RF97-98 Honda Conversion

[blackhole]

What kind of Chassis mods are required for a Honda Conversion?

Does anyone know how much of the VD kit can be used on the 97-98?

I did a search on apex I found a couple of pictures but with no description of what was changed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Barry Ott]

It will be very similar to these:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48255

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61644

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47205

You essentially don't use the "triangle" at the back of the engine and you remove the three tubes that run from the roll hoop to the top point of the "triangle". Then you have to make upper and lower engine mounts and tie them into the chassis. Seems like all the conversions have come up with slightly different engine mounts and ways to bolt them to the chassis.

If you buy the complete kit, you won't use the body work, engine mounts, fuel cell "adapter" that places the pump in the cell, and a couple other small things. Also, the input shaft won't work and you'll need a to get one that does.

There's a few other things you'll have to figure out, but it's a fun project :-)

Barry

[Dan Pyanowski]

+1 for Ray's blog:

http://rayphillips.blogspot.com/

Fantastic detail on his conversion and I used his lessons learned on my own '00 Van Diemen conversion.

[Steve Bamford]

Kevin,

Caitlin had hers done as well Greg had his that he sold a year or so ago done. Both had different people help them with the conversion but I am sure if you spoke with either of them they could point in the right direction and give advice.

[blackhole]

Im just weighing the options. Any advice would be great.

I think I'm going to stay away from the early 90s cars.

Should I...

Buy a car like a 99+ Van Diemen with conversion already done?

Buy a 97-98 Van Diemen with either the conversion already done or me doing it?

To answer the question before being asked we are capable of doing frame and body modifications at our shop. So it's not a question of that sort of thing it's more about the potential of the car.

Don't really know how competitive the 97-98 VD is compared to a 99+VD with the wide track etc.... or even compared to the newer Mygales and Pipers.

Don't really have the finances to buy anything newer like a Piper or Mygale.

Maybe I'm being a little naive to think an older car could compete in the top 6 in Canada? One thing I figured starting with a Honda would be a step in the right direction.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience could chime in here and give their thoughts on chassis competitiveness new vs old?

[Matt King]

Don't really have the finances to buy anything newer like a Piper or Mygale.

There's a Piper Honda for sale on the site right now for $26K. I doubt you can buy and convert an older VD for much less by the time you factor in labor.

[karmaboy]

Maybe I'm being a little naive to think an older car could compete in the top 6 in Canada?

Umm...Craig Willis seemed to do ok.

[AVR_Shane]

Im just weighing the options. Any advice would be great.

I think I'm going to stay away from the early 90s cars.

Should I...

Buy a car like a 99+ Van Diemen with conversion already done?

Buy a 97-98 Van Diemen with either the conversion already done or me doing it?

To answer the question before being asked we are capable of doing frame and body modifications at our shop. So it's not a question of that sort of thing it's more about the potential of the car.

Don't really know how competitive the 97-98 VD is compared to a 99+VD with the wide track etc.... or even compared to the newer Mygales and Pipers.

Don't really have the finances to buy anything newer like a Piper or Mygale.

Maybe I'm being a little naive to think an older car could compete in the top 6 in Canada? One thing I figured starting with a Honda would be a step in the right direction.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience could chime in here and give their thoughts on chassis competitiveness new vs old?

IMO from what I've seen in regards to the Honda, the biggest attraction to them is the maintenance (or lack there of) required to run them during the season and winter rebuilds.

Kevin, knowing you and your dad, I would imagine that sooner rather than later you would be dipping into the engine and having a go at your own rebuilds. That would make you a bit of an exception to the rule. There are many good examples of a Ford being equal in performance to a Honda.

Get a strong Ford for $15-20k less than a Honda, do your own engine work.

[blackhole]

How about in terms of chassis performance? Wide track vs Narrow? New vs Old?

I know that the 1990 Aero 2 does very well. And the 97VD does really well but it has a Honda in it.

That 1996 Piper looks good. The problem is that it is US dollars by the time you convert to our weak CDN Dollar and pay taxes at the border and go down and pick it up. I'm well over $30000

[old 59]

Have a look at the records... not much in it.

The FFA record at Shannonville is set by a FFB legal car in 2012.
The FFB record at CTMP is pretty damn close to the FFA record.

