Thinking about getting into a F1000

[99sh]

Hey guys, been a long time lurker first time poster. I've recently sold my supercharged S2000 trackcar and looking to purchase a replacement, specifically the Stohr F1000. I've been roadracing bikes (Duc 1098 now) and cars for the last 10 years or so. I was thinking of purchasing an ACR viper when I starting thinking about open wheel vehicles. It's cheaper and purpose built.

My primary use will be trackdays only; do not plan or have the time to race competitively. Essentially looking to have some fun, maybe 8-10 trackdays a year.

I'm still absorbing data and reading as much as I can, but a turn-key package is something I'm looking for. I'm trying to get an understanding of recurring maintenance items. From what I can tell it appears to be pretty straight forward. Aside from tires, fluids, chain/sprocket and suspension items are they any other hidden costs associated with owning a w2w car?

Any other comments/suggestions are welcome!

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Check with your favorite track day operator. Most do not allow open wheel cars.

[Gearslingr]

99sh, as for our tracks here in Colorado... they allow Formula race cars on track for open track day hot lapping.

Like BBR said, I'd check with your local race facilities to know for sure.

Doug

[jaltaman]

They also have open wheel run groups out at what used to be Miller. The NASA group there is open wheel friendly. ;-)

As for costs, I have been keeping pretty thorough records for the past 6 years, so PM me if you'd like more info.

[JohnPaul]

Might as well race regional stuff. It's the basically same exact time and money spent as doing a track day and at least you'll be safe from having to run with tin tops and you'll actually be racing and not just driving fast......just be warned once you start you won't stop.

[99sh]

Thanks for the inputs guys! Good point on checking with the local providers. I know one my local tracks, Buttonwillow, has open days scattered throughout the year. For the ones I've gone to, it's been essentially an empty track. Plan to do many of those types of events, maybe pickup a race day is time permits.

I'm still very indecisive whether I should stick with a tin car(ACR) or switch over to open wheel (F1000).

[Charles Livingston]

If you are interested in an F1000, Mike Holland's Van Diemen (or Van Devin) conversion (currently on this site's FB classifieds) is an excellent deal for a very good car. Jeremy Hill has consistently been one of the fastest F1000 drivers in a Van Diemen conversion. If you are looking for a turnkey F1000 and do not want to spend the money on a new car, you can't beat Mike's car:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67833

Charles Livingston

[Mike Holland]

Thanks Charles. Yes still available. With the chassis being used for other classes, i.e. FF,FC, there are many aftermarket spares available. Email me and we can discuss

[patman]

I'm not a FB expert here, but if you really are planning for track days only, you might want to look into a sports racer instead. They (some of them anyway) are mechanically pretty much the same as a F1000, but with a full body so most track day groups allow them where open wheel often isn't.

Personally I think you will have more fun racing, but something to think about anyway.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Thanks for the inputs guys! Good point on checking with the local providers. I know one my local tracks, Buttonwillow, has open days scattered throughout the year. For the ones I've gone to, it's been essentially an empty track. Plan to do many of those types of events, maybe pickup a race day is time permits.

I'm still very indecisive whether I should stick with a tin car(ACR) or switch over to open wheel (F1000).

You're referring to Open Test Days which are different from "Trackdays" (SpeedVentures, etc) in my mind.
Yes, open test days are friendly. On race weekends they usually run open wheel groups separate from tin tops. The rest of the time it varies.

I'll be at Button this weekend for regionals...

Thunderhill has them too. Not sure the distances for you....

I think JP is right...

[FrankRizzo]

I'm not a FB expert here, but if you really are planning for track days only, you might want to look into a sports racer instead. They (some of them anyway) are mechanically pretty much the same as a F1000, but with a full body so most track day groups allow them where open wheel often isn't.

Personally I think you will have more fun racing, but something to think about anyway.

I've seen this myself. Some of my local groups allow my bud to run his Palatov D1, but won't allow me to run my FM, even though I'll probably be slower than the D1.

It makes no sense, and arguing with them is futile.

