Arm Restraint Position

[crypt0zink]

I was on the false grid for a FV feature race and told my arm restraints need to be below the elbow. I've worn them both below and above the elbow, but above the elbow seems to be the correct location and what I've used for years.

What's the manufacturer suggest for arm restraint position? and what do you use?

[TimH]

I've seen manufacturer diagrams showing above. I prefer below.

[sracing]

Above the elbow about the only thing they will provide is that they will be able find your arms after a serious rollover. Below the elbow, they keep your arms in the car where they belong.

[DaveW]

The two positions both have advantages and disadvantages.

Above the elbow: easier to signal, less restriction to motion in the car, arm can extend out of the car further, therefore more chance of getting hurt in a wreck.

Below the elbow: opposite of above.

I wear mine above the elbow.

[crypt0zink]

Above the elbow about the only thing they will provide is that they will be able find your arms after a serious rollover. Below the elbow, they keep your arms in the car where they belong.

Any tips on how to keep the restraints "Below the elbow" from moving onto my wrists when shifting?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Stich them to your suit......
or add Velcro loops to hold them in place.

[Keith Carter]

I've seen diagrams from specific manufacturers showing below the elbow, but I believe that the primary intent was for sprint car drivers where there is a possibility of the arm going laterally outside the car as well as above the roll cage and getting crushed. No shifting, no signaling, etc... in a sprint car. For a formula race car need, above the elbow is valid as well since there's shifting, signaling, etc.. I use mine above the elbow and test once I'm in the car to make sure that I can't touch the top of my helmet, but can touch everything else inside the cockpit. In the case of a rollover, my arms wouldn't be anywhere outside the car.

[sccadsr31]

Here is my solution to the problem.
The Pyrotech are no longer made and Safequip custom made these for me.
David

[marshall9]

Here is my solution to the problem.
The Pyrotech are no longer made and Safequip custom made these for me.
David

No way !

[marshall9]

I prefer sewn into the suit above the elbow. When I am in the car, I can't move my elbows side to side anyway, but need everything from them down to drive the car. Still can thank someone for a point by, or give one ... Also, I can reach a shield tear off.

[Daryl DeArman]

In my opinion it is pretty dependent on driving position as to the preferred method. Sitting up straight vs. almost completely laying down. Steering wheel vertical vs steering wheel horizontal.

I'd also prefer D-rings securely sewn into my suit just below the elbow.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Here's one vendors picture:
http://www.autopowerindustries.com/ArmRestraints.aspx

Here's an other thread:
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5751

It's a little unsettling that:
1. Vendors don't seem to provide instructions on wearing these.
2. There is such a difference of opinion on where they should be on the arm.

I'm new to using them. I have experienced some interference (missed a shift because of it). And had another driver tell me I had them too long - which I did.
The interference is simply because I had not properly adjusted them and cut off the extra foot of strap.

I have been wearing them on my forearms. Nothing else makes sense to me.
I can't see how they can have any benefit on the bicep. They'll just hold your elbows in position while forces shred your elbows as your forearms fling about.

I never intend to test them...

[Brian]

Ever notice that "senior" series don't use arm restraints? Maybe because they don't actually work? I have never felt that arm restraints were a valid solution to the problem of keeping arms inside the cockpit. All you have to do is stand at pit in and watch every driver stick their arm in the air to signal they are pitting. If you can use your arms to signal other drivers at all, your arm restraints don't work. If you can raise your hand and arm out of the cockpit by muscle power, they will certainly get out there under the force of 10 G's of impact.

If you wear them as close to your wrist as possible, then you may be wearing them such that they might do something for you. If you wear them at your elbow, either above or just below, then you are wearing them to comply with a silly rule and not to gain any aspect of improved safety. If you wear them loose enough that you can slide them on and off without loosening, they will come off in a crash. If you can signal other drivers by sticking your arm out of the cockpit, your arm will come out of the cockpit in a crash.

Brian

[crypt0zink]

It's a little unsettling that:
1. Vendors don't seem to provide instructions on wearing these.
2. There is such a difference of opinion on where they should be on the arm.

Agreed, the manufacturers and vendors don't have any instructions or recommendations for arm restraints. I'm going to contact a couple manufacturers and see if I can get a clear answer.

The Autopower diagram is interesting, but I see a potential issue with hooking/snagging my wrist strap around the shifter in a tight formula car cockpit.

