2012 US Grand Prix - In Austin TX?!

[VehDyn]

I am a little worried about the braking zones as Vettel may hit someone. Also, I am a little worried about the straightaways as Vettel may hit someone. Other than that, it looks great.

Sorry, Seb, can't help but pile on.

[iamuwere]

I am ready to make the haul to drive it! Looks fun.

[mmi16]

Runoffs 2012?

[Stan Clayton]

Runoffs 2012?

I'm in!!!

[iamuwere]

I'm in!!!

Sounds good to me.

[bluedogok]

Here's the local newspaper story about it with a couple of graphics.
Statesman.com - Promoter unveils F1 track layout

[Ted Idlof]

http://jalopnik.com/5640308/county-c...nd-prix-lawyer

Those commissioners obviously havent' gotten their good ole' boy Texas pay off yet. Someone dropped the ball.

I had to laugh when I heard these:

1) the County Commission is just hearing about this now; no skids greasing necessary?

2) the design team is not in place yet.

3) cost/benefit analysis??? You mean Austin may not pay the entire bill and give Bernie all the income??? Oh, Bernie's not going to like that !!!

4) using terms like "we think" and "it's going to work" thru some "uncoventional process" County staff are going

5) "we think traffic can be handled with an (one) additional lane and traffic management." ROFLMAO (stop it you're killing me)

6) no mention of killing all the lawyers (that's the only way to expedite)

7) I wonder if the Ron Paul guy was on his staff???

My prediction of 2016 is feeling kind of optimistic right now.

[mousecatcher]

ruh-roh

[TimW]

From the October FasTrak

Runoffs 2012 - Need to start discussing process. Current contract runs thru 2011. Need to determine if we want to extend current venue or pursue new venue. Some discussion about possibility of Austin.

[John Duke]

Why not? Nice weather, nice food, nice music, nice track...and everyone gets bragging rights as having driven on the same track as the F1 champ! I can hear it now..."coulda woulda shoulda"

It sure as heck beats Kansas!

My offer is still open from an earlier post...

[turnbaugh]

Coss your fingers. There is a meeting with the Enviromental Board tomorrow.

One of the board members sports a Sierra Club email address.

[DB4 Tim]

I would think by now they should have had those type of problems worked out.

[Ted Idlof]

I would think by now they should have had those type of problems worked out.

Based on what "they" (Mr. Big Hat No Cattle) said less than 2 months ago, (post #87) they would be lucky to have had one meeting with the Environmental Board by now. Of course, I keep being told "this is Texas," so if a truck load of money has been deposited in some untraceable off-shore account somewhere, then maybe the problems are worked out. And that's assuming this is a state Board, not the Feds.

Curmudgeon Central over and out

[turnbaugh]

It is the county board. (Smaller truckload of money needed)

[Frank C]

Nick Craw and Tim Mayer, representing the FIA, visited the track site and met with some local officials and the track developer recently.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../11/11456.html

- Frank C

Edit - In response to Ted's post below, if one reads the article, the developer does not want the proposed deadline of having the track ready 90 days before the event.

[Ted Idlof]

Nick Craw and Tim Mayer, representing the FIA, visited the track site and met with some local officials and the track developer recently.

I wonder if they discussed lessons learned from Korea, like if and how they will build the surrounding (off-site) public infrastructure on time?

[sauce_racer]

Seriously?

I don't think it has anything to do with keeping Austin weird.. it's F1..


Austin itself may not be motorsport material just yet, but it sure has the potential. With lots of racing enthusiasts within a few hours away I'm sure the event will be a hit. I'm sure lots of other fans from all over will make arrangements to be at the event.

And I like the idea of Runoff's 2012.. Makes for a short triP!

Meg

[Ted Idlof]

I don't think it has anything to do with keeping Austin weird.. it's F1..

If I was a bit too short or crypic, I was referring to the huge (did I hear 20 miles long?) traffic jam with fans still trying to get to the Korean track after the race had started.

The challenge of completing large projects is not with the design engnieers or construction contractors, it is about dealing with the neighbors, the state DOT and other stakeholders who either could care less about or are adamently against the project. Handling traffic jams will be only one issue of several comparable to building a new airport or plopping a new football stadium in a new area. How do you move and service 100,000 people in a short time frame? Doesn't fall into place easily.

I wish them the best of luck but after seeing that clueless lawyer in front of the County Commissioners, I can't get my hopes up.

[Frank C]

Ted:
I think Austin does have some experience with the logistics of traffic with the UT Austin football games.

Megan:
What are the odds that the 2012 US GP in Austin will have a greater attendance than, say, a UT - TAMU football game?

- Frank C

[Ty_Handke_83]

So you mean they don't want to have a 1 hours rain delay to allow fans to get to their seats?