[gcoffin]

Hmm, my understanding is that the gentleman's open wheel track day car of choice is the standard FM. You can pound the living day lights out of them, maintain them with a garden hose and a set of brake pads, manage them at the track all by yourself, and sell it for what you bought it for when you are done.

[JakeL]

specifically the Stohr F1000...
I'm still absorbing data and reading as much as I can, but a turn-key package is something I'm looking for. I'm trying to get an understanding of recurring maintenance items. From what I can tell it appears to be pretty straight forward. Aside from tires, fluids, chain/sprocket and suspension items are they any other hidden costs associated with owning a w2w car?

Any other comments/suggestions are welcome!

Welcome to the forum.

You're in a similar spot to where I was several years ago - I sold a Corvette and bought a purpose-built car so I could go race more cheaply - and go faster to boot. A fellow let me drive his Cheetah sports racer one day, and I was hooked - put the 'vette up for sale the next day . You will LOVE driving the car. Nothing else matches the sound, the speed, and the looks, or the price to do it at.

You've sort of hit the high points on maintenance, but here are some notes:

Tires: F1000's use Hoosier R25 and R35 compound. R35's last forever - they sort of get hard before the rubber really wears out. the R25's are definitely faster, but definitely don't last as long. For track day use, if you buy yourself R35's, you'll never have to worry about it. John Berget Tire in Wisconsin sells takeoff sets that are in *great* shape fro $300 shipped, so tires can be almost a non-issue cost-wise, if the last second or so isn't important.

Fluids: You'll find that you burn a lot less fuel, and since all the engines are, basically stock bike engines, you can run 91 octane at the track, which is nice and cheap compared to race fuel. Nice eh?

Chain/Sprocket: probably the biggest item on the car to look after closely. Sprockets wear, although slowly, if the chain is adjusted right. Keep a close eye on the chain and keep it lubed. It's rare these days for folks to break a chain, but if you let it get really loose, it will chew up your sprockets and you'll have to replace them, but sprockets are cheap.

Brakes: Generally, pads and rotors last a long time - 1/2 to a full season of racing depending on size and compound for pads. I'm still on my original set of rotors from 2012. (Stohr F1000)

Suspension: Most of the cars are not built on the ragged edge of reliability, so suspension pieces are robust and don't need replacement on much of a schedule. On the Stohr, the lower rear spherical bearing for the lower wishbone takes a beating and so I've replaced each of those on my car, but beyond that, just do a quick nut-and-bolt on all the rod ends. Hardly anything ever moves, and the car holds an alignment perfectly - most of the time I roll the car on and off the scales unless I've changed something.

The venue you plan to run in is a question of sports racer vs open wheel. Stohr DSRs are also great cars to run, or if your budget is a bit lower, I'm a big fan of Radicals - they're silly reliable, and great fun to drive, though generally quite a bit slower than an F1000 or a true DSR. I started with a Radical Prosport, so I might be biased there too

Happy to answer any questions you've got in general or in specific - I've owned Stohr cars since 2008, and if that's what you're chiefly looking at, I'd be happy to help. There are at least two really nice Stohr F1000's for sale on the forum right now (disclosure: one of which is mine - 2 babies = no racing), so you have some good options if that's the direction you go. There are several top-flight cars of various makes available at the moment, so it'd be hard to go wrong with anything you choose.

Cheers,

-Jake
jake.latham@gmail.com
970-215-4570

[JakeL]

I'm still very indecisive whether I should stick with a tin car(ACR) or switch over to open wheel (F1000).

Watch more videos like these, and you'll cure your indecision

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYSEh-ZiUZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbRm8YbOQy0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90cmxXOfA6o

-Jake

[99sh]

^ Thanks for the great feedback. The maintenance items don't seem bad at all and in line with what I was expecting. In my search, ran into an old thread where someone posted for every 1 hour of race time, 8 hours of maint is required. The poster didnt go into details, but I cannot see why and what would take that long (maybe bulk of it was alignment?)

Anyways, how are you guys insuring these toys? (from garage to paddock). I'm assuming my AAA auto policy won't cover garage storage & transport.

[formulasuper]

If it's just track days then you'd be best off with Formula S. No expensive spec rules to meet other than the standard safety rules which you'll have with any class car.

