Carter]

You are correct. Road Atlanta will be in two weeks from Wednesday.

[RSS]

I am in.

[FrankRizzo]

I may run some laps tonight to refresh my memory. I used to race that a lot in "Sports Car GT".

[Keith Carter]

See you guys in about 15 minutes?