It's the same at a lot of tracks though. If you've ever been to the Canadian GP (Extreme example), it takes about half an hour to get from the Metro to the farthest seats (if you get there early), and well over 2 hours, maybe even 3 to get from those seats, and back onto the train for the trip back to the main city. 75-80 thousand fans, volunteers, support race crew, all with basically one way out.

Monza isn't as bad, but it's still a mess after the race. When I lived there, I walked the ~2km back to my apartment faster than had I drove, and I stayed for the Podium celebration and all that.

The mass exodous from almost any track or major sporting event will clog things up, no matter where you are.

[cooleyjb]

Ted:
I think Austin does have some experience with the logistics of traffic with the UT Austin football games.

Megan:
What are the odds that the 2012 US GP in Austin will have a greater attendance than, say, a UT - TAMU football game?

- Frank C

VERY different logistics. A significant portion are students who walk from their houses to the game. The stadium is in a central location with multiple points of ingress/egress while the track is outside of town and nearly everyone will be coming and going from the race in the same directions on only a few possible roads. Unless they can get a major number of people to come from the other direction it's going to be a cluster in the traffic sense.

I hope it happens but remain highly skeptical thanks to the huge differences between the US and that of the countries that have barely gotten their own racetracks completed in time.

[Ted Idlof]

Ted:
I think Austin does have some experience with the logistics of traffic with the UT Austin football games..............
- Frank C

Well that only means that the City, County and State know all too well that nothing is as easy as it first appears.

But flippancy aside, each project is a unique challenge and although experience may help it doesn't mean the amount of work is any less. And to reiterate the real point one more time, there are neighbors, commuters, tree huggers and just plain nuts who will lawyer up and stall the permits in court for far too long. It's not logical or fair, it's the legal system and just a fact of life for high profile projects in the US. Even Texas.

[TimW]

Well that only means that the City, County and State know all too well that nothing is as easy as it first appears.

But flippancy aside, each project is a unique challenge and although experience may help it doesn't mean the amount of work is any less. And to reiterate the real point one more time, there are neighbors, commuters, tree huggers and just plain nuts who will lawyer up and stall the permits in court for far too long. It's not logical or fair, it's the legal system and just a fact of life for high profile projects in the US. Even Texas.

Perhaps they just need a new mayor!! Ours can plow under the runways after midnight at a municipal airport and then inform the FAA. Or decide to fund a new lakefront spaceship, er stadium without any public input. To which his response was 'why should we spend all that money for hearings when we are just going to execute our plan anyway?'. At least he's honest about not caring what anybody else thinks.

Seems to me if using the right wax in the right city there could be a USGP again.

[turnbaugh]

Wednesday evening, the City of Austin's environmental board became the first city entity to approve site plans for Formula 1 developers. The questions some are asking is, will the project get off the ground by its completion date of June 2012?
The meeting was the first of many city boards and commissions which F1 developers will be attending to get approval on the project. The project is standard procedure.
"Essentially, the city code requires if you're going to move more than four feet of dirt, you've got to have it reviewed," said Richard Suttle, an attorney for the F1 promoters.
Suttle told KVUE News on Wednesay that reports about the world class racetrack in Elroy being six months behind schedule are not true.
"This project is on track, it's on schedule with the help from the city and the county that we've (received)," said Suttle. "We've been able to stay on track and we're definitely on schedule, if not ahead."
F1 promoters have another public hearing next week with the water and wastewater commission. They will have a meeting with the zoning and planning commission in two weeks.

[John Duke]

VERY different logistics. A significant portion are students who walk from their houses to the game. The stadium is in a central location with multiple points of ingress/egress while the track is outside of town and nearly everyone will be coming and going from the race in the same directions on only a few possible roads. Unless they can get a major number of people to come from the other direction it's going to be a cluster in the traffic sense.

I hope it happens but remain highly skeptical thanks to the huge differences between the US and that of the countries that have barely gotten their own racetracks completed in time.

According to http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16693...rth-Austin-TX/ This one intersection has a daily vehicle count of 220,000.

Exactly how many cars do you naysayers think we need to move down here in Texas to get you all comfortable?

My original offer still stands...no takers so far... (see earlier post this thread)

[Ted Idlof]

My original offer still stands...no takers so far... (see earlier post this thread)

John, LOL, if you want me to pay attention, you should be giving 5:1 instead of asking for 5:1. Give me some reasonable odds and I'll take that 2012 bet.

[John Duke]

John, LOL, if you want me to pay attention, you should be giving 5:1 instead of asking for 5:1. Give me some reasonable odds and I'll take that 2012 bet.

I don't know Ted, it seems to me that the onus is on those who are so sure that it is not going to happen...