All that for a fraction of the cost of the top dogs.

[AVR_Shane]

I think one of the big differences between the A cars and B cars comes down to the competitiveness and preparation of the cars. The FFB lap records that Stephen is referencing happens to be their very own 92 VD, with a Ford. Their car, as well as Willis' Aero are meticulously prepped cars, equal to the prep level of the top teams.

The majority of the B cars (in OFFC) either don't have a fearless teenager in them, don't have scales and endless supply of setup and spare parts, or combination of both. All the teams in A have those aspects.

Last year, a 1992ish monoshock B class legal VD almost won the SCCA runoffs against a modern Piper Honda

[AVR_Shane]

How about in terms of chassis performance? Wide track vs Narrow? New vs Old?

I know that the 1990 Aero 2 does very well. And the 97VD does really well but it has a Honda in it.

That 1996 Piper looks good. The problem is that it is US dollars by the time you convert to our weak CDN Dollar and pay taxes at the border and go down and pick it up. I'm well over $30000

Chassis...based on availability of parts, I would pick a VD. Clubine is at pretty much all the events in Ontario and Quebec. That way you don't have to stock your trailer with $10k of spare parts...buy as needed. That's one of the things that was very attractive for us with the Pipers, having Brian at the track.

Wide vs Narrow...wide seems to be the way to go for anything newer than '97 VD. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that there is no wide track upgrade for pre 94 VD cars.

New vs Old....bang for buck based on competitiveness you are getting for the dollar, old. Plus, it's easier to get a trophy with the older car

[Steve Bamford]

Chassis...based on availability of parts, I would pick a VD. Clubine is at pretty much all the events in Ontario and Quebec. That way you don't have to stock your trailer with $10k of spare parts...buy as needed. That's one of the things that was very attractive for us with the Pipers, having Brian at the track.

Wide vs Narrow...wide seems to be the way to go for anything newer than '97 VD. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that there is no wide track upgrade for pre 94 VD cars.

New vs Old....bang for buck based on competitiveness you are getting for the dollar, old. Plus, it's easier to get a trophy with the older car

I agree 100% on this. You will need more parts with a FF compared to FV & it doesn't make sense to carry a trailer load of spares if you have track support, which Britain West has.

I learned this lesson the hard way when I had the only Mygale around...we had to buy approx 20 grand worth of spares to make sure we could finish a weekend if anything happened. You won't have that issue with a VD & the track support.

[old 59]

Plus, it's easier to get a trophy with the older car

Not for long, the way things are going. It's going to get hotter in FFB next year!

[Tom Duncan]

Regarding the 98 Van Diemen, there are two versions. One is built on the older 97 and earlier chassis and is often based on an FC frame. Many of these were the RF98"K" cars, often referred to as "Anniversary", that were made up of whatever parts they could find on the shelves/bins/floor, had a cheap Spartan engine inserted and sold off for $25,000 each.

Depending on the combination of the parts, if it is an FC based frame it usually had a larger fuel tank and radiators, sometimes only max anti-dive in the front (major wrong for FF), front roll center in the wrong place for FF (underground, you need to make front A-arm inboard front pickup points change to make it above ground). The other 98's were built around the 99-style frame. The most obvious difference from the outside is the roll-over bar structure. Bodywork won't necessarily tell you as many have been modified the older cars to remove the engine cover hump. The 99 style frame roll-over hoop has two large bosses about 10" from the top with large bolts through them, the 97 style frames don't.

Tom Duncan

[blackhole]

We bought a 93VD last weekend in Quebec. We will have it ready for the 2016 season. One more year of F1200.

[Steve Bamford]

We bought a 93VD last weekend in Quebec. We will have it ready for the 2016 season. One more year of F1200.

Congratulations Kevin. Since you posted here I am guessing you are converting the car to a Honda? Or did you buy one already converted?

[blackhole]

Congratulations Kevin. Since you posted here I am guessing you are converting the car to a Honda? Or did you buy one already converted?

Thanks. No were going to start with the Kent.

[Steve Bamford]

Thanks. No were going to start with the Kent.

That's a good choice to start with.

You bought yourself an early Xmas gift