Used bodywork restoration

[wannabe]

Here's the deal...from somebody who's 57 and has done fiberglass work since he was 14...If the pieces are small like the ones your trying to repair, buy new ones, scuff them up, prime with three coats of urethane primer, wet sand with a block and 400 sand paper and spray SINGLE STAGE paint. do not use a color coat base coat on a racecar...waste of time and money and much more difficult to repair.

If you want to waste hours and hours of time working on the used ones, sand the paint down to the primer with 120 grit orbital sander, prime 3 coats with a high build urethane primer, hand block sand starting with 320, then 400, then 600 (all wet) and paint. that process will give you a show car finish.

to repair holes, grind down the outside and inside with 80 grit on an orbital sander. Put glass cloth on the inside and outside in one application, let dry and orbital sand smooth. do another application if needed for strength. fill in the indentation with more glass and resin if your going to drill another hole for a fastener. Yes the harbor freight thingies are good for holes.

To repair spider webbing you must grind the glass down until the spidering is gone. If not it will come right back. If its too deep you'll need to grind down till paper thin and rebuild with matting and resin. You're essentially replacing the stressed glass.

Painters of race cars have a saying...just paint it "racecar ready", cause you will drive yourself crazy with every nick and scratch you get and its just not worth worrying about.
Paint jobs don't win races...

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Paint jobs don't win races...

WHAT ?!?!?!

[TimH]

They do please sponsors (if you have them).

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

I had my first tries at the simpler fixes tonight. I sanded around the holes to try and make that V cut recommended by BillH. The bodywork is fairly thin and it was tough getting any sort of V.

Regardless, I applied tape on the outside of the holes (these are the white holes in the pics), mixed small strands with resin, applied it on the the inside (filling the holes first). Then applied 2 layers of fiber mat.

The first try was a bit thick, because I think I had too much resin (IMG_7443).

By the 4th hole I think it looked better, I think (IMG_7446). I used the handle of the cheap brush I used to push more of the mat into the holes.

JS

[phantomjock]

You've been getting lots of advice some good and some to sift through I'm sure.

Rather than share mine (I built my first sailboat in 1964 and started fiberglass car work a few years later, and Corvettes since 1978), I'll offer the link to the undisputed experts in epoxy, the Gougeon Brothers. There are guides you can download at the link, and I can guarantee they can help you through all steps and process you'd ever care to know. The vacuum bagging pub has been sold (in marine stores) for 15 bucks as I recall --but free at the link! (BTW - I think they are available in French too.)

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

Most of the techniques are directly transferable to polyester and vinyl-ester resins as well. The reinforcement and much of the discussion may get you a well built boat - so use some of the information with that "weight" in mind.

Cheers - and remember - you're "itching for fun!"

Cheers - Jim

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

Hi:

Thanks for sharing this useful information.

For the past couple of nights I have been patching areas of bigger and bigger surface. I think I am starting to getting into it.

Like you said a lot of advice was provided, and now it is a matter or getting at it and trying to make the best of it. In the original post I made it clear I am not looking for a showroom type finish, I just need to have a functional and ok looking bodywork.


JS

You've been getting lots of advice some good and some to sift through I'm sure.

Rather than share mine (I built my first sailboat in 1964 and started fiberglass car work a few years later, and Corvettes since 1978), I'll offer the link to the undisputed experts in epoxy, the Gougeon Brothers. There are guides you can download at the link, and I can guarantee they can help you through all steps and process you'd ever care to know. The vacuum bagging pub has been sold (in marine stores) for 15 bucks as I recall --but free at the link! (BTW - I think they are available in French too.)

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

Most of the techniques are directly transferable to polyester and vinyl-ester resins as well. The reinforcement and much of the discussion may get you a well built boat - so use some of the information with that "weight" in mind.

Cheers - and remember - you're "itching for fun!"

Cheers - Jim

[dc]

Citristrip is great, I have a gallon jug in the garage and use it a lot. I have stripped 70-year old paint off of a bench vise and I have even used it on wood rifle stocks with great success. The biodegradable part and smell is a BIG factor in being able to use it safely in my garage. I have two little kids, so I am very careful of the kind of chemicals I need to use in my projects.

It's not nearly as aggressive as Aircraft Stripper or other toxics, but it does work and it works well.

