+1 for squirrel cage blowers. We require two turned on high at the inlet with the body on to stay idling in the garage.
+1 for squirrel cage blowers. We require two turned on high at the inlet with the body on to stay idling in the garage.
Nowhere we can really take it for a spin, what is the temperature it should run at in a garage with fans on it?
I was just going to suggest that as well.Originally Posted by AJWALKER
The problem from square one was you thought a big shop fan would keep it cool. It won't.
It needs about 35 mph of air going through the rads. The air from a shop fan just goes on the path of least resistance, which is not through the rads.
Yes it will start bubbling at 210 with no cap on. Normal.
Sorry I forgot to say, we did check the head for flatness.
My concern is that it bubbles and overloads the 14lb pressure cap and starts dumping water. We will try some different fans though to see if we can get more through the radiators. I could just see it on a 100F day dumping all of the water out of the system.
Three points for future action (not sure they will solve your immediate problem but should be done for better cooling performance in the future)
- small bore bleed from all high points in the cooling system to the top (air) section of your header tank. -03 hose, 1/16" or 3/32" restrictor, always open (no shutoff)
- larger hose (3/8 or 1/2") from bottom (water) section of header tank to water pump intake to insure you pump water and not a water/steam/air mixture. I suspect from your latest update, where you say the water goes to the bottom of a radiator, that you have combined swirl-pot/header-tank/expansion-tank. I and Carroll Smith (!) both strongly recommend a separate header tank mounted as high as possible, plumbed as I just said.
- do use a water restrictor as near to the cylinder head as possible (water exit side) to make sure there is enough water pressure inside the head to discourage steam pockets formation. Some say use an old thermostat with the stat removed; I make my own housings with a 1/2" bore restriction flared both sides to discourage steam formation from turbulent flow.
I'm afraid you learned a lot about cooling systems when all you needed was to learn which fan to use.
You need a fan like this up against each rad to run in a shop.
Last edited by Purple Frog; 09.28.15 at 1:28 PM.
Without a restrictor/thermostat in place and NO BUBBLES until temp is up to boiling temperature I'd say head/block/cylinders are probably okay. Otherwise the bubbles would be formed from combustion gases pretty much immediately after startup.
Stop running it in the garage without enough air being forced through the radiators before you DO overheat it bad enough to warp/crack the head.
Bleed air from the system as others have suggested, install a good cap and take it somewhere where you can drive it around at 20-40 mph for several minutes to test the cooling system.
Tomorrow we are going to rig up some coppus blowers on the rads and plumb them in series. I will let you know what happens!!!
My vote is with the Frog. You need a crap load of air flow to keep these things cool, even with no load.
My experience is that my car will overheat when road speed is under 100 kph - which happens when you have a boofhead driving a slow pace or safety car.
Second the advice to take it for a spin at speed.
"Bubbles and overflow at the expansion tank start around 200 to 210."
From that statement, it sounds as if you are running without the cap. Boiling point at sea level with a 14 PSIG cap should be 248 F. Pittsburgh is ~ 700 to 1000' ASL, so your actual boiling point is probably around 245 F with the cap. Running the engine without the cap may be your problem. Bleed out all the air, replace the cap and run it until temp gets to 220-230 and see if gases are relieving from the cap. If you're still pushing gas (bubbles) out the cap at 220, then there's probably combustion gases getting into the water system.
So for my education, what temperature do you guys see your cars running at when you are on the track?
180 - 200 in ambient temps up to 35 celsius (95F) and 220 at 42(107) degrees. By the way, use some Water Wetter in the coolant. It really works.
Sounds about right from our experience and FER SER the Water Wetter. Wonderful stuff, a must have:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=1699
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
So we put two coppus blowers on the rads. These blowers shoot air at 175 CFM (cubic feet per minute). With one fan on the car idled at about 160F, with 2 on it went down to 120-130. I attached some pictures of what we did.
If this seems right to you then I must thank you all for the outstanding advice!!!
Ha, I thought you misspelled COPIOUS.
Increase Engine RPMs
With the undersize crankshaft pulley your water pump is not pumping that much coolant until the RPMs reach about 3,500. If you were running the engine at low speed then it is going to get hot fast.
Looks like it is ready to take off
Graham.
Where in Pittsburgh are you located?
Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
As one of the engine guru(s) here in the northwest explained to me...the better built engines develop more Hp than years ago and to some extent over whelm the stock radiators. Perhaps your engine just happens to develop too much Hp.
In all seriousness, the numerous hints to solve the problem should be saved by all, particularly newbies. My opinion: I've used Redline oil for years, however the water wetter does NOT solve existing legitimate problems and is of questionable value as noted by some critics on the internet. After my chasing an apparent overheating problem, I hate to admit the biggest problem turned out to be a water temp gauge that read about 15C high even after spending a small fortune on a new radiator.
We spent months trying to figure out why my motor seemed to fall on its face at 6400RPM. It turned out the 7200 rev limiter was doing its job and my tach was off.
Caldwell D9B - Sold
Crossle' 30/32/45 Mongrel - Sold
RF94 Monoshock - here goes nothin'
Pulleys
Cass, You have an older Kent powered ford and many of the early engines were built with water pump pulleys that moved the water too fast. The water speed must be able to allow for the heat to leave the flow. The newer pulleys have a much larger top pulley to slow down the water pump. Plus, the proper tempurature can only be recognized at speed, not sitting still, no matter how many fans you have.
If you put washers under the bolt heads they must be hardened steel washers, not common hardware store or AN washers. Both of those will crush out and let the head lift. You can use hardened steel washers from a hot rod shop designed for head bolts, or you can get MS20002 washers from the usual mil-spec fastener suppliers.
Brian
Water Nightmare
Thanks for all your help, have learnt lots of valuable tips. All seems well, my big problem was that we run a mk 27 Legrand for hill climb, which has cooling fans on the rads. So I ran the Legrand without fans it to gets hot!
Thanks again!
Cass Racing Snr
Gentlemen, this is what is called a "Wild Goose Chase"!!!!! Happy motoring Cass, glad the guys and yourself got it!!! All been there, Purple got it, can't run a race car longer than 10 minutes standing still without fans of some sort down the holes!!! we run without for about 7 minutes til 180 degrees 20 minutes prior to grid and shut off and let heat spread!!
Last edited by Modo; 04.11.14 at 8:59 AM.
Merlyn Twin Rads
Is this setup the same as yours?
Cant help about the radiator, but could you get a bigger battery?
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