The Challenge Cup Set to Roll for 2015

[Mark Filip]

Even Though there is a rule not allowing the shaving of tires, can anyone really prove it? or is anyone really going to challenge it? We have to have some trust in each other as racers as well.

Since this is a "one" tire fits all, when it rains those 2-3 season old tires are not fun....So many drivers have a fresh set they have a spares they can use?

On the wheels, the F1200 have been using Diamond Racing wheels for Years, and never asked for sponsorship. If you have any Fast wheels you can use them as well. Diamond has always serviced our needs when we asked. they are also reasonably priced.

That's my point you can't prove it at least not to my knowledge which is why I asked the question. Will anyone challenge it? I doubt it. We have strict rules now on engines and people still show up and run 3 sec a lap faster the weekend after they rebuilt their engine in their garage. Trust is not so easy when everyone is trying to win, there will always be someone that will break it.

Fast guys will end up with a brand new set that is only used for wet and a shaved set that last 2 years not 5 like Greg said. Also like Greg said shaved is not proven to be faster yet on these tires but if 2 year old tires are faster just from wear i'm willing to bet they will be and the faster racers will buy them.

Don't get me wrong I think this formula with the tires, wheels and weight is a good thing.

I only mentioned aluminum wheels because it would be nice for the heavy people to have a option to get a little closer to min weight. If I need to buy wheels I would like to buy them once and if I had a chance to get a aluminum wheels that are lighter for a few hundred buck it's a no brainer.

[problemchild]

Taking 10 lbs of wheel weight out of a car will have a lot more effect than 10 lbs of ballast and would totally defeat the idea of spec wheels. Determining how much ballast a competitor would need to add to compensate for lighter wheels would require a complicated formula that would need to be different for different tracks. Seems like a complicated and unnecessary change to a proven concept that is 35 years old.

[derminator]

Nelson Ledges
Word on the NARRC Facebook is that Nelson has "Closed until further notification", and they are looking at the Glen.

Any status on this?

John

We will be announcing the new schedule in the coming days due to the situation at Nelson Ledges. Stay tuned.

[nbrigido]

We will be announcing the new schedule in the coming days due to the situation at Nelson Ledges. Stay tuned.

Little Birdies are flying......

[nbrigido]

That's my point you can't prove it at least not to my knowledge which is why I asked the question. Will anyone challenge it? I doubt it. We have strict rules now on engines and people still show up and run 3 sec a lap faster the weekend after they rebuilt their engine in their garage. Trust is not so easy when everyone is trying to win, there will always be someone that will break it.

Fast guys will end up with a brand new set that is only used for wet and a shaved set that last 2 years not 5 like Greg said. Also like Greg said shaved is not proven to be faster yet on these tires but if 2 year old tires are faster just from wear i'm willing to bet they will be and the faster racers will buy them.

Don't get me wrong I think this formula with the tires, wheels and weight is a good thing.

I only mentioned aluminum wheels because it would be nice for the heavy people to have a option to get a little closer to min weight. If I need to buy wheels I would like to buy them once and if I had a chance to get a aluminum wheels that are lighter for a few hundred buck it's a no brainer.

In previous post, I had put up some videos from my car, running radials, which were FRESH that season. The car is a 1973 Lynx, with a bullet body and I am 230lbs. All in all tipped the scales at 1150-1160. 80lbs over weight. Was able to keep with the lead pack, draft and pass without much issue.

Like Greg mentioned the wheel / tire package has work very well for the F1200 for many years. Been adopted by the Challenge Series, Being tested on the west coast. It is a positive formula.

The fact the Diamond Racing Wheel has stepped up as a sponsor, is due to the fact we have supported them and their product, in turn they are supporting us. We have made them the Spec wheel.

Not bashing any ideas, because without ideas we will not move forward..But always putting the needs of the entire group ahead of anything else will end up in success.

[Robber98]

Im all in for the cup series. Looking forward to new tracks and big car counts.Rob Murray

[fvee62]

I just want to put my two cents in about the wheels and weight.
Stipulating the single spec wheel helps level the playing field, which is one of the intentions of the series ("Hey he's got aluminum wheels and he's 2/10's faster than me and has better unsprung weight - must get those!").
If you are overweight there are creative ways to deal with that in my opinion. My car has been 15 to 25 lbs. over until the last couple of years when I seriously started addressing that problem.
If you start adding too many variables it will create havoc with the basic Challenge Cup premise and lead to acrimony.
If people want to shave tires (i.e. CHEAT) for an amateur series based on the premise of fair competition and camaraderie I think they really need to take a look inside...
In closing, my thanks go out to the Challenge Cup board, Derm, Rob, Ray, Noel and Dean plus everyone else who is devoting so much of their time and energy (and $) to making the 2015 Challenge Cup fly!
Greg Davis

[nhJohn]

Taking 10 lbs of wheel weight out of a car will have a lot more effect than 10 lbs of ballast and would totally defeat the idea of spec wheels. Determining how much ballast a competitor would need to add to compensate for lighter wheels would require a complicated formula that would need to be different for different tracks. Seems like a complicated and unnecessary change to a proven concept that is 35 years old.