[jaltaman]

Homeowners insurance covers the stuff while it's in the trailer and stowed at home or even at the track - make sure you have adequate coverage for everything as you may have to increase your coverage. I also added the trailer to my auto insurance policy so I am covered for anything that doesn't occur on track.

Is that what you were looking for?

As you probably are aware, anything that happens on track is not covered by auto or homeowners insurance.

[99sh]

Homeowners insurance covers the stuff while it's in the trailer and stowed at home or even at the track - make sure you have adequate coverage for everything as you may have to increase your coverage. I also added the trailer to my auto insurance policy so I am covered for anything that doesn't occur on track.

Is that what you were looking for?

As you probably are aware, anything that happens on track is not covered by auto or homeowners insurance.

Yes, that's the answer I was looking for. Wasn't sure that home owners insurance covers the trailer/car when outside the home perimeter.

[JakeL]

Some folks also use supplemental services like Parish-Heacock that are typically classic car insurers, where you can specify the value, which determines your rate.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect it offers additional coverages beyond homeowners, though as John says, you're *never* covered on track as far as I know.

-Jake

[patman]

My homeowners covers it at home and in storage, auto policy on my truck covers whatever I am towing.

As far as I am aware, insurance is not available or extremely expensive for racing.

Track days are a whole different story, there are several companies that will insure your car while on the track at a track day for an agreed value. Personally I don't use them, as the cost/benefit doesn't work for me, but you may want to look into it.

[Matt Clark]

Yes, that's the answer I was looking for. Wasn't sure that home owners insurance covers the trailer/car when outside the home perimeter.

Beware of this part. Ask your insurance company this one to be sure. When I had Erie Insurance, my race car was NOT covered even in the garage at home because it was a car. But, because it was not a registered street vehicle, it wasn't covered there either. When I asked to get something to cover it at home & in transport, they wouldn't touch it.

[jwickert3]

I know that you said you have raced but in the Midwest where I live there aren't many (if any) track days that allow purpose built open wheel cars and the test and tune days usually require a license of some kind. I recently bought a fv and can't find a place to run it until the drivers school.

Sent from my SM-T567V using Tapatalk

[mikey]

Surprised nobody else has mentioned this, but if you have not had any experience in open wheel winged cars, consider something other than F1000 for your first. I ran Corvettes for 15 years and was looking at F1000 about 5 years ago because I thought they were the most appealing. After listening to other's input, I test drove an FE instead and wrote a check the next day. Any winged formula car is going to run circles around your S2000. A standard FM would also be a great starter formula car. Both FE and FM are super reliable and super cheap to maintain. The numbers you hear about 3-8 hours of maintenance per hour on track are rough math and considering you average only 2-4 hours of track time in a weekend, it really isn't that high. If you can wrench yourself, then it will make the hobby way more affordable. Most of the work is simple nut/bolt checks, make sure everything stays tight, inspecting wear items, gear stacks, car setup, etc.

Starting with an FE or FM will get you the initial experience with the effects of aero and you can easily recoup your initial investment in 1-2 years and move up. I moved up to a Pro Formula Mazda after 2 years and am really glad I didn't start with the PFM. It is quite a bit more difficult to drive to its limit than the FE was.

I run a lot of HPDE, it's never been an issue in the Southeast finding groups to run with. Did 10 events last year at 9 different tracks. Just be prepared to essentially run against yourself. Not likely to find any wheel to wheel competition at HPDE. It's ok for me, as I just enjoy the thrill of the car, competing against myself, and the camaraderie at the track.

Then again, at most regional races I've noted you're lucky to have one or two to seriously compete with as well. The skill level is so varying, there's often one guy out front by himself, maybe one close in second, and if you have 6-10 cars in the group you're lucky and might have one of those drivers that is similar skill that will generate some good wheel to wheel for you.

If I wanted to go wheel to wheel, it would be SRF, because it's the only open cockpit class that consistently gets large turnout and would guarantee true wheel to wheel races for me.

cheers,
Mikey

[R. Pare]

If I wanted to go wheel to wheel, it would be SRF, because it's the only open cockpit class that consistently gets large turnout and would guarantee true wheel to wheel races for me.


