MyChron 3 questions...

[carnut169]

Just got a MyChron 3 Gold XG and after reading the manual I have a few questions:
1. Installation instructions are vague... any general recommendations from someone who has installed one of these?
2. Came with a box of wires and sensors... most of which I've figured out but some...?
-white cord, threaded metal end with two bolts...?
-black cord with white, black and blue wires?
-rca type (kinda) plug with a black wire & black wire with a white stripe that ends with two plastic clips (red and black)?
-and what looks like a egt sensor... I should have a H2O temp sensor instead...right?

Which sensor is for speed... is it optional? According to the manual it reads gear teeth... not in the LD200...right?

Holy cow this seems like a lot of work.
Good thing I've got a couple months!

Any suggestions would be appreciated.-

[Scott Gesford]

Sean, when you figure it out tell me. I got mine in the fall and haven't installed it yet.
Here's a name to call given to me by the guy I bought my dash from.
Mike Mcknight 640-342-9680. He's a Mychron guy and I've heard they are very helpful.
I know Curtis Boggs has one also but he probably got Langbine to install it.

[Don Conner]

I might be able to help.

(white cord w/treaded metal end)
I'm guessing you mean nuts not bolts
if so it would be the wheelspeed sensor
their are 2 types, one for a magnet trigger
the other senses a ferrous metal object as
a trigger, if yours didn't come with a magnet
it's probably the ferrous trigger vesion.
If it is you could simply mount it so that
your CV joint bolts or hub bolts pass by it
as a trigger.

(black w/white black & blue wires)
RPM cable
black - ground
white - rpm signal from an ECU
blue - rpm signal from coil

I just installed one with a crane ignition unit
that has a tach output and used the blue wire
connected to the tach output

(rca like plug w/ blk &red)

power wire for an external battery for the
trackside beacon.

also as far as the beacon goes they seem to
send them out set at 20ft output distance
it should have 2 led's on the front one for
power on and one marked 20m 60ft, if only
the power one lights up when you turn it on
take it apart and their is a tiny jumper about
1/4 in wide and 1/8 in thick pull it off and
reinstall so it connects both pins instead of
just sitting on one

(egt-like sensor)

probably the water temp.
AIM uses thermocouple type sensors for their
temp sensors instead of the bulky auto style
sensors that are typical

Hope this helps

Don Conner

[carnut169]

Big help Don. Thanks.
I should have done this to begin with but...

1 extension cords
2 data cord
3 ??
4 water temp? looks like a photo of the egt
5 speed? looks nothing like the one in the book
6 rpm?
7 power for beacon
8 some kind of rpm filter complete w/vague instructions [img]smile.gif[/img]
9 beacon receiver
The dash has 4 analog inputs plus speed, gear, beacon, and rpm. If water temp is one... what should the other 3 be? Oil pressure? Brake? Steering? EGT(do we really need this)? Other suggestions? Also, the manual talks about measuring the gear the speed sensor is 'reading'.... it can just be a bolt?
Crazy stuff.

[David Ferguson]

Sean,

Where is your AIM dealer? He should be able to help with these types of questions!

Your parts:
1 - extension cables for presssure or temperature sensors. These are available in .5 meter increments from 1.5 to 4.0 meters.
2- USB download cable. The USB A-connector goes to your computer (or USB hub), and the round binder connector connects to the dash (connector is under the little AIM cover in the center below the display).
3 - Power cord. You connect this to 12V power, and the round connector goes to your AIM junction box.
4 - Temperature. Uses an M5 thread, you usually need to get a plug that fits your water or oil system, and drill & tap for an M5 thread. The sensor type is RTD (not a thermocouple as described above).
5 - Wheelspeed sensor. You will have a small magnet mounted to a stud that is used to trigger this sensor. We usually mount the magnet to a rear CV, and make a small bracket that hangs off one of the gearbox side plate studs.
6 - RPM connection -- typically you will use the 0-50 volt connection to the negative side of your coil. This is the trickiest part of an AIM installation. We often make little RC filters to get it to work now that all the cars are using contactless ignition triggers. AIM has an active filter that we are waiting for that might be just the ticket.
7 - External Beacon power cord. Be sure to make the change to high-power as described above.
8 - RPM filter - useful when connecting to some types of ignitions boxes (MSD?). It has never help any of our customers with a 1600 or 2L engines.
9 - Beacon receiver. We typically have to extend the length of this for most customers. The cable is barely long enough to mount the receiver at the top of the cowling if the junction box is mounted directly below on the floor.

What I don't see is a pressure sensor, or leads. The AIM Mychron 3 can work with a VDO automotive grade sensor, or others (they are currently supplying a small unit from MSI).

