Oil filter keeps blowing

[khatchik]

I solved the problem but I still don't understand why if both of the lines that I switched were pumping oil and the first way that I had hooked up wrong was causing the oil filter to blow when actually the motor was sounding dry like it wasn't getting oil to the lifters. If both ways were feeding oil to the oil filter and then in to the block then what would have made the oil filter keep blowing with not much pressure.

[khatchik]

Here is a picture of the plumbing and what I had wrong. I had the feed to engine switched with the oil cooler line, so when I had it switched I could feel the lifters were loud like they did not have oil pressure getting to them,but why was the oil filter blowing at that point and now when I have it hooked up proper way the engine sounds very normal pressure is at 80 which is actually higher than it was when it was hooked up the wrong way and no more problem with the filter, by the way the pressure gauge was also not correct.

[Brian]

The feed to the oil cooler is a scavenge section, which normally is larger than a pressure section and has no pressure relief. That means that if it was connected to the oil filter and then into the engine as long as it had a supply, which it would on a cold start with oil pooled in the bottom of the pan, it would spike to a very high pressure - big pump area and no pressure relief plus some cold oil. As soon as the engine started, all the oil would be scavenged out of the bottom of the pan and you would see no more oil flow into the engine, so the bearing etc would have no supply, or very poor foamy oil at best. Depending on how long it actually ran like that, you should be looking for new bearings, and maybe a couple of cams and cam followers. The engine was basically running with no oil pressure.

The pressure section would have just been circulating oil from the bottom of the tank back to the tank through the oil cooler, at no pressure. The pressure probably broke the gauge the first time it spiked. It could have been producing hundreds of pounds of pressure.

[DaveW]

The feed to the oil cooler is a scavenge section, which normally is larger than a pressure section and has no pressure relief. That means that if it was connected to the oil filter and then into the engine as long as it had a supply, which it would on a cold start with oil pooled in the bottom of the pan, it would spike to a very high pressure - big pump area and no pressure relief plus some cold oil. As soon as the engine started, all the oil would be scavenged out of the bottom of the pan and you would see no more oil flow into the engine, so the bearing etc would have no supply, or very poor foamy oil at best. Depending on how long it actually ran like that, you should be looking for new bearings, and maybe a couple of cams and cam followers. The engine was basically running with no oil pressure.

The pressure section would have just been circulating oil from the bottom of the tank back to the tank through the oil cooler, at no pressure. The pressure probably broke the gauge the first time it spiked. It could have been producing hundreds of pounds of pressure.

Since the oil pressure gauge and the filter were seeing this high pressure, I think the large pressure was also being put into the oil galleries, etc., meaning the engine was being lubricated. That should mean that the supply to the scavenge side was plumbed to the dry-sump tank, the output of the scavenge side to the oil filter and oil galleries, the supply to the normal pressure side was from the crankcase, etc., and everything, except the gauge and the blown-up filters should be OK.

If the oil pressure ever went to zero, and the scavenge (oil-cooler) side was plumbed from the crankcase to the oil filter, etc., then I would think your analysis is correct, that the cam and bearings could be toast.

So, if he had the oil-pump scavenge and pressure sections reversed (both supply and output), the engine should be OK. If it is as you (Brian) understand it, damage has probably been done.

[khatchik]

Since the oil pressure gauge and the filter were seeing this high pressure, I think the large pressure was also being put into the oil galleries, etc., meaning the engine was being lubricated. That should mean that the supply to the scavenge side was plumbed to the dry-sump tank, the output of the scavenge side to the oil filter and oil galleries, the supply to the normal pressure side was from the crankcase, etc., and everything, except the gauge and the blown-up filters should be OK.

If the oil pressure ever went to zero, and the scavenge (oil-cooler) side was plumbed from the crankcase to the oil filter, etc., then I would think your analysis is correct, that the cam and bearings could be toast.

So, if he had the oil-pump scavenge and pressure sections reversed (both supply and output), the engine should be OK. If it is as you (Brian) understand it, damage has probably been done.

The engine sounds normal now with no bearing noise or anything, however the scavenge side that was getting the oil supply from the crank case was actually hooked up to the oil filter pressure side that was only pumping oil at first start until drying up the crank case that is why the lifters were making noise. I am just wondering what damage happened to the engine since it was never driven and was only start up times of about 3 minuets maybe about 6 times. The oil pressure gauge was also malfunctioning showing me a high pressure.

[khatchik]

The feed to the oil cooler is a scavenge section, which normally is larger than a pressure section and has no pressure relief. That means that if it was connected to the oil filter and then into the engine as long as it had a supply, which it would on a cold start with oil pooled in the bottom of the pan, it would spike to a very high pressure - big pump area and no pressure relief plus some cold oil. As soon as the engine started, all the oil would be scavenged out of the bottom of the pan and you would see no more oil flow into the engine, so the bearing etc would have no supply, or very poor foamy oil at best. Depending on how long it actually ran like that, you should be looking for new bearings, and maybe a couple of cams and cam followers. The engine was basically running with no oil pressure.