Mikey

And if you ever drive one, you will change your mind!

[mikey]

And if you ever drive one, you will change your mind!

LOL, it's a very big "IF" .. I don't suspect I'll be very enamored by their performance. But do figure it could be as fun as go-karts at the park and when I'm old I won't be able to do 2.5G anyway.

[stephen wilson]

Beware of this part. Ask your insurance company this one to be sure. When I had Erie Insurance, my race car was NOT covered even in the garage at home because it was a car. But, because it was not a registered street vehicle, it wasn't covered there either. When I asked to get something to cover it at home & in transport, they wouldn't touch it.

Ditto, mine said no motorized vehicles are covered, race cars, ATV's, whatever. I don't believe my trailer is covered when sitting unhooked.

I also agree starting in an F1000 is really jumping into the deep end of the pool. I was overwhelmed doing my first school in a CF.

[provamo]

its just a car

i think he should do it

[Wright D]

Gary and I would love to put you in a F1000 for a test drive! They are soooo bad ass! The performance level you get for the price of owning and operating one is one of the best deals out there. Of course you'd say "Dustin, you build these cars, so of course you think that." And my response would be "That is EXACTLY why I do build these cars!" F1 sound, F1 paddle shifters, F1 looks, lots of manufactures to chose from, and a great group of guys to race with!

[Daryl DeArman]

If it's just track days then you'd be best off with Formula S. No expensive spec rules to meet other than the standard safety rules which you'll have with any class car.

^^^^^^^^^

This x1000

Get a car that is a bit more robust that you can hammer on for 100's of hours a year.

A FM may not/is not near as sexy but put whatever aero you want on it and toss another 100hp at it and I'm certain you will have tons of fun.

A F1000 is a serious race car with careful attention to get as much performance the ruleset will allow with maintenance/replacement intervals people are happy with. Running those cars 200 hours a year would be a whole other level of commitment of time and money.

[mousecatcher]

Homeowners insurance covers the stuff while it's in the trailer and stowed at home or even at the track - make sure you have adequate coverage for everything as you may have to increase your coverage. I also added the trailer to my auto insurance policy so I am covered for anything that doesn't occur on track.

You better check your policy. Mine is pretty standard and my homeowners' does NOT cover the trailer and my trailer insurance does NOT cover any automobile (including a race car) inside the trailer.

Hagerty, Lockton, various other guys offer STP insurance for fairly cheap. Most folks call it STP (Storage Transport Paddock), Hagerty calls theirs OTC (Other Than Collision).

[mousecatcher]

Hey guys, been a long time lurker first time poster. I've recently sold my supercharged S2000 trackcar and looking to purchase a replacement, specifically the Stohr F1000. I've been roadracing bikes (Duc 1098 now) and cars for the last 10 years or so. I was thinking of purchasing an ACR viper when I starting thinking about open wheel vehicles. It's cheaper and purpose built.

My primary use will be trackdays only; do not plan or have the time to race competitively. Essentially looking to have some fun, maybe 8-10 trackdays a year.

I'm still absorbing data and reading as much as I can, but a turn-key package is something I'm looking for. I'm trying to get an understanding of recurring maintenance items. From what I can tell it appears to be pretty straight forward. Aside from tires, fluids, chain/sprocket and suspension items are they any other hidden costs associated with owning a w2w car?

Any other comments/suggestions are welcome!

You're in my neighborhood (San Jose). PM me and come by my shop sometime, I can help you get on track for day 1 and you can go from there.

Do you have a racing license? You'll need one to get any open wheel car on track here. There's only 1-2 local HPDE groups that allow open wheel so your best bet is test days at BW or Sonoma. Of which there are very many, but you need a current license. I guess you have one if you've been racing cars you say?

There are plenty of rental options locally so I highly recommend doing that first before buying anything. If you are going to end up with 10 days/yr the extra cost for a rental is a drop in the bucket.

[Rob E]

Mousecatcher has given you some good advice there. Rental of a car for half a day to feel it out would be a good bargain compared to buying one and deciding that this type of car is not for you.