Your Mychron 3 can be setup to display/log 4 analog channels, typically you will have one temp (water or oil), and oil pressure. You can add another temp sensor, and we find that many folks want a throttle position sensor for the 4th input. Other options are steering, or EGT (or connection to a wide-band lambda device).

Your LD200 doesn't have provision for a gear sensor (most sequential boxes do), so you will have to use the "calculated gear" if you want that feature. The dash figures out the gear by dividing the RPM by the Wheelspeed. It will work fine, once you have good solid reading for those two inputs.

David Feguson
Veracity Racing Data

[carnut169]

I think I know where I'll be buying the additional sensors....
Thanks David.

[ChrisInAtlanta]

I just completed the install of a slightly higher end version of this AIM system, an Evo3 Drack 8, with a Mychron 3 display. I have been working at it for about three months. I learned yesterday that AIM has revised the firmware to fix a problem I have been having (inability to display max EGT's, though this data is saved and downloads), but do not have the cable to connect to the display (in my system I download via a separate unit, different cable).

A good place to ask questions about Data Acquisition in general, or these units in particular, is a forum (moderated by David, I think) at:

http://pub6.ezboard.com/fs2racingfrm4

As I learn more about these systems, I strengthen my belief that all of these systems are 'experimental' in nature. As in, hard to install, difficult to use, and hard to keep running. Though AIM may be the best bang for the buck right now.

It seems that you need a true handyman, genius general shop guy to install them. Are you are in Atlanta? The guy who installed my system is an hour east of town, he'd be happy to help you if you need it. email me at MCoupe 'at' earthlink.net.

It takes a while to get these things sorted out. For example, my rpm's were weird until I routed the cable FAR away from any of the other cables. Clips onto the spark wire on my unit. I apparantly need to calibrate the accelerometers every other event, quick and easy to do.

Mike McKnight may be of help, he is the AIM rep on the east coast, in Virginia. He is out until Tuesday. But call him (the number I have for him is 540-342-9680). Though the depth of experience of any of these folks ends pretty quickly, all have tried earnestly to the best of their ability.

David asked a good question, where is your dealer? I chose the guy who seemed the most knowledgeable, but chose wrong. I am a bit upset at the moment, as you can no doubt tell. Not at AIM or my dealer, or what or even how the unit does, but rather that I should have been told I would need this cable three months ago, in preparation for the firmware change. A mere detail in the scheme of things. . .

Good luck! < g >

[carnut169]

Thanks for the info Chris... although its not all that encouraging. Shop genius I'm not. Hopefully with the help of the folks here and some common sense I'll get it in.... we shall see....

[Ian McKechnie]

We got our MyChron 3 Gold XG from Dave Ferguson and installed everything ourselves without much of a problem. We received the water temp and oil pressure sensors with the system. Dave spliced one of the sensor wires to reach the data box. One of the other sensors that we got needed to be longer, so I spliced it myself on the kitchen table. We have Buddy Fey's book which states that at a minimum, sensors for MPH, RPM, Throttle position, Steering angle, Lateral G's and Longitudinal G's be used. As our AIM system only allows five of these, we chose to use all but Longitudinal G's. Buddy's book explains the use of only these six sensors in analyzing car control so has been very helpful in the learning process. I would like to have had the Longitudinal G's also, but we have been doing well with the other five. Besides, you only need the Lateral G's and MPH to draw a track map with all the turns and straights color coded (and if you print them the turns numbered). This is enough data to use the many different ways the analysis program can display data. It is also sufficient data to be able to do a lot of analysis at the track and not be swamped by information. After all most of us are not trained data acquisition engineers, even if some of us have an engineering degree, and are probably the ones that have to make the changes to the car as well. There is only so much time between sessions. We use a laptop to both program the system and download the data. We then can look at it between sessions before deciding what changes to make. I also bought a cheep printer that we take with us. As we did not get the system until near the end of the racing season and are new to data acquisition, I am doing a lot of practicing over the winter analyzing the data that we took and finding the various capabilities of the Race Studio 2 analysis program.

[TimW]

Regarding dropping your longitudinal accelerometer, you can always determine this by calculating the numerical derivative of the speed. You'll be surprised how low the acceleration is, and even how low deceleration is compared to lateral G's, but after that its really not much use.

You'd think you'd be able to tell how much better your engine is pulling by looking at long g's but in reality the more discerning indication of that is top speed at end of straight, and analyzing how the two speed traces separate. The variance in long g's will be within the noise threshold, where as the difference in actual speed and visually comparing slopes (visual derivative?) will be more valuable.

Tim

[Curtis Boggs]

Sean,

I had my system installed and working in about two hours, .. it's MUCH easier then it may look.

Call me if you need help, .. 703-541-0565
or better yet, .. call Dave, .. the master of all data, ..

Curtis
RFD

[carnut169]

Now that is encouraging!
Did you make brackets to hold all the sensors? Which sensors did you install? Where did you put the beacon receiver? How did you rig up the speed sensor? Tell us more!

