BT21C Information sought

[Ed Holly]

I have recently purchased a BT21C that was recently brought into Australia from the US.

The car changed hands as a single seat sports racing car or possibly a Formula Atlantic car around the mid 80's when it was sold to Philippe de Lespinay. Philippe says it had a "not very nice" body on it and was colored yellow and red. Philippe apparently bought the car to take out the FT200 for another project, bought back the original light blue body then removed the sports car type body and associated outriggers. He then sold the remainder on to Russel Baldwin. Philippe bought the car from the Northwest area, and I have found a Portland Oregan sticker on the throttle cable which would indicate this.

Preceding being used as above the car competed as a Brabham single seater with a light blue livery, but I am not sure when this was.

The chassis retains its Arch Motors frame number of 288.

Since purchasing the car, I have had the chassis straightened by an ex Brabham fabricator here by the name of Elwyn Bickley, who after 58 hours on it has made it like new. It was twisted in every bay front, cockpit and rear, and bent as well. Elwyn says that damage usually occurs when a car hits an earth bank and stops very suddenly. The frame is now ready for re-bead blasting and then painting, before the restoration starts.

Some records that came with the car identify it as a BT21C, and certainly the AM number is a very late one which would also indicate this.

If anyone has any memories of a light blue Brabham becoming a yellow and red single seat sports racer, or Formula Atlantic, I would very much appreciate your comments.

Wow, I have just seen there have been 2700 of you that have looked at my request ... thankyou ...

I am the registrar for our Sydney based Club, the HSRCA and try to do my bit for the Historic cause by doing a newsletter for the Atlantic equivalent down here. The last one was 40 pages lots of photos, so if you are interested in seeing what we do down here go to ...

http://www.hsrca.com/wp-content/uplo...sletter-14.pdf

its the 14th one I have done over the couple of years. If you want to be on the email list for them just drop me an email and I'll put you on the list. We've had quite a few of your guys come down the last 3 runnings of our Tasman Revival at Eastern Creek.

[Ed Holly]

Thankyou to the 90 odd members who have taken the trouble to look at my post.

It would appear that no-one yet has linked the blue open wheeler to a yellow and red single seat sports car.

I have gone through all the early years on various websites and especially the ones Allen Brown helps out on and listed the various drivers who raced BT21C's in the period.

Can anyone tell me if any of these drivers had a light blue car.

Don Delamore, Mike Hansen, Charlie Adams, Gary Andreini, John Marshall, Quin Calhoun, Malcolm Starr, bruce Jenson, John Babcheck, Bill Baldwin, Bob Bovenizer, Gary Gove, Bill Middleton.

Thanks... Ed

[timos]

http://www.nvo.com/brabhams/registercontact/ shows the Brabham registry contact; 288 is an entry in John's database of chassis #s if my memory is correct.

He might only have the history info you already know, of course.

tim

[scotts216]

ED, There is a 7 page thread at Tentenths website about BT-21 identities going on - It appears that these fellows know everything about every Brabham chassis ever built -

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/show...t=62829&page=1

I suggest you visit, read all the threads, and then post there...... I'll bet one of these guys will come up with it your chassis ID?

Good Luck, Scott

[Ed Holly]

A little more information has come to light which may or may not be of use.

There is a chance my car may have been a BT21 C that came through Fred Opert to a driver by the name of McLoughlin. Would anyone know of this driver around the late 60's in a Brabham?

Ed

[Ed Holly]

A little further info has come to light that maybe of help.

Bob Slusher from Oregon recently sent me this info :-

Pierre Phillips recalls during 1970-71 that a fellow who lived in Tocoma, Washington stuffed his Chevron so badly that it could not be rebuilt. He bought a older Brabham and crafted the Chevron to the Brabham to create a sports racer. Pierre could not recall his name, but it may be a lead.

If anyone recalls this car, the BT21C Brabham that I now have is more than likely the Brabham mentioned here by Pierre. The Sports Racer when sold to Philippe De Lespinay and later Russel Baldwin had Chevron rear uprights at the rear.

If anyone remembers anything about the sports - racer I would very much appreciate your help.

Regards .. Ed

[David Clubine]

Ed,

If you email me, I can put you in touch with Bill Bovenizer (it was Bill, not Bob), who had a BT-21 in the 60's. I don't know the details of the car, but Bill would be happy to help out.