If one is that sure it isn't going to happen, one would only be taking my money at no real risk regardless of the odds!

If on the other hand... well, after all this negative talk, those who have played should be the ones to pay! They will certainly be recorded here and will have egg on their faces.

Just call it Texas Hold 'em...

...as I said in my original post...I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, anybody else?

[Ted Idlof]

You need odds? OK, I'll see your odds and raise you 10 fold. Let the record reflect that I will pay you $50 if the race is held in Austin in 2012. If it is not, I'll expect, not $1, but a post acknowledging that the Texans couldn't kill enough lawyers to get it done.

Everyone got that?

[John Duke]

DEAL!

...and I will contribute the $50 to Apex Speed for providing such a great forum.

[sauce_racer]

Well that only means that the City, County and State know all too well that nothing is as easy as it first appears.

But flippancy aside, each project is a unique challenge and although experience may help it doesn't mean the amount of work is any less. And to reiterate the real point one more time, there are neighbors, commuters, tree huggers and just plain nuts who will lawyer up and stall the permits in court for far too long. It's not logical or fair, it's the legal system and just a fact of life for high profile projects in the US. Even Texas.

This is Texas, you can joke but we take our Football very personal. You've seen the big sold out stands for the UT vs. TAMU game? Or for the UT vs OU? Yeah I know football and racing are completely different but still.

I think the USGP wouldn't be in downtown... So that might eliminate some of the parking issues. Trust me broken beer bottles on sixth st don't help with those nice fancy tires. Also, tree huggers... yeah they exist in Austin, but for the most part the rich people of Austin would probably be able to shut them off pretty easily. And plus if a tree hugger really cares about the trees, why are they living in Austin?

I'm not saying it will happen, but if it does I don't think that it will be in downtown, right next to the huge stadium for the Longhorns. That has the possiblity of eliminating some factors.

[Steve Demeter]

Texcas, the state in which it is legal to shoot anyone who you think is threatening your property can't kill enough lawyers??

All lawyers fall into that category..

apologies to the lawyers on this forum.

you are not included in that group.

[bluedogok]

This is Texas, you can joke but we take our Football very personal. You've seen the big sold out stands for the UT vs. TAMU game? Or for the UT vs OU? Yeah I know football and racing are completely different but still.

Sorry, that would be OU-Texas (a Sooner in Austin here)

I think the USGP wouldn't be in downtown... So that might eliminate some of the parking issues. Trust me broken beer bottles on sixth st don't help with those nice fancy tires. Also, tree huggers... yeah they exist in Austin, but for the most part the rich people of Austin would probably be able to shut them off pretty easily. And plus if a tree hugger really cares about the trees, why are they living in Austin?

Most of the tree huggers seem to only care about everything west of I-35 and have tended to ignore everything east of I-35, of course if you ask some of those residents of East Austin and Eastern Travis County they would say that no one in the city cares much about anything east of I-35. Where you really run into the problems with the environmental types it is in Southwest Austin in the recharge zone of the Barton Creek Watershed into the Edwards Aquifer where we are limited to a 15% impervious cover restriction. The City of Austin has a mlimited say over the Elroy track location, it is in the CoA ETJ (extraterritorial jurisdiction) so many of the reviews that would take place for a project in the city do not happen, mostly the reviews are for environmental impact and watershed. The county has even less review of the projects. That is also mostly rural farm land out there, not that many neighbors to placate and most seem to be more in favor of the track than they were the thousands of homes that was in the original proposal for that land.

I'm not saying it will happen, but if it does I don't think that it will be in downtown, right next to the huge stadium for the Longhorns. That has the possiblity of eliminating some factors.

Getting out of any large attendance event is an issue, whether it is the 100,000 at DKR (UT stadium), Cowboys Stadium (between 80-100K) or Texas Motor Speedway near Fort Worth. We went to the OU-BYU game at Cowboys Stadium last year with 70-80,000 in attendance and it took almost two hours to get out of there, at a Cowboys preseason game this year with less than that and a much longer walk it took about 45 minutes due to the fact that most of the crowd had left earlier. When we went to the 2007 USGP at Indy it took about an hour and a half to get back to our hotel near the airport. The Elroy location is close to the 130 toll road and Hwy 71, I would imagine the access point would be from there and 71, once out of the immediate area it should be a breeze until you get to I-35. People spend an hour each way everyday in rush hour traffic but gripe about spending that same amount of time out getting out of a large event. Anytime you have a large group of people heading to and from the same place it is going to create a traffic jam, that is just a fact of life.