[scorp997]

http://crowenterprizes.com/Pages/Install.html

[crypt0zink]

http://crowenterprizes.com/Pages/Install.html

Good find!

• Instructions for Arm Restraints: Part number 11572-11574
1.) Arm Restraints are to be worn on the biceps of the arms.
2.) Attach around bicep with D-rings and tighten until the fit is snug.
3.) Adjust length of tether so wrist will not go outside of the cage area.
4.) Arm Restraint with the SFI tag MUST be worn on the left bicep.
Arm Restraint with the warning tag MUST be worn on the right bicep.
5.) Make sure the arm restraint doesn't interfere with the steering wheel or any other equipment.

• Instructions for Wrist Restraints: Part number 11662-11667


1.) Wrist Restraints are to be worn on both wrists by the driver and all passengers in the vehicle.
These restraints are not for competition use.
2.) Attach around wrists and adjust velcrow so it is snug.
3.) Loop end of teather on seat belt link side, (left side of seat belt). Adjust length of teather so your wrists will not go outside of the cage area. Make sure the wrist restraint does not interfere with the steering wheel or any other equipment.

[Albatross]

I wear my arm restraints just above the elbow. That permits me to reach my master switch, point and make sure that my shoulder strap(s) are remaining in the HANS groove when final tightening of the strap(s) has been accomplished. Obviously, like most schools of thought-opinions vary. When I saw my only Formula I race in person at the Glen, circa 1960, seat belts were optional. Being thrown from the race car was thought to be safer than remaining in the car in case of accident ~ fire. AlSO, it's harder to receive and display the checker flag for the winner's cool-off lap if the straps are below the elbow.

[Clyde]

I think Brian's correct in that the "Senior" series do NOT use arm restraints. The Crow instructions state that the wrist restraints are NOT for competition use! It is impossible to make racing "Safe". I have always felt that safety is up to the driver; whatever makes the driver comfortable and feel safe. If you cannot signal the driver behind you that you are lifting or pitting, they may crash into the back of you, then as you are rolling over; you are thinking; "I am glad my arms will stay in the racecar". The way I see it is that the arm restraints caused two racecars to wreck, the track session to be shortened and many people praising the use of the safety of arm restraints!

[Daryl DeArman]

I have been wearing them on my forearms. Nothing else makes sense to me.
I can't see how they can have any benefit on the bicep. They'll just hold your elbows in position while forces shred your elbows as your forearms fling about.

I never intend to test them...

While I agree with never intending to test them...

My primary concern with wearing them below my elbow is that I can pull my arm out of a tightened arm restraint without a ton of effort. If I can do that, then a pretty violent crash can certainly do that. Thus my desire to have the D-rings sewn into my suit.

Sprint cars, Midgets, WoO cars all spend significantly more time flipping around in the air than we do. They all are instructed to wear theirs above the elbow. However, they're sitting completely upright with an almost horizontal (like driving a bus) steering wheel. Having them on your forearms wouldn't work.

Whatever part of your arm you chose to restrain, the remaining part is free to flail around in a violent wreck possibly wreaking havoc on the joint between the two points.

Ever notice that "senior" series don't use arm restraints? Maybe because they don't actually work? I have never felt that arm restraints were a valid solution to the problem of keeping arms inside the cockpit. All you have to do is stand at pit in and watch every driver stick their arm in the air to signal they are pitting. If you can use your arms to signal other drivers at all, your arm restraints don't work. If you can raise your hand and arm out of the cockpit by muscle power, they will certainly get out there under the force of 10 G's of impact.

Every sprint car, midget and WoO driver wears them. NHRA big dogs, too. They flip a whole lot more than others with a whole lot more places for their arms to escape.

Look at a F1 car and how tight the cockpit surround is, how high the main and dash hoops are relative to their helmet vs most SCCA broom stick tests. They likely have determined they don't need arm restraints.

As to the arm in the air to signal? Maybe a hand, but that's it. I'd rather lose some fingers than an arm (given the choice).

[ianashdown]

I don't believe any racing series in Europe uses Arm Restraints, I certainly can't recal seeing any.

I'd be interested to see if any data exists that can document arm injuries in roll-over accidents by type of vehicle.

Ian

[glenn cooper]

Friggin' things are worthless, and so obviously a legal type deal/requirement as to make me semi-nauseous...