David Clubine
dclubine@sentex.net

[Ed Holly]

David thank you for your help am now corresponding with Bill.

Does anyone know any details of

CONFERENCE RACING

When and where and at what era they were from etc. There is a chance they may have had something to do with the car at some stage ....

regards

Ed

[se7en]

"Conference Racing" probably refers to the International Conference of Sports Car Clubs (or ICSCC) here in the Pacific Northwest. Google ICSCC or go to www.icscc.com .
HTH,
Ken

[Ed Holly]

Ken,

Thanks - that fits in the context of where the mention of Conference Racing was.

Ed

[Ed Holly]

The last owner before the car left the USA found the history file last week that came with the car when he bought it some 6 or so years ago.

From that it is now known that the car was raced as a CSR car with some success by Don Smethers in the early 1980s . Don has kindly sent me a photo of the car as it was then with him winning the Northwest Grand Prix at Deer Park Wa in 1982 with it.

Don had bought the BT21C, basically in pieces, and welded a square tube undertray to the chassis and then fitted a rather nice red and yellow body and it ran with a OHC 2 litre Ford engine. It looks similar to many Sports 2000s although it was not running under that formula. Evidence of this undertray was on the frame when I bought it.

Don bought the car from Kevin not sure of his surname yet, but maybe Cobert. The history file tells of the car being sold to Kevin by a guy in Milwaukee and that it may have come from a dealer prior to that. Lots of follow up work to do.

Thank you to all who have looked at this thread and to those that have posted.

Still a long way to go, but at least a number of snippets of info have come together. Again if you can help please let me know.

regards - Ed

[Ed Holly]

I have been able to find out quite a bit more of this BT21C's history since my last post. Below you will see the history trail after a lot of work I have been able to ascertain.

Unfortunately getting back before Pierre Phillips is proving very difficult. There is a chance that the car came into Pierre's hands via a guy that traded it for a Lola Formula Ford from the West-Coast, but that is of course only a possiblilty.

That the car is a genuine 21C there is now no doubt, when the car went to Don Smether's it still had the dashboard mounted chassis number and Kevin Culver disctinctly remembers it was BT21C- ?? but he cannot now remember the number unfortunately. Don made the new dash to fit the CCSR body he fitted and now the original dashboard cannot be found.

Another way of trying to obtain the early history is to try and trace the early competitors in these cars. I have spoken to Bill Bovenizer, and it is very unlikely this is his car.

Other names that raced 21c's that fit the timeframe are Bruce Jenson and Dr Bill Middleton, Mike Hayman, Bill Baldwin, Gary Gove, John Babchek, Quin Calhoun, Don Delamore, Mike Hansen, Gari (or Gary) Andreini, John Marshall, Wayne Spears.

I am sure there are many others that raced BT21C Brabhams, but many many hours on the web I have only been able to come up with this list.

If anyone knows how to contact any of these Brabham 21C driversfrom around 1970, I would be most apreciative of your help.

I will be entering the car for our May meeting at Eastern Creek. I drove it a few months ago and have completed the short list of things to do after that. It was beautiful to drive and should prove pretty competative.

regards

Ed

Holly 2005-
Gould 2004-2005
Mortimer 2004-2004
Delane 2001-2004
Baldwin 1986-2001
deLespinay 1986-1986
Jim Schnell (crashed car badly) -1986
Dan Dickson Jack Todaro
2 guys body shop Barbur Blvd 1983-
Don Smethers 1981-1983
Kevin Culver 1979-1981
Guy in Milwaukee (frozen pipes)
Pierre Phillips c1976

Yet to be identified 1968-1976

[Allen Brown]

Hi Ed

What did Bill Bovenizer tell you about his car? It was a BT21 wasn't it? Ex-Frank Williams possibly?

You mention Wayne Spears in your list. He drove Peter Roberts car from 1969 but I don't know whether that was a BT21, BT21A or BT21C (yet). Spears wrecked the car at Mt Tremblant early in 1970.

Allen

[Ed Holly]

I have recently made contact with Robert Rentzell of Chatanooga, Robert often shared cars with Noel McGlothlin and remembers his BT21C well, and even drove it once or twice on test days.

Robert advised that Noel passed away in 1980. He isn't sure what happened to the 21C when Noel finished with it and is going to check with the family to see if they know for me.

