Racing events on military bases

[Rick Kirchner]

We've just started an on-base car club where I work and after a couple of car shows we are attempting to do some "dynamic" events, starting with an autocross.

Active military bases have been used for racing for years - I know there used to be SCCA events at NA Oceana and Point Mugu for instance. The big vintage event at Coronado really doesn't count because that thing is just turned over to a promoter who handles all the stuff with the navy.

I'm trying to find people who have actively organized such things in the past and have examples of the documentation they were asked to produce. You can't rely on the military side because they turn over every couple of years and the corporate memory goes with.

[Dwayne Anderson]

You should talk to Chris Vandergriff HMSA He does the coronorado vintage race

[beachguy12]

Rick:
Keep us posted on the results of you endeavor.

I'd be in for racing for my military brethren and their families in their 'backyards'.


Arthur

[DanW]

Fresno SCCA sometimes runs their autocrosses at Atwater - Winton ramp. Its the old Castle AFB.

SCCA SFR and the American Auto-x series ran at Mather on an aircraft parking ramp years ago. I can get contact info for you if needed.

Once Mather became a general aviation airport, auto-x went away because of "security issues".

Running on weathered concrete is great! The grip is amazing, especially on street rubber!

Regards,
Dan

[george schilling]

Rick, we are losing our summer home at El Toro in the near future. We'd like to get into Los Alamitos Reserve Center for summer events being it's 2 miles from the beach. It hasn't been a pressing issue as long as El Toro is operating, but we'll be making a concerted effort later this year. I'll keep you informed.

[chrisw52]

Fresno SCCA sometimes runs their autocrosses at Atwater - Winton ramp. Its the old Castle AFB.

SCCA SFR and the American Auto-x series ran at Mather on an aircraft parking ramp years ago. I can get contact info for you if needed.

Once Mather became a general aviation airport, auto-x went away because of "security issues".

Running on weathered concrete is great! The grip is amazing, especially on street rubber!

Regards,
Dan

Like Dan eludes to, the problem is not the military, but the FAA.

[Rick Kirchner]

generally speaking, the military is compelled to provide facilities for taxpayer use unless there'a a security issue. The FAA? Well out here in Ridgecrest was the worlds OLDEST and MOST CONTINUALLY OPERATING drags trip at Inyokern.

The FAA shut it down but still allows film crews to use our east-west runway (many car commercials have Owens Peak in the background). In fact, the airport district had the runway re-paved specifically to attract more car commercials.

[DanW]

The first time I enjoyed an airport circuit was at the Lone Pine Time Trials about 1971. The "course" was simply two runways connected by a u-turn taxi way.

Burned in my memory was a polished Cobra with a SOHC 427 stuffed under the hood. The sound it made making it's passes was like nothing else.

[Rick Kirchner]

Dan - Lone Pine is alive and well, although the surface is a bit rough.

[beachguy12]

A friend of mine, Bill Peavy, was a field race engineer for Ford in the late 1960's early 1970's.

The Dearborn engineers directed the field engineers to limit shift points on the 427 SOHC's to 11,500 rpm as 780hp was the best that could be achieved. Bill insisted he could continue to produce power to 13,500 rpm. Yes, a 427 C.I. V-8 spinning 13,500 rpm!

Bill took one of his motors to Dearborn and on the factory Ford dynos of the day got 880hp at 13,500. On pump gas and carbs!

By the way, the motor disintegrated at 13,700.

[Revs2-12k]

North Carolina SCCA Region's Cape Fear Chapter currently runs Autocrosses on the 4000ft Fox Trot Runway at Cherry Point MCAS in Havelock, NC. The base remains active and is quite supportive, so much so they even erect bleachers for spectators. A large contingent of Marines regularly attend Novice schools and the Auto-x's.

Event link:

http://www.ncrscca.com/events/2014/0...memorial-autox

By my recollection, they've run there for the past 5-6 years, so there are new people running these events and involved with daily contact with the base. I do know they started negotiations with the " Single Marine Program ".

