Need info on FV engine

[rdfrancis]

I bought a FV motor and trying to figure out who the builder is. It has all the good stuff like 1600 dual oil case, full flow fittings, 373 heads with polished ports and lightened rockers, lightened flywheel etc. The only markings are on the front of the block and it has a stamp that says Z104k. The 4 is turned sideways. I have attached a photo. Anyone have any idea who the builder is? The normal vw engine codes are not there and it looks like they never were so it may be a new case.It also has a stamp that says 10 69. Maybe the engine was originally built October 1969?

[rdfrancis]

More photos of the motor.

[sracing]

I would be a little surprised if it were completely built by one of the FV professional builders. The rocker arms appear to be stock with no lightening on them. The flywheel may have been lightened, but not at all on the outside edges (near teeth) where it makes the most difference. It also has what appear to be stock retainers on the valves. These are usually NOT used by builders. It might be a great well built engine, but some things have certainly been left to be done for performance and reliability.

[Hardingfv32]

Any builder markings on the engine are irrelevant unless you have a reliable known history for the engine. One rebuild by an amateur and you just have a assembled collection of parts.

A marking on the heads will tell you who once prepped the heads but that really means nothing. A lot of poor performing heads are sold by engine builders. There are a lot of good heads ruined amateur head servicing.

Until track or dyno tested... you really just have a assemble collection parts.

Brian

[rdfrancis]

The heads are just numbered 157 and 158 on the flat boss next to the intake port.

[budawe]

Brian hit the nail on the head. I'd suggest a visit to a known engine builder for an inspection and possible dyno run.

[rdfrancis]

Good advice. Thanks

[Steve Davis]

I also noticed that it does NOT have the VW wavy washers in the valve train. That would presumably mean that it was built in the last 15 years or so. It also has the later version cylinder fins.

If you have no history, it should really be opened up before putting it on the track anyway. Who knows what the cylinders look like without that?

[rdfrancis]

I think Rollin Butler is the closest builder. I'll give him a call.

The flywheel looks like every other 12 or 13 pound lightened one I have seen. The case-side of the flywheel has been machined down to where the pressure plate bolts come thru. Where else does it get lightened?
Thanks.

[sracing]

The flywheel looks like every other 12 or 13 pound lightened one I have seen. The case-side of the flywheel has been machined down to where the pressure plate bolts come thru. Where else does it get lightened?
Thanks.

Getting a flywheel down to 12 lbs can be done most anywhere. However, you are trying to lower inertia. The farther out on the radius you can get it, the better. Taking the mass out near the center doesn't help much at all. Most good flywheels have the metal removed all the way from the ring gear teeth in. In the photo, I couldn't see that.

[rdfrancis]

It's the angle of the photo. The machined part starts at the teeth and goes down to the pressure plate bolts. Just hard to see from photo.

[DLRacing]

What I do in this situation, get it on a dyno and base line the motor. (Oil pressure, hp curve, and toque curve.) Guessing now eliminated. Numbers on the block, visual appearance of porting, flywheel cut, bla bla bla are not relevant as you really don't know who last built the motor, what is in it, and performance level. All that counts are the dyno numbers and everything is and improvement from there. Regardless of who built it personal preference is always tear it down, inspect, then assemble. Mistakes are sometimes found. Quick tip, cylinder leak down the engine between every race and track the results. Helps to monitor engine wear where the ponies are made. Measure cam lift at season end to see if a lobe is going down. A dial indicator will show a problem long before you can feel it.

[problemchild]

Why waste your resources (time & money) on a dynotest for a barn find engine?

Put your resources into rebuilding it. If your builder takes it apart and its junk, then you can part it out and try and cover your costs to that point.

[Mark_Silverberg]

I have also seen FV engines which have been pulled out of storage for many years and run quite well and reliably. - nothing wrong with trying as long as you are realistic about the risks.

[problemchild]

I have also seen FV engines which have been pulled out of storage for many years and run quite well and reliably. - nothing wrong with trying as long as you are realistic about the risks.

It costs the cheapest racer a minimum of a thousand dollars to do a race weekend. So why would you risk that money, plus the value of the core parts, plus your time, to find out if the engine is going to fail. The engine may be basically good but have a few minor issues from sitting that could prove catastrophic.
Sorry Mark, but I think that is very bad advice.

[Mark_Silverberg]

It would be a waste for an experienced driver who will be fully using the motor to pull something off the shelf unknown and go run it full bore.

For an inexperienced driver or some one running vintage with a Fan and generator the RPM's will be less and the demands on the motor will be less.

Probably should run an autocross or a track day with the engine / car before a drivers school or race anyway. Chassis dyno time is not exceedinly expensive either.

I do agree with you -that the prudent thing would be to have the engine gone over. But it is not manditory.

[HayesCages]

I'd pull it apart anyway. No dyno run, don't waste your money. It's going to need at least some amount of work no matter what and if you blow it up the first time out it will all be for nothing.
Looking at the valve train as well and noticed the shafts still have the hair pin retainers that like to pop off and go down the push rod tubes...

Good luck with your engine!

[Zink Cars]

Your engine originally was built by Jimmy Keck. At that time, he was employed by Ed Zink the owner of Zink Cars in Knoxville, Tennessee. It was built for Bill Campbell of Cantonment, Florida. Bill was a back to back National FV Champion. I spoke with Mr. Keck this evening and he provided this information.

What is the status of this engine at this time?

[rdfrancis]

That is a lot of history! Glad you were able to find it. I have mounted the motor in my Zeitler. I have not done anything to it but put it in the car. You can see photos at my Zeitler Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/zeitlerformulavee/

Thanks for the info. I thought there was a chance it could be one of John Zeitlers motors. I didn't think about the other Z-Formula Vee builder (Zink).

www.zeitlerformularacing.com

[rdfrancis]

Just checked out your Zink Facebook page. Didn't realize you were a Zink family member. No wonder you found the info. Not sure what I will do with the motor I have 2 Zeitler frames I am restoring. One was going to be run in Vintage and the other for Autocross. I already have someone interested in buying the one I am restoring now (the Vintage car). I didn't even have it for sale and started getting emails about it. I can't race anymore but I can autocross. Maybe this motor belongs in a Zink.

BTW. My family is from Johnson City/Jonesborough.


www.zeitlerformularacing.com