Fuel you /I can run

[matt]

So with all this fuel port stuff,what type of fuel are we not allowed to run?
Pump fuel O.K.?

[Randy Young]

An oversimplification:

Fuels containing nitrogen or oxygenated fuels are illegal. Essentially all pump gas available from your local gas station is an oxygenated fuel and illegal.

[Tom Johnson]

Succinctly put, Randy.

Matt, what you CAN run with confidence is 100LL Avgas. Get friendly with your local airport and buy it there. No matter where you go, it's always the same, super clean, and guaranteed to pass tech. Plus it's relatively cheap. I think the last time I bought it was about $1.90/gal

Unless, of course, you feel you need the 2-3 HP that ERC might give you for $14/gal!

[ennis bragg]

Will the ERC fuel pass tech? Is it legal?

[size="1"][ March 14, 2002, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: ennis bragg ][/size]

[Bullitt]

Many of the ERC fuels will (are formulated to) pass the test. As to is it legal, it's akin to the philosophic/technical question -- if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Let's see, there also is the Paul Newman line in one movie, "yes it's true but it isn't accurate." Or maybe it was "yes it's accurate, but it's not true."

Nevertheless, for the 40+ years that I have been in racing, the fact (particularly in big bucks Pro series) always has been that if tech/impound doesn't DQ or fine you then you must have been legal by the definitions and/or processes used that day. One can debate the morality/fairness of this, but it's a fact. Probably has something to do with winning being defined relatively rather than absolutely.

BTW -- the fuel rule has increased the cost of staying competitive and not done enough to improve the chemical environment of the grid or safety of the cars. However, it also probably has increased the cost of "cheating." As noted on another forum, all sanctioning bodies are struggling with fuel regulations. Something had to be done -- at least SCCA has tried. Guess I'll stick with 100LL Av Gas and be moral as well as cheap. At my age and financial position, I'm no longer that competitive at Nationals anyway.

Sorry for rambling and will stop now -- Michigan in the late Winter/early Spring is driving me crazy.

Bob Layman

[Tom Johnson]

I agree with Bob. The old Smokey Yunick axiom "It ain't cheatin' if you don't get caught" is the law of the racing world.

The inherent problem with all gasoline tech rules is that there is no strict chemical definition of "gasoline". It's not like methanol, which has exactly 'X' physical properties and will always look the same to a mass spec. Thus we get these expensive witch's brews that pass tech but don't even bear a passing resemblance to what you or I think of as gasoline.

Fortunately, this is one of those things that is an Nth degree advantage; unless you're at the top of the field anyway, it won't make a difference. And if you're at the front you can probably afford it...

[Ray Grienke]

Just a comment about 100LL. We found some instances where the FBO (guy at the airport who sells gas and other things) were not willing to sell avgas when it was not pumped into an airplane. From their perspective, you could be taking your fuel jug, pouring it into an unlicenced aircraft, crashing, and holding them liable!
It seems that the larger the airport and FBO, the more likely this will occur. Tom J. said it best; get friendly with your local FBO and he'll be much more likely to meet your needs. This also means that a quick trip to the airport on the way to the track for the first time this season may not have the outcome you desire...

[Jtovo]

I work by Midway airport in Chicago, which is a good size airport. The first place would not sell it to me. The I went to the next place...with a story all about this plane that my Dad was building in his garage and how I thought he was nuts. Anyway, I was going to visit him and try to the the thing started and he doesn't not a have a place near him.

Anyway, I still buy fuel from the guy to this day. Although he still asks about the plane and my Day...I feel a little bad.

[size="1"][ March 14, 2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Jtovo ][/size]

[ennis bragg]

The airport in my hometown has pay at the pump and there's usually nobody there at night. Last weekend, we were racing in Savannah which is just an hour from home. After testing Friday, we filled up that night around 10:00pm.

[montfort]

go to www.ridgenet.net/~hideseng/dc_list.htm
and I think anything listed a zero or negative can be used

[Tom Johnson]

My airport guys told me as long as it has wings they're willing to sell it to me!

Seriously, I think another reason they won't sell is it doesn't have the appropriate taxes included for use in highway vehicles. Does that sound right?

[Mike B]

Tom et al,
This thread has a familiar ring to it. Not sure if it was here, maybe it was on the FFU. Anyhoo, it was decided (amongst us girls) that it is legal to sell Avgas to us because it is for off-road use. There is nothing illegal about it, as long as you can prove it. You may have difficulty convincing the person at the airport that you're right.
Here at Green Bay International, the guy I buy it from is a Road America season ticket holder,is fully aware of what I use it for, and wishes me luck each time I stop in. I even had a really good excuse the first time I went there, but not as good as Joe's, though.

[Randy Young]

There's also an Aug 2 2001 AvGas thread under "Engine".

Randy

[matt]

So what is the problem with running pump gas?
Does anyone local to me now where the best place to buy the av fuel is?
This is all new to me just bought my car a few months ago and everone i had talked to then told me i could run 93 to save money (it would maybe cost a few hp. )and that was what i was going to do because this is for fun a few hp. is worth it.93 you can get almost anywhere around me and it runs about $1.20 to $1.40,so the difference will add up when you run a tight budget.
What can i say i would rather biggy size my meal,
at least right now.

[DaveW]

Almost all pump gas is oxygenated and therefore illegal for "real race cars" according to the SCCA rules. If you are running solos or time trials, you can run 93-octane pump gas, but you do risk detonation and burned or warped valves and valve seats if your mixture is anywhere close to "lean best power" where these engines run best.

[size="1"][ March 15, 2002, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: DaveW ][/size]

[Rex Gunning]

We've used AV-GAS for years because we know we're getting a consistant 100 octane and a clean product. When single engine aiplane engines quit in flight the FAA gets a little excited cause it's not like you can pull over on a cloud or something thus the tight control of what the stuff actually consist of. We've also had pretty good results on the DYNO using the stuff. What's the latest word on TURBO BLUE. Is it still legal?