Contact the NCR Solo staff via www.ncrscca.com listed under " Contacts "
NCR Solo Board

[Rick Kirchner]

now that's what I'm looking for! Same command too (NAVAIR)

[Modo]

West Palm was an old WWII Pratt Whitney airstrip I believe. The first time there 'Nov 76, camping out at the facility, we could hear them fire up the jet engines at the factory across the street, cool. Then Saturday night, was the only drag race i've ever seen, some of them looked like they just got off the strip in Lauderdale with temp numbers smudged on the windows, however there was a third wheel motorcycle (DRAG BIKE) that ripped the lights and then dropped down into top gear and kept going because it was an airstrip, awesome. After dinner in town that night, we had trouble getting back in, remember the guy (NHRA) at the gate saying sure u r with the scca, I know you red, his eyes looked a little bloodshot, crusty old feela, yea, got back in!! Beat the old guy Bachelor in an air cooled Lola SV with my Tui in Sunday's race, giving him the line and splashing rain puddles down into his Solex stacks, crapped out his sparkers!! Beat Shelton in his ford too, he had a neat background as most of you know, was my first year, what the heck, spossed to beat a ford!!........ had rained and had puddles all over but still was slick tire weather and of course I had no choice anyway, amazing how if you are on a straight, you can floor it and remain straight, have to modulate the gas pedal though on the puddles, or it will act like a slipping clutch until u hit pavement again....... jest a bit twitchy to say the least!!!! .......... still have the trophy with a race car on top, one of my best, would be cool if I had a base re-made of wood instead of plastic but not doing well at errands these days. .......

Sorry about the story telling Kirch, suppose a little Monday bored, closest base here is Ft. Meade and Tipton Army Air field, has civilian aircraft there I believe by the same rule u quoted ........

[Revs2-12k]

Glad to help, adding a great pic of Cherry Point MCAS including the FoxTrot Runway for emphasis!

[Rick Kirchner]

I spent a year out at the EW range there one week......

Only those whove spent a week in the winter at a hotel on the water having to eat breakfast at the local marina would truly understand.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I'm trying to find people who have actively organized such things in the past and have examples of the documentation they were asked to produce. You can't rely on the military side because they turn over every couple of years and the corporate memory goes with.

Contact the people at Vapor Trail Vettes (see comments below):
http://www.vaportrailvettes.com

The FAA shut it down but still allows film crews to use our east-west runway (many car commercials have Owens Peak in the background). In fact, the airport district had the runway re-paved specifically to attract more car commercials.

Sort of - it's NOT the FAA that shutdown access to airports - its TSA.

Up until about 6 years ago, there was a very active go-cart track at the Santa Maria Airport. Then it was shutdown for "security reasons" - that was BS.

The scoop: All Airport tarmac is either runway, taxiway or FBO controlled. The FBOs (Fixed Base Operators) are basically the controllers of access to what we racers would like to use. We need access through an FBO to get to abandoned runway/taxiway.

In Santa Maria's case, the operator of the go-cart track and the FBO that controlled that space got into an argument. The FBO shut them down.

A few years ago, Porsche USA was looking for a private place to demonstrate cars. One rich dude talked to another and the FBO that controlled some space in Santa Maria (including the kart track) was talked into allowing Porsche to pave a track on top of some old tarmac. Rumor is they spent $10mil - I think people exaggerated. Anyway, once Porsche was done, the Porsche club in that region obtained permission and started holding autocrosses.

The Airport Manager pressured the FBO to extend the track to other clubs and then more recently extend the use of the kart track to a "new" kart club. The airport makes money as does the FBO.

Security & the TSA: So when Porsche initially did their thing, they hire TSA agents to provide security (a requirement of both the TSA and the airport). Clubs couldn't afford that, but there was a workaround. Club members became "TSA agents". The airport manager assisted them (fill out a form, answer a few questions and have a background check - and of course pay a fee). Voila. TSA agents for free.....