I think the FV concept is great! ..... It is the 35+ years ago period that I and a few of us older and now bigger boys have a problem with. 35 Years ago, my speedsport and I would be about 15lbs to 20lbs over the 1025. TODAY, I am 75 pounds over. Yes, as a society we have been getting "bigger". Myself, Mark and a few others are not looking at lighter wheels for an unsprung advantage, but a total weigh solution.
Would love to be zero body fat like you are, but my reality is I won't loose 75 pounds. BUT, whenever anyone brings up raising the weights, that seems to be met with much scorn.

John

[problemchild]

I think the FV concept is great! ..... It is the 35+ years ago period that I and a few of us older and now bigger boys have a problem with. 35 Years ago, my speedsport and I would be about 15lbs to 20lbs over the 1025. TODAY, I am 75 pounds over. Yes, as a society we have been getting "bigger". Myself, Mark and a few others are not looking at lighter wheels for an unsprung advantage, but a total weigh solution.
Would love to be zero body fat like you are, but my reality is I won't loose 75 pounds. BUT, whenever anyone brings up raising the weights, that seems to be met with much scorn.

John

I have been an advocate of raising the minimum weight in FV for many years, and have made two official requests to SCCA to do so. However, that is a completely separate issue which should be delt with as a separate issue. You just cannot obsolete a hundred sets of wheels, and mess up a 35 year proven concept, by letting some people run lighter weight wheels.
I can tell you, IMO, that is the biggest problem with FF right now. 10 lb wheels cost $100 each. 8 lb wheels cost $250 each. 6 lb wheels cost $500 each. If you are serious, you need $8-10K worth of FF wheels. Lots of people think its stupid, but not very many are interested in scrapping their expensive wheels to make a better rule. Being able to buy $80 12lb spec F1200 wheels is a key to this whole radial tire package. That you only need 4-8 of these wheels is an additional bonus. Fight a battle with your tiny FV buddies to raise minimum weight, but don't mess up a great thing with non-spec wheels.

[nbrigido]

What is frustrating. A lot of time in effort has been put into creating this series and bring it to life. Many drivers have put time, effort and $$$ into creating a series that benefits both the driver and the FV/F1200 community. To hear why things were done a certain way, why things were decided, why, why, why...

A couple of months ago, I had asked a question about what we need to do as a group to grow the series. The Challenge Cup addressed many of those "want" that everyone put out.

Single Group Grids
Good Car Counts
Controlled Cost of Operating
Track Selection
Sponsorship
Promotion
Prize Money
and with the addition of the PRO races, a little bit of spot light.

Is everyone going to be happy, Doubt it..but considering what has gone into making this happen and the fact that it IS happening is a testament the the FV-F1200 community.

Let`s re-group in October and discuss what we can to improve for next year.

[nbrigido]

I think the FV concept is great! ..... It is the 35+ years ago period that I and a few of us older and now bigger boys have a problem with. 35 Years ago, my speedsport and I would be about 15lbs to 20lbs over the 1025. TODAY, I am 75 pounds over. Yes, as a society we have been getting "bigger". Myself, Mark and a few others are not looking at lighter wheels for an unsprung advantage, but a total weigh solution.
Would love to be zero body fat like you are, but my reality is I won't loose 75 pounds. BUT, whenever anyone brings up raising the weights, that seems to be met with much scorn.

John

But on a positive note, with the Help of Allen at Silver Bullet Bodies and a Shorai MiHi Battery was able to shave 50lbs off a Lynx.

Allen was amazing at helping me get that body to fit from 2000 miles away. Best investment I made into the Vee.

[nhJohn]

I have been an advocate of raising the minimum weight in FV for many years, and have made two official requests to SCCA to do so. However, that is a completely separate issue which should be delt with as a separate issue. You just cannot obsolete a hundred sets of wheels, and mess up a 35 year proven concept, by letting some people run lighter weight wheels.
I can tell you, IMO, that is the biggest problem with FF right now. 10 lb wheels cost $100 each. 8 lb wheels cost $250 each. 6 lb wheels cost $500 each. If you are serious, you need $8-10K worth of FF wheels. Lots of people think its stupid, but not very many are interested in scrapping their expensive wheels to make a better rule. Being able to buy $80 12lb spec F1200 wheels is a key to this whole radial tire package. That you only need 4-8 of these wheels is an additional bonus. Fight a battle with your tiny FV buddies to raise minimum weight, but don't mess up a great thing with non-spec wheels.

Agree!

[Steve Bamford]

Rules are set, leave them as is & if you don't think it works for you don't run. Adding variables will just increase cost.