[John Duke]

Below is the sporting offer I made on July 27 2010

While the race hasn't yet happened see the link to hear the latest from Charlie Whiting, who knows something about what his lying eyes are seeing. Not only has the track been built and paved well in advance of the race, it has been pronounced VERY GOOD and without any problems from the FIA's point of view.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns24487.html

Well, we'll see those of you who believed enough to buy tickets early there and have those who didn't believe it could happen watch us on TV... just sayin' as I said in 2010, when it comes to getting things done in Texas, I'll call your bovine excrement and raise you with real legal tender. Oh yeah, there was only one taker...

Ted? Are you still out there??? You can deduct the $50 from my winnings at 10 times 10:1... So if I have it right that will be $50x10x10=5,000 less 50 to ApexSpeed due on Monday after the race takes place. Contact me here or privately to make arrangements for the transfer.

THANK YOU APEX SPEED...and Ted

In the interest of making this thread a bit more interesting while reducing some of the negative vibe, I am willing to take bets with those who don't think this will happen, #1 in 2012 or #2 at all.

Someone earlier mentioned odds of 1 in 7 so I will start by taking those odds on position #2 and arbitrarily put odds a bit greater for openers on position #1 at 12:1. So, for those who are interested in a little side bet, I will post $1 into a designated Paypal account in the keeping of my attorney for every $7 or $12 (depending on which position you choose) that you are willing to put in. In fact, since I am feeling confident that this will happen after todays announcement, I will lower the wager from 7:1 to 5:1 and from 12:1 to 10:1.

The winner will receive the losers wager for position 1 on the day after the race date in 2012 (TBA) or in lieu of a scheduled date, on the day after the final race date of the 2012 season.

Since I am not yet wealthy as George Soros, I will reserve the right to limit my side of the bet to an as yet unspecified amount and will not take any bets after January 1, 2011 or the announcement of the 2012 schedule, whichever comes first.

So, whose feeling lucky now? Who REALLY believes this cannot be done in Texas? Enough bovine feces, let's let our money do the talking and flex our jaws on other topics.

[kea]

I'm glad to see it happen.
I stopped by (outside the construction area)last fall when I was visiting my nephew, just after construction had re-started and saw the potential of a really great track layout.
I got a little more insight while talking to Bob Pierson this summer, on what it took to actually lay the track surface.
Much more work that I could have imagined.

[John Duke]

Right you are Keith. It is a monumental task to build something of this magnitude.

This is yet another example of can-do Texas attitude and action. It is why this state is one of the best and greatest in our great country. Not bragging if it is true...and it is true.

To quote Charlie Whiting, "Turn one is AWESOME!"

[Ted Idlof]

Yep, John I'm still here. Send me your address for your $50 check which I will gladly write.

Hats off to all the many and varied parties locally and around the country who did an incredible job to pull this off. Including Tavo for getting it off the ground and then not stopping it in court when he got his pants taken down. And to Bernie for not jacking the deal around the way he can do.

Anyway, it was a reasonable bet 2+ years ago because all the issues and obstacles were in place to make this success a long shot. Just as I would've bet in February against Alonzo winning the 2012 WDC. Miracles do happen and it's well worth a few bucks to be wrong for something like this.

I certainly hope the drivers like the track as much as Whiting and that it showcases the U.S. to the F-1 world.

P.S. I think I owe someone else $50 as well. I'll have to look for that info. Let me know if you're the guy.

[RussMcB]

P.S. I think I owe someone else $50 as well. I'll have to look for that info. Let me know if you're the guy.

It was me.

[Canadian Formula 3 Championship]

It's great to see a purpose-built Formula 1 spec track here in the United States. For anyone thinking of attending, here is a press release warning race fans on what NOT to bring to the race track.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2012/09/28/n...#comment-39440

Some of the items listed are what we would all consider absolute necessities. My only complaint, I can't bring my cooler full of damn!

[John Duke]

Yep, John I'm still here. Send me your address for your $50 check which I will gladly write.

Hats off to all the many and varied parties locally and around the country who did an incredible job to pull this off. Including Tavo for getting it off the ground and then not stopping it in court when he got his pants taken down. And to Bernie for not jacking the deal around the way he can do.

Anyway, it was a reasonable bet 2+ years ago because all the issues and obstacles were in place to make this success a long shot. Just as I would've bet in February against Alonzo winning the 2012 WDC. Miracles do happen and it's well worth a few bucks to be wrong for something like this.

I certainly hope the drivers like the track as much as Whiting and that it showcases the U.S. to the F-1 world.

P.S. I think I owe someone else $50 as well. I'll have to look for that info. Let me know if you're the guy.

Well, as you might expect the address is in Texas but I'm still in for my original deal with you. Send the money to ApexSpeed and we're good. Thanks for being a good sport. Maybe Russ will give you the same deal and we all win!

Best,

John