[sccadsr31]

Marshell9, why "no way"?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Okay - question for those concerned about signaling etc.

In a tin top, how do you hand signal when there is a window net ?

Or are hand signals going "out the window" because of safety changes....

[SCOTTY81]

I grew up in the sprint car world. If you wear them above your elbows and the crash is violent enough it will dislocate your elbows . Then your arms will just flap in the breeze.

[fitfan]

as a newbie... I've been curious here as well.

my understanding is you if you stitch to your suit, you need to stitch the entire strap. not just tab the d ring into the suit. thats the only way to prevent the D ring from simply tearing itself out of the suit. the only thing stitching does is place the strap stitching doesn't restrain your arm... you need to tighten the strap. thoughts?

I've tried them both above or below the elbow without being stitched in, and like others - they just slide off to my wrist, and once... came loose, when they slide off there is no tension to the keep the d ring 'over/under' strap tight. so now i wear them over my elbow, and tighten the length down so my elbows are well inside the cockpit. i can reach my visor, but can't touch the top of my helmet kinda thing. i can point my hand out the cockpit, but only from about the wrist and up.

after seeing a car do a 360 in the air, and the bruising to the drivers hands (was wearing arm restraints) - id never drive a FF / open cockpit without them.... and i know of an incident where a driver arm restraints did tear out, (i don't know how it was stitched or strapped) and the did almost lose an arm. so... for me, i want that strap all the way around my arm and tight.

F1 doesn't use them, but then again - the cockpit and safety design is completely different. I'm concerned with how do i make my 70-80's era car as safe as possible and eliminate loosing an arm. i know my car doesn't have a multimillion dollar safety cell design.....

so ill stitch the entire strap to my suit just below the elbow so they won't walk off my arm, in the meantime, i wear then 'just' over my elbow. crank the strap tight on my arm, and crank the length down so my forearm can only 1/2 way extend out of the cockpit.

both the vintage groups here - SVRA / Vara are pretty good about checking that in hot pit, and they often have rescue walk hot pit and check everyone over and get familiar with each car and drivers safety gear. i like that!

[budawe]

Arm restraints became popular with the advent of roll cages in dirt oval racing. The issue was preventing arm injury by not allowing the arm to be trapped between the cage and the ground. Window nets do the same thing for closed cars. Roll bar cars are slightly different issue but worth wearing some restraints.

I occasionally have to remind pre grid folks that they are not scrutineers. If they have an tech issue they should inform a licensed scrutineer. There are no instructions regarding are restraints in the GCR except to retain the ability to signal, so there is no basis for inspection or rejection of installation.

As mentioned, if the restraint is tight enough to prevent egress of the arms, it's likely to cause other issues driving. My seating is reclined in my car and if the restraints are short enough to prevent any arm egress, I can't shift to 4th.

It's really up to each driver to decide what's best for their situation. If you have a tight enough cockpit to prevent arms from getting out, it's likely you won't be able to get out if the car is upside down as well so there's no perfect answer.

I prefer sewn on straps with a d ring since my restraints tend to slide down my arm. I split the distance to help hold my arms and still let me drive.

[marshall9]

Marshell9, why "no way"?

I see them getting tangled easily, possibly causing a crash.

[Daryl DeArman]

I grew up in the sprint car world. If you wear them above your elbows and the crash is violent enough it will dislocate your elbows . Then your arms will just flap in the breeze.

Interesting. I spent a bit of time in the roundy round dirt tracks too. I was always instructed to wear them above the elbows. The USAC rule book currently doesn't specify location.

The NHRA rule book says must be worn so that no part of the hands and/or arms may extend outside the plane described by the cage and frame rails. Refer to manufacturer for instructions.


That's the legal stuff that makes Coop sick.

[fitfan]

I see them getting tangled easily, possibly causing a crash.

i see them not doing anything because the d ring tab will either tear out, or the hand will just come out of the glove.

id want a strap 360deg around., and stitch the strap into a location. glove and suit material doesn't seem anything close to "restraint webbing" strong....

[BeerBudgetRacing]

i see them not doing anything because the d ring tab will either tear out, or the hand will just come out of the glove.

id want a strap 360deg around., and stitch the strap into a location. glove and suit material doesn't seem anything close to "restraint webbing" strong....