[Rondo]

Steve - what type of plastic do you use to sandwhich the layup. I used what I think was polyethylene along with polyester resin and it dissolved. Thanks as this is a great idea

A couple recommendations. You can use paint stripper, if you are very careful. Apply in a small area and scrape the paint off as soon as possible. Then neutralize the stripper to stop further action. I would only try to strip the top layer of paint. Then sand to the fiberglass surface. The paint stripper will go after the glass if you are not careful.

Next you have some patching to do. I would clean and sand the interior surfaces you need to repair. Do small sections that you can support as close to the finished shape as possible. Something like a square foot or so, at a time. I would do 2 or 3 inches around all the edges and any other places that need to be repaired. In places where you have fasteners or high stresses, I would add a layer of Kevlar to my layup.

I prepare my patches by laying down some plastic sheeting on a flat table. I wet the surface of the plastic with resin, and work the glass into the resin with a squeegee. I add how ever many layers of glass cloth I want for the patch. I then cover the layup with another layer of plastic and squeegee the excess resin out of the glass to the sides of the layup. Work this process until the patch is just the thickens of the layers of glass in the patch. I like to use epoxy resin for this type of repair. Boat resin from the local Lowes or Home Depot seems to be flexible when it is fully cured.

I can then cut the patch size I want for the repair section. You can do the layup one day and store it in the fridge until you are ready to do the layup. This may seem like a time consuming process but I have found it actually saves time and the finished product is way better than you can do laying up the glass over the repair spot.

I wet the repair section of the body using the minimum resin I can and get full coverage. Next I remove the plastic from one side of the patch, place the patch over the repair section and squeegee the patch on the repair. I can then wipe any excess resin off the body before I remove the plastic covering the patch.

I used this system to repair the engine cowl on a Piper Arrow. That was as close to being scrapped as it could be. The previous repairs were useless and only added weight. It took 90 hours to do the job (most of it spent removing old repairs) but I ended up with a good part that weighed close to an original part, and it fit properly.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Here's a video using a process like Steve's...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE3A_KAtbPQ

[S Lathrop]

I use stuff I got at Lowes or Home Depot. It is painter's drop cloth. It holds up well to the pressure and chemicals used.

I do use epoxy resins.

[BLS]

As I recall, polyester resin will dissolve plastic and foams.

Epoxy resin will not.

[Steve Demeter]

And as I recall if another repair is needed nothing will stick to polyester very well when compared to epoxy.

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

A quick update, I haven't painted the bodywork just yet, I have been busy working on the car as parts came available.

I would like to mention 2 Apexspeed members that have provided outstanding contributions to this bodywork restoration by sending parts FOC:
- Stevan Davis who sent beam fairings. I was originally planning on building a nose, and Stevan offered to send beam fairings to simplify the process. I might not use them right away (since I am running out of time, and got a drop in replacement nose) and,
- James Phoenix, who sent a Lynx B nose, in excellent condition.

Thank you to you both, this is outstanding, very generous and greatly appreciated.

JS

[alangbaker]

A quick update, I haven't painted the bodywork just yet, I have been busy working on the car as parts came available.

I would like to mention 2 Apexspeed members that have provided outstanding contributions to this bodywork restoration by sending parts FOC:
- Stevan Davis who sent beam fairings. I was originally planning on building a nose, and Stevan offered to send beam fairings to simplify the process. I might not use them right away (since I am running out of time, and got a drop in replacement nose) and,
- James Phoenix, who sent a Lynx B nose, in excellent condition.

Thank you to you both, this is outstanding, very generous and greatly appreciated.

Cool! But... ...what's a "beam fairing"?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Cool! But... ...what's a "beam fairing"?

They cover the VW front beam to a better aero profile.....

Basically giving a pointy front edge....

[alangbaker]

They cover the VW front beam to a better aero profile.....

Basically giving a pointy front edge....

Riiiiiight.

Sorry. I forgot what class we were talking about in this thread.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I'm not sure I like this thread.
Having never worked fiberglass before its making me feel brave....

[Steve Davis]

I'm not sure I like this thread.
Having never worked fiberglass before its making me feel brave....

Don't worry ... you'll get over it --- QUICKLY!!

[PaulT]

I prepare my patches by laying down some plastic sheeting on a flat table. I wet the surface of the plastic with resin, and work the glass into the resin with a squeegee. I add how ever many layers of glass cloth I want for the patch. I then cover the layup with another layer of plastic and squeegee the excess resin out of the glass to the sides of the layup. Work this process until the patch is just the thickens of the layers of glass in the patch.

When using this method is there a preferred fiberglass cloth?

Thanks,
Paul

[S Lathrop]

When using this method is there a preferred fiberglass cloth?