The pressure section would have just been circulating oil from the bottom of the tank back to the tank through the oil cooler, at no pressure. The pressure probably broke the gauge the first time it spiked. It could have been producing hundreds of pounds of pressure.

I think that was exactly the case. But I am hoping the little oil and the low start up time actually did not damage the engine.

[Fred Michael]

I would be pulling the pan and cam cover to check bearings and cams.
Better to find out now than destroy the entire engine when you put a load on it.
My feeling is it IS damaged.

[Brian]

It's a BD and I have little experience of their cam and lifter arrangements, but they are probably splash lubricated. If they made noise, they ran dry so they may have scuffed the lifter bores or scuffed the cam lobes. If they scuffed the lifter bores the head may need to be resleeved, if you can even do that. They don't make a noise like collapsed hydraulic lifters, though. The bearings would have gotten a big shot of oil at first, then no oil, but they can actually last on residual oil for a few seconds, they create their own working oil pressure hydrostatically. It's easy enough to pull the cam cover off and look, same with the oil pan, and I would do that on such an expensive engine.

To be honest, I wonder where the oil came from that burst the filter, since there was nothing putting any oil in the engine at all. Any residual oil would have gotten scavenged out in the first couple of seconds of running.

Brian

[khatchik]

It's a BD and I have little experience of their cam and lifter arrangements, but they are probably splash lubricated. If they made noise, they ran dry so they may have scuffed the lifter bores or scuffed the cam lobes. If they scuffed the lifter bores the head may need to be resleeved, if you can even do that. They don't make a noise like collapsed hydraulic lifters, though. The bearings would have gotten a big shot of oil at first, then no oil, but they can actually last on residual oil for a few seconds, they create their own working oil pressure hydrostatically. It's easy enough to pull the cam cover off and look, same with the oil pan, and I would do that on such an expensive engine.

To be honest, I wonder where the oil came from that burst the filter, since there was nothing putting any oil in the engine at all. Any residual oil would have gotten scavenged out in the first couple of seconds of running.

Brian

When I first started the engine I added 4L in the tank and 2L directly in the engine so I had some oil in the engine.

[Fred Michael]

It's a BD and I have little experience of their cam and lifter arrangements, but they are probably splash lubricated. If they made noise, they ran dry so they may have scuffed the lifter bores or scuffed the cam lobes. If they scuffed the lifter bores the head may need to be resleeved, if you can even do that. They don't make a noise like collapsed hydraulic lifters, though. The bearings would have gotten a big shot of oil at first, then no oil, but they can actually last on residual oil for a few seconds, they create their own working oil pressure hydrostatically. It's easy enough to pull the cam cover off and look, same with the oil pan, and I would do that on such an expensive engine.

To be honest, I wonder where the oil came from that burst the filter, since there was nothing putting any oil in the engine at all. Any residual oil would have gotten scavenged out in the first couple of seconds of running.

Brian

It is a YB not a BD but still some good advise.

[DanW]

Recommend removing the drain plug and inspecting the screen for metal. If there is no screen, drain a small amount of oil on a sheet of white paper. Take the paper outdoors and look at the oil it in the sunlight. If you see no metal particles, you are ok. Metal particles mean damage.

Regards,
Dan

[DaveW]

Recommend removing the drain plug and inspecting the screen for metal. If there is no screen, drain a small amount of oil on a sheet of white paper. Take the paper outdoors and look at the oil it in the sunlight. If you see no metal particles, you are ok. Metal particles mean damage.

Regards,
Dan

Most of the time that is correct. However, IMO, you can score the cam, followers, or the follower bores and not have enough debris to see metal in the oil.

[khatchik]

So the engine is hydraulic lifters so it might be okay. I am going to check the oil see if I can see anything.

[DaveW]

Most of the time that is correct. However, IMO, you can score the cam, followers, or the follower bores and not have enough debris to see metal in the oil.

So the engine is hydraulic lifters so it might be okay. I am going to check the oil see if I can see anything.

Even with hydraulic lifters, you could still could still have cam lobe, follower, follower bore scoring. The presence of hydraulic lifters will not prevent that. The fact that they were noisy points to a lack of lubrication.

[Brian]

All the YB's I ever saw had been converted to solid lifters and were in sports racers so it totally never occurred to me that a turbo YB would probably still have the original hydraulic lifters.

Brian

[Revs2-12k]

RECALLING MY SUGGESTION TO USE K&N ABOVE.

I had a K&N K-138 fail at the spot welds holding the 17mm hex this weekend at Carolina Motorsports Park. Almost lunched an engine..Oil leaked thru the spot welds on the end of the filter, so will not be using. Obvious QC problem. I'm going back to stock SUZUKI filter w/a hose clamp to safety wire.

The K&N spot welds are additional points of failure and not worth the risk.