[Curtis Boggs]

Originally posted by carnut169:
Now that is encouraging!
Did you make brackets to hold all the sensors? Which sensors did you install? Where did you put the beacon receiver? How did you rig up the speed sensor? Tell us more!

wowe dude, .. slow down, .. .. [img]smile.gif[/img]

OK, .. I used the VDO temp and pressure senders that where in the car, .. the temp has been off by a few degrees but it's predictable. The Oil pres needed a cable with some kinda resistor to read correctly, .. swapped the cable Aim sent and it worked fine.
The software allows you to select the sensors you use, ..
pres was a VDO 1-10 bar.
The speed, .. made a little "L" braket and drilled & tapped into the front upright. Drilled & tapped the back of the stub axle to mount the magnet.
The beacon receiver got duck taped to the top of the roll bar, .. so I could turn it around for tracks with the pits on the outside.
Ran power to the switch on the dash that used to run the Stack dash, ..

easy, ..

Next I'm adding a throttle & steering sensor, .. to the new car that is.
In the new car I'm going to use the Aim water temp sender, .. take the plug I have in the water pump outlet and drill & tap there.

Curtis

[carnut169]

Can't help it... all I've been hearing is what a nightmare its going to be....
I'm sure Scott is also happy to hear about your experience.

Drilled & tapped the back of the stub axle to mount the magnet.

I'd love to see a photo of this, if possible.

[Curtis Boggs]

Sean,

I'll get you photo over the next day or two, ..

and yes Scott I DID install it myself, .. see, .. I can do something besides grind holes in cylinder heads, .. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Curtis

[carnut169]

I talked to a couple people yesterday who said that for me, I should stick with the basic inputs and worry about throttle/ steering/ brake sensors later if I want to. Learning the system is hard enough without being overwhelmed with info. They said the throttle might never be needed in a 2 liter car as we are almost always on the floor...
what do you folks think about this?
Also... if the cables are too short (say for the beacon receiver) can I splice in more wire? Would it be better to let David do it?

[Ian McKechnie]

Although we have steering and throttle sensors, I agree with those other people. You can still get information from the rpm and speed traces, as they will show when gear changes are taking place and about when the throttle is depressed. You can always assess the need for those extra sensors and add them at a later time.
Yes, you can splice more wire yourself. A good relatively small wattage soldering iron and heat shrinkable tubing will help a lot. None of the AIM wires are shielded, so it is easy. The diameter of the individual wires is very small, so I used small ID shrink tubing over each solder joint to insulate them from each other, and larger ID shrink tubing as an overwrap.

Another thing that you need to do, and what is one of the strengths of the AIM system, is to go to their web site and download all of their manuals and data sheets for the system and sensors. Also, even if you have recently received your system, the programs have probably been updated and these are on line also. Every now and then, I check their site for the latest firmware and analysis versions. We have updated both our firmware and analysis programs a couple of times. They also have a downloadable file that gives the history of the changes that have been made.

One other thing I found which might be of some help. You can change the name of the channel, so that instead of numbers, etc., you can use the name of the sensor that is connected to that channel. We use: Engine, Speed, Water Temp, Oil Pressure, Steering, Throttle, Gear, Lateral G, Datalogger Temp and Battery. All you have to do is click on the channels button in the system manager of the Race Studio 2 program, then doubble click on each channel name and put in what you want. (take care and make sure that it is the correct channel) Then transmit the data into the datalogger. The names you chose will appear when you use the analysis program.

[Purple Frog]

K.I.S.S.
Walk before you run.
Add a sensor at a time.
Patience young tadpole...

Ahhhh... but, but...Tadpole says throttle sensor not important, because foot always on floor.

Ahhhh so, says the Frog, but is foot really always on floor? or does tadpole's brain think it is?... only the data acquistion knows for sure.

Data acquistion can cause a humbling awakening. But, if you turn off the ego and study, it can, with work, help you to go much faster.

[GT1Vette]

Sean,

We've got more room, but the Corvette has wheel speed, RPM, throttle position, steering position, lat & long G's and ride height at each corner (and yes, it WAS interesting to see engine RPM go up and wheel speed go down at the start of the ARRC). I paid Duane Neyer (of CDS) to come to town and install everything, then brought him to the track to first two years to help interpret it. That was probably overkill, but it also shortened the learning curve considerably.

I'm not sure that data acquisition has shown me major things that I didn't already suspect, but it goes a long way toward confirming what I THINK I'm feeling from behind the wheel. And the driver having confidence in what s/he's experiencing gains you at least a second a lap.