The 2 key people are the Airport Manager and the FBO that controls the space. Get them onboard and the rest can be worked out.

My closest Autocross place is Camarillo (or Santa Maria - I'm an hour from both). Both are space limited compared to El Toro or Marina up north.

A couple years ago I tried to work out space with Port Hueneme. The port has HUGE open paved spaces. They said, TSA was the problem but I now know its management not interested. I also found out that one of their huge lots can fill and empty in a day - so reserving space for a track is logistically problematic.

The battle goes on - hope this info can be helpful. Its a combination of first and second hand info.

[Modo]

Don't say 'trench' to the 'Fighting SeaBees' (Port H), They will reply, "Where and When!!!" .....

SeaBee is equals to CB, Civil Battalion, as in Bulldozer n' John Wayne ....

/
/
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Rick Below .... yea Navsea (NSWSES) is who I was with as a contractor to know what/where Pt. Hueneme is. Built a video conference room there, easy stuff, is Rucker still at the VTC at Mugu, LOL ...... they used to shoot missiles at Santa Cruz island (Channel Islands) from Hueneme back in the olden days (Covered Wagons NO) probably just seals (animals) there and a park now ...... I would expect any unexploded ordinance has long been swept up ..........carry on Rick ......... sorry .......

[Rick Kirchner]

At PH it depends on what side of the facility. For the military it's NAVSEA and Navy Region Southwest (actually our landlord at China Lake and Point Mugu). You need someone on the "inside" who gets access to the command staff, the information I'm looking for in this thread, and a little luck. the command staff rotates every couple years, so it can be frustrating selling a concept over and over again.

On the commercial side, I think you answered your own question - not interested.

There'a a car club @ Mugu too, and a couple of my autocross employees there might give it a go once we get a venue at China Lake. There's a LOT of room @ mugu.

[Wren]

Like Dan eludes to, the problem is not the military, but the FAA.

The military typically does not take direction from the FAA. Military aircraft and operate under their own regulations.

I've taken a little bit of perverse joy in calls to the local FSDO and when they don't like something we are going to do telling them, "This is a courtesy call to let you know what will be happening, I'm not asking your permission." There's not much they can do about it.

At PH it depends on what side of the facility. For the military it's NAVSEA and Navy Region Southwest (actually our landlord at China Lake and Point Mugu). You need someone on the "inside" who gets access to the command staff, the information I'm looking for in this thread, and a little luck. the command staff rotates every couple years, so it can be frustrating selling a concept over and over again.

On the commercial side, I think you answered your own question - not interested.

There'a a car club @ Mugu too, and a couple of my autocross employees there might give it a go once we get a venue at China Lake. There's a LOT of room @ mugu.

Start with whatever the Navy's version of MWR is. In the Army the requirements would be a Composite Risk Management worksheet and risk acceptance from the garrison commander.

[rickb99]

I remember the days when the BIG airport in town was looking to rent out their runways on the weekends BECAUSE, there was no such thing as commercial or public carrier flights on Saturday or Sunday. Airports were shut down.

[Daryl DeArman]

Up until about 6 years ago, there was a very active go-cart track at the Santa Maria Airport. Then it was shutdown for "security reasons" - that was BS.

Bummer...one of my most memorable kart races there. State Championships in 1991. Was paddocked across from Buddy Rice when his mom broke her leg in the paddock and is screaming in pain just as Buddy's Junior group is being called to pre-grid. Pops is yelling at her to get in the van and shut up, they'll go to the hospital after Buddy's heat! I remember Buddy trying to hold it together and focus on the task at hand. Poor kid. Sorry to digress, just brought back a memory.

[Modo]

good story Daryl, keep it up man!!! ....... not Viagra, have sum culcha, (not Brooklyn!!)