Of course there is no guarantee my car is in fact Noel's which was BT21C-14 but there is evry likelihood that it is, and as I seem unable to go further back in time before Pierre Phillips I am trying in go forward from Noel's time with it and see where that leads.

I have records of Noel running it at Sebring 68 and 69 and VIR, and there must be further meetings he did with it in the SouthEast area. The car in Noel's time was a scarlet color.

I have made countless phone calls from Australia to the USA but the car's history is proving to be very very elusive.

If any of this brings a memory of the car or Noel McGlothlin / Robert Rentzell then please contact me edholly@optusnet.com.au or write to this thread.

Robert Rentzell still races - bikes - and still has his demon Bugeye Sprite from the 60s - fantastic.

Ed

[Ed Holly]

Hi thought I'd post a photo of the 21C winning its last race at Mallala SA, 900 miles from home here. The car inspecting my exhaust pipe is an Elfin Mono driven by Richard Carter, and the win by the 21C was the only time he was off the top rung of the podium in the 5 races over the Easter weekend.

Also for those that might be interested in what is happening downunder with the 1960s racing cars, I publish a newsletter 4 times a year - the latest can be found at ...

http://www.hsrca.com/wp-content/uplo...sletter-14.pdf

if you want to go on the email list to receive future ones just let me know .... if you go further back on our HSRCA website you will find No13 - covering our Tasman Revival event in Sydney which was competed in by quite a number of your countrymen.

[Ed Holly]

Bill Middleton raced a BT21C in 1971 and then went on to racing a Lola T240.

He is listed as living in Temple City CA at this time.

Does anyone know Bill or remembers this era ?

In some notes with my car it may have been traded for a Lola at one stage and if that's the case it would have been around this time, and the timeline fits with McGlothlin not using it when Middleton commences racing a BT21C ... so there is a slight chance that Middleton might have been an owner. In McGlothlin's time it appears to have been crimson in color.

Any help much appreciated. And merry Christmas all.

regards

Ed

[nomis]

Do you know Colin Haste
He is in your club and would most likely have some information to lead you down a path !
Just a thought, this car is too old to be what we Canadians call Formula Atlantic
It is what I know to be a Formula B car
I used to drive a Formula B Brabham BT19 which was converted to a 21 in both the Conference and SCCA races on the Pacific Northwest tracks
Can't say I remember your car, maybe before my time

[johnhafkenschiel]

Nomis: I would be surprised if you had a BT 19. It was a 1966 F1 car. One made. Maybe you had one of the various BT18s F2 or F3. Do you have any pictures? I can help you ID what you had. (signed, Brabham Register)

[Ed Holly]

Allen Brown - a great researcher has on his site http://www.oldracingcars.com/fb/1966/sediv/ that Noel McGlothlin was 1966 champion in the South East division in Formula B.

I have been able to acertain through Robert Rentzell that Noel passed away some years ago - but as he was obviously a regular competitor back in the 60s and early 70s is there anyone that might remember Noel ?

regards

Ed

[Dagsblondie]

Hello,

I hope that you have already rec'd the info you were asking for, but if not and if my memory serves correctly, the car you were wondering about could very probably have been Don Delamore's vehicle. He was 17 years older than I, but we lived together from late 1964-1966 and I remember his car as being a dark orangy yellow and red.

I hope this helps.

ECP

[David Irwin]

Don Delamore's Brabham, BT21C-8 now belongs to Mark Shillingburg. He has full documentation on this car.

[Ed Holly]

Hi Dave,

I wonder if you might think about my car for a bit, I am a good mate of David Kent's in fact helped him find his BT29 and had a few good runs with him before he sold it.

I must have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours trying to solve the history of my 21C, but can only get back to when Pierre Phillips had it, which I don't think he remembers, but can't blame him for that.

Bill Schlossnagel did some work on it and years ago told me he had a card with BT21C-14 with the 14 crossed out and a 12 inserted. Definitely not 12 as it was imported here many years ago, so maybe it was -14 ... if it is then it looks as though it was McGlothlin's - but except for Robert Rentzell I can't find anyone that knew him. The thought was if I could ascertain where McGlothlin's car went then maybe I could marry that to my car now.

One day I will give you a call from downunder here and say g'day. I actually have the 21C for sale but would really like to know its early history.

I have the works 63 Junior BT6 driven by Denny that year - and the history story on that is now abot 300 pages long - so it really bugs me that I never got to the bottom of AM288.

cheers

Ed