[carnut169]

Thanks guys.
I've started the install and it won't be complete in two hours... it took longer than that to fab the first aluminum mount (but it came out great). I'll post photos and show how I did it when its complete- hopefully that will help guys like Scott get it done...
(I still think it would be cool for this BBS to have a how-to section with technical articles. Everything from changing the oil to gear changes to head removal... from a new guys perspective it would shorten the learning curve dramatically. All it would take is for the experienced guys like Master Frog to take some photos and explain why they are doing what they are doing... these cars don't come with owners manuals and Chilton just won't make a guide )

[carnut169]

Few more questions...
Do you guys think I sould leave the old gauges in place or remove them?
Use existing wire or rewire it? How many volts does the coil put out on the (+) tab? What is the very best way to connect wires to each other and to things like the coil? Lastly, what gauge wires... is heavier better to a point? (for gauges)
BTW- box has been mounted in the nose to the frame rails (sits on top), the display has been mounted to the wheel, and the speed sensor is done. The beacon receiver is ready for a perm install- getting close...

[Michael Jaynes]

It looks like I'm a little late to the thread/site, as some good answers and solutions have been given.

Now here, I'd be happy to answer any lingering questions.

ChrisInAtlanta - call or send me an email and I'll take care of the cable for updating the firmware on your M3 display. If you call the 800 number, being in Atlanta you will get our office in Virginia, they can transfer you to me here in California, or call after 5:00PM local time and the your call will ring here.

carnut169 - as noted, the speed sensor you received is proximity sensor and senses a ferrous target, with a max sensing distance of about 1.5mm. Our standard sensor is a magneto resistive type that uses a magnet as a target and has a max sensing distance of 10-20mm. Your kit would have had to have been special ordered to receive the sensor you did.

Michael Jaynes
AIM Sports, LLC

[carnut169]

Not too late at all Michael. Just finished installing everything tonight. All in all I would say it is quite easy... not a two hour job but its kinda fun to mess around with getting it "right". I still need to find an oil pressure sending unit and install the water temp sensor but the motor is out so I'm waiting anyway. Installed the box in the nose over the frame rails. Made the bracket out of aluminum- bent it with a vice and a broom handle. I installed the beacon reciever on a side frame rail with a hole in the side for it to see the beacon instead of putting it on top. Speed sensor was easy as the bracket was already there. You can see the magnet in the hub above the sensor. The whole system is switched...

[Michael Jaynes]

Originally posted by carnut169:
Not too late at all Michael. Just finished installing everything tonight. All in all I would say it is quite easy...

Speed sensor was easy as the bracket was already there. You can see the magnet in the hub above the sensor. The whole system is switched...

Sean,

Being that you received the proximity sensor rather than the magneto-resitive sensor, a magnet for a target is not necessary, you can use the brake disk bolts.

Here's the advantages and disadvantages of each;

Magneto-resistive; great sensing distance at 10-20mm - seems to be more robust and less prone to failure, but requires a magnet or magnets for a target, and a magnet is no longer a magnet at 270° C and the signal seems to weaken at higher temperatures.

Proximity sensor; requires only a ferrous target or targets, like your brake disk bolts (illustrated below). And note that having more targets gives a better resolution. The proximity sensor requires a sensing distance of about 1-2mm, depending on the amount of iron content in the target. The proximity switch you have is easier to troubleshoot because of the LED in the back of the sensor. While powered on, the sensor will glow orange, when a target is in front of the sensor the LED brightness will visibly increase to indicate that the target is in range.

You can surely use the sensor you have or if you'd prefer the magneto-resistive one, we'd be happy to exchange it for you.

Michael Jaynes
AIM Sports, LLC

[carnut169]

So should I pivet the sensor to read the bolts (or ferrous target in pic) and forget about the magnet? There are a bunch of them....

Any ideas about the oil pressure sending unit? Apparently you (Aim) are changing the sending unit type?

I'm going to mess around with the programming tonight....

[Michael Jaynes]

Originally posted by carnut169:
So should I pivet the sensor to read the bolts (or ferrous target in pic) and forget about the magnet? There are a bunch of them....

Any ideas about the oil pressure sending unit? Apparently you (Aim) are changing the sending unit type?

I'm going to mess around with the programming tonight....

Using that sensor I would recommend the brake disk bolts, a bunch of them? 4? 6?

Oil pressure; you should have received either two temps with your gauge or one pressure and one temp. Standard with the pressure option was/is a VDO oil pressure sensor, however because we bought 1000 pieces of a 'good' sensor to get better pricing, we have been substituting the VDO with the new 'good' sensor. One drawback to the new sensor is that is requires creating a custom sensor within the software, this until we add it to the pre-defined sensor library. There may also be a limit to the number of these new pressure sensors we can use at one time because of power draw.

If you run in to any questions while configuring your logger, please call. If it's after business hours, you can call my mobile phone at (909) 551-6622.

Michael Jaynes
AIM Sports, LLC