[joefuhring]

I began racing at the Santa Maria Airport back in 1962. I use to race there every month until the 1990 and then my son began racing there. That track is one of the best go-kart tracks in the country but the airport would only lease it on a month to month basis even as far back as the 1960's. Enough of the history.

There are several organizations that are working on a Drag Strip, motocross, and road racing track in Lompoc ca. They are building it with private funds as well as the Handcock J.C. for their police accidemy. I have been told that it is underway but not as yet seen anything.

[Rick Kirchner]

Wren: Our club is actually a MWR sponsored STIG. We've done two large car shows now, some movie events, even some track days. The problem is all of these commands are essentially a new entry point every time someone rolls over. They get more comfortable whenever they know someone else has been doing it before, and have an example of how it was done.

Our JAG is a freaking LT. If I want to know the basics of a combat system or associated tactics, I'll ask a LT, but they don't know much else, except how to say NO when they don't understand something.

Haven't heard of a Risk Management worksheet though - I'll ask around on that one. Some of the crap the security bozos come up with is truly mind boggling though.

[Larry]

Back in the mid-70s we ran autocrosses on the base in Minot, ND!. We didn't use any of the ramp/taxiway, as that would have introduced a lot of security problems. There were plenty of large, empty parking lots to choose from. It was sold to the base commander on the ideas of promoting vehicle safety, community involvment, keeping the GIs out of the bars and doing something positive, etc. We stole many of the SCCA safety standards, and even used some flaggers.

Larry Oliver
Survivor of 3 years and 9 days in North Dakota

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I began racing at the Santa Maria Airport back in 1962. I use to race there every month until the 1990 and then my son began racing there. That track is one of the best go-kart tracks in the country but the airport would only lease it on a month to month basis even as far back as the 1960's. Enough of the history.

There are several organizations that are working on a Drag Strip, motocross, and road racing track in Lompoc ca. They are building it with private funds as well as the Handcock J.C. for their police accidemy. I have been told that it is underway but not as yet seen anything.

There have been a lot of rumors. There lompoc track is supposed to be at Hancock. Then I heard there was going to be a track complex north of Santa Maria.
Considering the speedway has lots of problems with the environmentalists and it's a simple dirt oval, I don't have much hope.

I've always thought there would be a market for a road coarse in this area. Everything in socal gets so friggin hot in the summer because they are all in the desert.

[EYERACE]

Here in Central Florida the news ran stories about how the NASA/Space boys over on the coast wanted to be more involved with the community about six months ago........so I called I forget who it was that was mentioned in the story to say > Years ago some NASA Engineer who had a Formula Ford actually ran it on the Shuttle Landing Strip.......that story and pictures of that car were in the Orlando Sentinel about two years ago.......I asked, "So maybe Central Florida SCCA could get it for Solos or more???" ......I was told that there are wide gaps between the sections and weeds growing up all over the place.....so the answer was NO. Hmmmmmm.......

.......the other week there was a news story about how a new Land World Speed record was set there on the Shuttle Landing Strip.........270 miles an hour in a two seater or something. I have no idea who it was or how they gained access........but I guess they dispensed with the weeds and the gaps must not really be that big.

I must have talked to the wrong person................definition of wrong person: someone who does not race.

Years ago we had big, long, wide open, fast Solos [Flat Spotters Reunion] on the runway at McDill Air Force base in Tampa........cleanest concrete I've ever seen. One course was done as the layout of Road Atlanta but flat of course.....the longest slalom and widest open course you can imagine. Often many people with great racing pedigree would show up only for that event on the calender. Any military people were allowed to run for free. One emphasis was that we kept it clean of litter.......the example was, "Can you imagine what a cigarette butt does when it's sucked into a jet engine?" Well all that stopped after 9-11 because McDill is a nerve center for the military and war on terrorism. One more thing BinLaden messed up.