Thanks,
Paul

I use a very fine weave cloth. I have been using West System epoxy resin. I get my supplies from http://www.avtcomposites.com/cgi-bin...i?display=home

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

We finally have decent weather up here and this week end I am priming the parts. I started on a small scoop, I just sprayed the first coat of primer filler (Home Depot tremclad/rustoleum).

I sanded the scoop down to gel coat, cleaned it up with acetone and used a swiffer static wipe to get rid of the last bit of dust.
While most of the spray is good, those 2 bubbles popped up right away (see pic). I'd hate to have that on the bodywork. What's happening there, I thought acetone would get rid of anything? I guess I can just sand that area and try again?
I'm not so included to use acre one again since it seems it dissolved the primer.

Is this some sort of silicone contaminated area that can only be cleaned mechanically by sanding?

JS

[R. Pare]

Looks like the primer reacted with whatever was under it - if it went over a really thin bit of gelcoat that was covering up a void, I can see that sort of bubbling happening.

I also would not use acetone or even MEK to wipe dust off of gelcoat - they can dissolve the gelcoat and leave streaks. just wash with water and wipe softly with a tack rag.

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

Thanks for the reply.

Well oups...

Turns out the bubble was in fact left over body filler... I sanded it and everything looks terrific after coat of primer #2. I recall an advice earlier to spray 3 coats. One more sanding and one more coat to go for the scoop.

By the way what is the window of the tremclad/rustoleum primer, for final painting? I'd like to try and avoid extensive sanding of the bodywork since it's quite a bit of surface.
I couldn't find the info on the rattle can.

JS

Looks like the primer reacted with whatever was under it - if it went over a really thin bit of gelcoat that was covering up a void, I can see that sort of bubbling happening.

I also would not use acetone or even MEK to wipe dust off of gelcoat - they can dissolve the gelcoat and leave streaks. just wash with water and wipe softly with a tack rag.

[R. Pare]

No idea on that particular primer, since I've never used it.

However, most/all primers that I know of and have ever used did not have any set time after drying that you had to spray the color coat - all could go months if necessary.

Just do a final wet sanding w/600 grit, wash, and tack rag before spraying the final color.

[BillH]

You've been getting lots of advice some good and some to sift through I'm sure.

Rather than share mine (I built my first sailboat in 1964 and started fiberglass car work a few years later, and Corvettes since 1978),
Cheers - Jim

Race cars are easy.

Corvettes that the 1970's body shops screw up are not.

[BLS]

Jean, for what it's worth, the rustoleum* primer also does not give a recoat time other than time between coats and topcoat anytime. I've used it for several parts and not had much trouble. Except on some bodywork. I painted the V with rustoleum primer and then gloss black. It looked pretty decent but after the first weekend, in lots of small spots the primer and paint seemed to flake off. I suspect I had some contamination, or I may have picked up the self etching primer for metal and sprayed it by accident. I was never sure why it did what it did, and only in a few area's.

*I do know the Tremclad is the maple leaf version of rustoleum.

[Jerry B.]

JS

Your spending a lot of your time, don't scrimp on the finishing. After sanding and glass work, clean before priming with PPG Acryli-clean DX330. It will remove any wax or oils that remained on the parts. Use white rags till they wont come dirty. Then use a tack cloth.
Then one wet coat of primer (I like to use Urethane two part primer) and while the primer is wet, note any bad spots, let dry and then 400 wet sand. Go back and redo any divots or scratches and then two more wet primer coats. Shoot 2 part or single, your choice..but drying time and better is 2 part, then 2 wet coats or follow instructions.

You might look up a local paint and body supply house for consumables...as to paint they might have "mixed wrong" colors that would work for you.

I would suggest no rattle cans, but a cheapie HVLP gun. Harbor Freight has one that is decent p/n 69705 and has a regulator.....$30.

Protection from fiberglass and paint .....good respirator and cheep paper/Tyvec full suit.
Have fun.

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

Thanks for the reply.

Hopefully it won't flake. One of my competitors recently painted his fv with the same primer and it seems to hold.

JS

Jean, for what it's worth, the rustoleum* primer also does not give a recoat time other than time between coats and topcoat anytime. I've used it for several parts and not had much trouble. Except on some bodywork. I painted the V with rustoleum primer and then gloss black. It looked pretty decent but after the first weekend, in lots of small spots the primer and paint seemed to flake off. I suspect I had some contamination, or I may have picked up the self etching primer for metal and sprayed it by accident. I was never sure why it did what it did, and only in a few area's.