100% agree. Once I figure out how I like them I'm going to sew them to my suit, sew the straps in their positions and cut off the excess.

The one's I use have a loop at the belt and a clip that attaches the strap to the arm band. Easy to disconnect if needed....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gf...dubk/overview/

[Eric Cruz]

Friggin' things are worthless, and so obviously a legal type deal/requirement as to make me semi-nauseous...

Can't agree more. I have, quite unfortunately, "tested" them on three separate occasions. The first (VIR) was recorded both by in-car video and by a series of about 3 dozen hi-res photos taken by the track photographer standing outside the corner. They clearly show the car through its four rolls, and my hands and forearms never trying to leave the cockpit, with no restraining action from the arm restraints I wear just below my elbows. I guess I thought I was still in control and trying to drive through it And, no, the steering wheel didn't break my wrists or injure my hands as so many say it will.

My other two experiences (4 rolls and one roll) were not recorded in stills from outside, but my in-cockpit experience was very similar. Based on my own personal research (LOL), I don't see much use for them except for drivers that instinctively thrust their arms above their head for "protection" when they roll. That, and to annoy me on the grid when their presence is deemed so incredibly important that usually more than one grid worker feels it necessary to have me put my hands in the air.

Best regards,
Eric

[Brian]

That is the bit that used to really get me. You are there on the false grid and you have to hold your arms straight up in the air to show that you are wearing your arm restraints. "Hi there, just proving that I am wearing a useless piece of equipment that has been known to unlatch seatbelts and otherwise put me in danger, and obviously doesn't work because I can put my arms up in the air...Duh"

That is as bad as a club that allows closed top sedans and such to run with no window nets if they are wearing arm restraints. Window nets are there to keep your head inside the car in a roll over, not to keep your arms in. Invented by NASCAR after a driver was killed (as so often happens) by his head coming out and getting crushed between the car and a hard object like a wall or the ground.

[Modo]

Definately a safety sales person and insurance guy getting to scca headquarters back when, Daaaa, Sprint car guys are wearing them, it's safer, they need em', they have chop off bars ............................. had to scowl and wear them when I came back racing in 91, don't care at this point but to an old fart both the arm straps and the Hans are pain in the ass, don't feel any safer with these Gismos, the sport in a formula car is very dangerous to your legs, spine/back, and head (der koupf) ...... IMO

Never been hurt or bruised, hurt myself more around the tow trailer and equipment, LOL

[Roland V. Johnson]

Having had a customer crash head on into a concrete wall at my feet with an impact speed of 100 + MPH, I must respond. Without the HANS we are all certain that he would be dead. With it he survived with no neck or back problems. He did have massive bruises and a collapsed lung. The arm restraint "D" rings were sewed into his driver's suit below his elbow by the suit manufacturer. (not done very well) They kept his left arm from any harm, the right restraint tore from the suit. I will never forget the view of that arm flailing around. The resulting bone and nerve damage to his arm almost resulted in his loosing the use of it. I have my restraints sewed to my suite below the elbows so they will not slip down. I wear them pretty short and never have a problem signaling anyone. Put on the belts properly they will not open the belts either. Do whatever you wish, but used properly the safety equipment works!

[jim morgan]

I wear mine loose around my wrists until the 1 minute warning. Then they go under my legs. Works well every time.

[glenn cooper]

That is the bit that used to really get me. You are there on the false grid and you have to hold your arms straight up in the air to show that you are wearing your arm restraints. "Hi there, just proving that I am wearing a useless piece of equipment that has been known to unlatch seatbelts and otherwise put me in danger, and obviously doesn't work because I can put my arms up in the air...Duh"

That is as bad as a club that allows closed top sedans and such to run with no window nets if they are wearing arm restraints. Window nets are there to keep your head inside the car in a roll over, not to keep your arms in. Invented by NASCAR after a driver was killed (as so often happens) by his head coming out and getting crushed between the car and a hard object like a wall or the ground.

Fireball Roberts

[a. pettipas]

Fireball Roberts

Joe Weatherly at Riverside; old Fireball died the way his name would suggest.

[EYERACE]

just do it your way and if someone on the grid says otherwise.......listen to them and comply with a smile........and suddenly the next thing you know you're out on track..........and then moving them where you want on the out lap.......like anyone at that point will notice....or call you in because

[Dave Welsh]

One can ask Darrell Gywnn about arm restraints.