[Rick Kirchner]

Yeah, in 2000-2001 the racing situation in SoCal was not that good. There was Buttonwillow, fairly new at that time, Willow Springs liked to play favorites, Fontana had no road course, there was no Chuckwalla, and Pahrump was unsuitable for actual racing. In 2000 I even made a 12 hr tow to Thunderhill for a race.

VARA offset that by holding temporary street/airport events. The LAGP was pretty cool, there were events at the Tustin MCAS, Murietta airport, the Palm Springs GP, in the parking lot at Fontana, and even a remote air strip on the AZ/NM border.

I hear that setting up those events was a helluva lot of work, but a lot of fun for the participants. Tustin, Palm Springs, and the LAGP were spectator events and brought some pretty big crowds. Unfortunately, I never ran any of them.

In early 2001 I started looking into hosting an event at the China Lake airfield. I even had the contact info for the guy at NAS Oceana that put together the race there. I started putting together the package for the base command, and if I got the slightest head nod I was going to take that to the VARA board. Then 9/11 happened. Our base was locked down for 12 years.

Unfortunately we hire a lot of truly idiot civilians into our security forces. They don't understand the difference between "possibility" and "probability" - as in "it's possible for monkeys to fly out of my butt, but highly improbable". We had a community day last year - first one since 1992 - and unfortunately the government financial crisis occurred at the same time and we were all getting furloughed. Our cop shop waited until the last planning meeting and came in requesting to double the number of officers and all on overtime, while everyone else was donating their time.

The NCIS, now freed from their role as the "Pecker Patrol" rooting out gays in the military, now see spies and terrorists behind every tree. Believe me, they aren't as smart, technologically savvy, or as pretty as they are portrayed on TV. That's a bully pulpit that bunch doesn't deserve.

Commanders are only in their jobs for two years now, and rely on these locals. By the time they figure out what a bunch of Wankers they have on staff, they're too short to do anything about it. They are also loathe to clip the wings on security guys because if they do that and something does happen, even if it's not associated with their actions, their career is over.

Sometimes when an "incident" occurs, even outside the gates, they close the base schools AND increase gate security - creating a mile long traffic jam in two directions when parents have to come pick up their kids. I remember when a nutcase walked down a row of cars waiting to get into the front gate at Langley and gunned folks in line with an AK.....

The result of all this is that the security burden gets heavier and heavier, and no one even looks to see if it's effective. We've turned into a f'n police state in more ways than one. Rant over!

Our old base CO was a gear head, along with the Vice Commander (known as the "pied piper of car shows" because he gets a car club going wherever he's stationed). The new CO - I think he get's his oil changed at Pep Boys, but he's not saying hell no. We have to brief him next week on our proposed autocross.

[Steve Demeter]

The 270 mph run was done by a Hennesey Venom, IIRC. There is an in car video of it somewhere on the web.

That thing accelerated like a rocket ship.

[rickb99]

Yeah, in 2000-2001 the racing situation in SoCal was not that good.....

Rick,

What happened to the long ago rumored plan to bring back a major track in Riverside? I had understood that the city fathers had realized what a loss of worldwide recognition they had suffered from the loss of the track and they were determined to bring it back???

Yes, I went through drivers school at Riverside and raced there.

[Rick Kirchner]

I haven't heard anything about a Riverside replacement. I've heard there was something going on in the central valley south of SAC, and several years ago one of our members, Tom Malloy, attempted to get permits for a track on his property on the other side of the AV from Willow Springs. the Huth family was very successful in organizing a number of environmental groups to oppose it, so that fell thru.

Would be nice to have a place between LA and SD that's close enough to the water to not be so damn hot in the summer. Unless there's a superfund site that needs to be paved over, I'd guess that all that land is way too valuable.

[rickb99]

....all that land is way too valuable.