*I do know the Tremclad is the maple leaf version of rustoleum.

[BillH]

JS

I would suggest no rattle cans, but a cheapie HVLP gun. Harbor Freight has one that is decent p/n 69705 and has a regulator.....$30.

Protection from fiberglass and paint .....good respirator and cheep paper/Tyvec full suit.
Have fun.

The HF gun is disappointing (to say the least).

Spend another $20 and get a decent gun, if you compare the nozzles, air delivery holes, etc. you'll see why.

This gun shoots really nice for what it is (cheap).
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/grav...n-p-16764.aspx

[BLS]

This gun shoots really nice for what it is (cheap).

That gun looks like the cheap harbor freight guns I bought. Might not be the same. I've bought several and the colors change sometimes. I've seen them on sale for around $10, but they are almost always available for $16. At that price they are throw aways, no need to waste time cleaning them. To be fair, I have very little experience. OTOH, until I screwed up, the gun sprayed pretty nicely when I did my body repaint recently. I screwed up on the third coat because I did clean the gun but didn't do it well and worse, didn't recognize the bad behavior early enough. That's what sandpaper is for...

I used it to spray 2 part epoxy primer on a lot of small parts and then 2 part urethane gloss black over that. Worked perfect.

[BillH]

That gun looks like the cheap harbor freight guns I bought. Might not be the same. I've bought several and the colors change sometimes. I've seen them on sale for around $10, but they are almost always available for $16. At that price they are throw aways, no need to waste time cleaning them. To be fair, I have very little experience. OTOH, until I screwed up, the gun sprayed pretty nicely when I did my body repaint recently. I screwed up on the third coat because I did clean the gun but didn't do it well and worse, didn't recognize the bad behavior early enough. That's what sandpaper is for...

I used it to spray 2 part epoxy primer on a lot of small parts and then 2 part urethane gloss black over that. Worked perfect.

Believe me, there's a big difference, you have to take the nozzle apart to see it.
The HF I bought a while back now resides in our landfill.

[BLS]

Believe me, there's a big difference...

I believe you. I just think the HF gun is usable and at the price a nice throwaway. YMMV

[Jerry B.]

"The HF gun is disappointing (to say the least)." (Bill)

I shudda recommended an Iwata.

Jean evidently is on a budget .....yes the HF gun is not the best......but for cheap I use it for cheap jobs and has a small cup and handy. I was amazed when I bought it for a one time HVLP job about 4 years ago and I still use it from time to time usually for priming. Maybe I got a "good" one...I even used it for a small clear coat job and the results were good.

[Steve Demeter]

The success of using any spray gun cheap crappy or good is highly operator dependent.

I could not make one work to save my life. But that is cause I do not have much operator good stuff.

I have seen people work magic with the cheapest ones you could find.

[G.Rossman]

Did you get the entire car into the basement? Low fumes sounds helpful. Just looking at the pictures you posted I couldn't tell of those windows in the back were from a garage or basement.

I had damage much like what you are showing. I was able to fix all of it.
I had only fiberglass once or twice before I did my bodywork and both times they were really light repairs. I heavily considered bringing it to someone else and paying for it but then I remembered its a cheap race car...
Anyway I went down to the autoparts store and bought a bondo fiberglass kit and a tube of bondo's 'glaze' for really light stuff and just sanded back my jagged edges and cracks and repaired or filled in with bondo. I watched a few youtube videos to teach myself.
For paint this is what I did
http://www.rickwrench.com/index79mas...llarpaint.html

Roll on paint job! Great for working in your basement way less fumes. You'll remember what you started doing when you get done.
It won't be the best looking car at the track but its a bit better off.
Before

After


I really did not spend a lot of time on this it could have been much better.

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

I thought I'd post a picture of the car as it stands after sanding/fixing/patching/painting.

It is nothing special, just white with accessories painted in flat black. It's a 50/50 paint job, it looks good at speed. Still need to upgrade the electrical tape numbers and class designation. I guess I have been too cheap to get decals made

I'd like to thank all the members who provided advice. This has been greatly appreciated.
Thank you Stevan for the beam fairings. I went with a wide nose and unfortunately I won't be using the fairing just for this project. I am sure I will find utility for them though.
Thank you Jim Phoenix, the paint job on the (free) nose you sent was beautiful. I feel sorry I had to sand it and paint it white.

And I hope I never have to do bodywork stuff again. It's a lot of time, a lot of itching and there's probably much better things I need to be doing.

JS