I find it unlikely but you may not like a F 1000 for some reason. *Sit too reclined, too bumpy, whatever* so trying one out for a few hours with a guy who knows the cars and a set-up that is also known will tell you right away if that's what you want. Buying one without that could have you searching for the set-up and feeling frustrated because you can't just put on the helmet and jump in like your S2000 (I am presuming that refers to a Honda since you said it was supercharged) There is a bit more to a car like this. If you have a pretty good understanding of vehicle dynamics and adjustments then this car will point out to you that a pretty good understanding is not at all like understanding. Don't take that comment as a negative, just recognize that the learning curve is tall and steep. Once you figure it out it will be rewarding, though.

[Spengo]

What about a Stohr P1 instead? If you just want the fastest and sexiest club racecar money can buy the P1s have the F1000s beat. Those massive low rear wings incite a tingling in my nether regions. They are basically an F1000 with full bodywork, lower drag, and more downforce. Plus you could bring it to regular closed wheel track days. Still requires all the maintenance and care of an F1000 car though. It ain't no track day special.

After you try some things and get an idea of what it takes to run a racecar you may find the previously suggested rugged and low maintenance formula mazda is plenty of car to start with though. They go brappity brapp and shoot fireballs out the back. I have always appreciated that. And they have that rad 80s look to them, like you should be doing lines of cocaine off the wings and driving them into an orange palm tree sunset. Gonna need some tobacco sponsors.

[Stan Clayton]

Hey guys, been a long time lurker first time poster. I've recently sold my supercharged S2000 trackcar and looking to purchase a replacement, specifically the Stohr F1000. I've been roadracing bikes (Duc 1098 now) and cars for the last 10 years or so. I was thinking of purchasing an ACR viper when I starting thinking about open wheel vehicles. It's cheaper and purpose built.

My primary use will be trackdays only; do not plan or have the time to race competitively. Essentially looking to have some fun, maybe 8-10 trackdays a year.

You're here in the Bay Area, so you are in luck for open wheel track days. Sonoma Raceway welcomes open wheel cars at their frequent track days, alternating open wheel/sports racers with closed wheel cars for hot lapping sessions of about 25 minutes each (I forget the specifics). Show up and you will share the track with everything from Formula Vees to old Formula One cars, Can-Am cars, BSRs, etc.

Kevin Mitz (active here or contact me offline for his number) has a Stohr F1000 in Sunnyvale for sale with a Hayabusa in it...near F1 performance for the price of a modest used F1000.

[mousecatcher]

Plus you could bring it to regular closed wheel track days.

Which, even if you can do it, is a waste of time.

The cars are too low and closing speeds too fast relative to the sedans that you are on track with. So you have to spend all your time patiently waiting for the right places to pass. And you will catch multiple cars per lap.

Given the many test days available here it's a no brainer to just use those days.

[mousecatcher]

Sonoma Raceway welcomes open wheel cars at their frequent track days, alternating open wheel/sports racers with closed wheel cars for hot lapping sessions of about 25 minutes each (I forget the specifics).

That's only on pre-race weekends. Their normal test days that are interspersed throughout each month are open sessions all day.

[Stan Clayton]

That's only on pre-race weekends. Their normal test days that are interspersed throughout each month are open sessions all day.

Thanks...the point being they have lots of open test days.

[Spengo]

Which, even if you can do it, is a waste of time.

The cars are too low and closing speeds too fast relative to the sedans that you are on track with. So you have to spend all your time patiently waiting for the right places to pass. And you will catch multiple cars per lap.

Given the many test days available here it's a no brainer to just use those days.

I agree, but that's what he says he wants lol. Hopefully the addiction and desire for more will kick in and he'll start taking it to the local club races and getting some wheel-to-wheel action with cars closer in performance.

There are some out-of-the-way tracks that let you join as a member and have inexpensive member-only track days during the week where there is very little (if any) traffic to deal with. ORP is one such track in my area that has this, maybe OP has a similar deal in his area.

[stephen wilson]

its just a car

i think he should do it

Sure, Formula 1 is "just a car", I think he should start there.