Yes that's what Riverside thought too. Until they did it then NOBODY in the world knew where Riverside was any more.... LOL

[mmi16]

When the NSA (National Security Agency) was formed at Fort Meade, MD the Annapolis Jct. Sports and Touring Club was formed for NSA employees to participate in their automotive interests. The club was primarily a autocrossing club and participated in Washington DC council events. The NSA parking lots at the main Fort Meade facility were used for AJSTC events and were made available to the club for one Saturday every month for the club to hold a 'practice' for it's members. Events, from personal participation, were held at least up to 1997. I am certain 9/11 has changed everything. The primary restriction to use of the lots was 'NO CAMERAS' - Fort Meade MP's enforced that restriction.

[EYERACE]

The 270 mph run was done by a Hennesey Venom, IIRC. There is an in car video of it somewhere on the web.

That thing accelerated like a rocket ship.

Now if someone in the Cent. Fla. Region SCCA can figure out who to talk to about that shuttle strip.

[mikey]

Now if someone in the Cent. Fla. Region SCCA can figure out who to talk to about that shuttle strip.

no kidding! that's a major piece of concrete! MacDill was an alternate landing site for the shuttle and that runway is 12,000' ..
I think Kennedy is 15,000' x 300'. You could make a 4 mile "autocross" LOL.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Would be nice to have a place between LA and SD that's close enough to the water to not be so damn hot in the summer. Unless there's a superfund site that needs to be paved over, I'd guess that all that land is way too valuable.

San onofre ?
We could race around the domes....

[96Formula6spd]

I am looking into this thread. A good friend of mine has his Dad who works at Shaw Airforce Base in Sumter SC. He has been in the Air Force for the last 29 years. We are trying to see what we can do to get into Shaw. I am in South Carolina Region SCCA and our Autox sites are few and far in between.

By the looks of it It has been done. I know Shaws F-16s have moved for the most part to other bases. So this one is pretty stripped. We could run an event there and its Concrete which would bring in 200+ drivers as they could use it for testing. So the few that are there would just have to get their flights in before Saturday or Sunday. They have done 1 and 2 day air shows. So letting the public on base should not be a problem. At least it was not in 2012. Anybody local willing to help. We have an in with the Base Commander so its just a matter of talking with him I guess.

[phantomjock]

Key "Traps" you want to run:
1. Airfield Manager - The person that "owns" the airfield They can help - or be a roadblock. They will be responsible for publishing any Notices to Airmen (NOTAM) if the field is closed - or certain areas are blocked for an "event." They usually live under the OSS Operational Support Squadron.es and contact det
2. Safety Office - Sort of functionally under OSS, but really a WING function. Ground Safety would be the specific office.
3. Consider following a Tire Rack Safety Day- type program. Teen Age driving etc. I haven't been able to play, but the Gulf Coast Region does this - and then they use Day 2 is an AUTOX for those that help on Day 1. Just a thought.
4. Build the support with these key agencies, so when you see the Wing Commander or his staff, everyone else supports the plan.

Best of Luck - keep lots of notes and details.

Cheers - Jim

[Rick Kirchner]

contact north carolina Solo. They were a great help for us.

As previously stated in one way or another, most bases are keen to keep the soldiers from street racing or crashing their bikes - so wrapping it up in a safe competition wrapper helps. Most of this stuff will get kicked to the Vice Commander or XO, and you'll be dealing with base safety and the JAG.

It is absolutely mind boggling how little most pepole know about motorsports, but the military is even more sheltered from it than the general public. Expect a lot of questions, skepticism, etc. our JAG thought SOLO was unsafe (without seeing one first). I told her coming back to the carrier in the north atlantic was far less safe.....

North carolina region has a cool video showing the sailors running the autocross at cherry point. That sold it to the staff for us.

kudos to GT1Vette for getting us to the right people in NCR.

[Christopher Crowe]

-- when you really need him. A great friend to the SCCA, and a good guy to have on your side when the lights go out.

Thanks,

Chris