header

[jerry freeman]

I've been shopping around for a header (tired of building things) and was wondering why Stohr and Firman use stainless steel? Seems to me that there is a lighter cheaper way to go.

Jerry

[starkejt]

Lighter? Sure. Cheaper? Sure. Both? Not sure what that would be....

[RobLav]

Buy a stainless Sidewinder and make it work.

[jerry freeman]

Why not use mild steel like the rest of the world, hedman, hooker, every sbc, etc?

Jerry

[jerry freeman]

Buy a stainless Sidewinder and make it work.

What is that?

[starkejt]

Huh? Stainless steel (304, 321) is a very common header material. So is mild steel. The weight difference in practice is negligible between the two. Many formula cars, FB/C/F, have SS headers.

[jerry freeman]

Everytime I do something in the formula car world I realize how different it is from where I came from. Please forgive my stupidity. I'll keep trying to change my mindset. Thanks for your help always.(everyone)

Jerry

[starkejt]

Let's not go calling ourselves stupid.

[Mike Devins]

Jerry, a lighter and cheaper way to go to use re-purposed OEM Ti headers that is if you can weld them yourself. The issue is you should make more than one since they do not hold up well to the under hood temps that we see.

[ghickman]

Jerry
In my opinion save your money and go with mild steel.

You may be able to get a mini sprint header from Peter D and modify to fit. I've made at least 2 this way and it went ok for us.

Peter D may have some header kits that will work also which saves time.

[RobLav]

I made one header from a Peter D base out of mild steel. It worked. This engine, I made it out of stainless.

A Sidewinder exhaust exits out the side rather than under the bike engine.

[jerry freeman]

Thanks Rob, Gary, and Mike. I have 3 sets of Ti stock headers I was going to make a set out of. Problem is getting a small amount of welding rods (welding is not a problem). I've built alot of headers before and will do it again if I have to. Last set I built was for a stock body mustang with a big block ford in it. Swore I would never build a set again after that. Charged $1200 (cost for a Stohr header) and lost $1200 with the time I had in them. I have a lead on a header that should work.

Rob, I googled the sidewinder after you posted. Guess I should have known that.

This car should be done by now. Everytime I tell myself I'm just going to finish it as quick and cheap as possible I spend money on something I was planning on upgrading later. Then I have to look at the unfinished heap a little longer.

Jerry

[Mike Devins]

Jerry,

ti welding material

I have used these guys before.

Be sure to back purge the tubing if you do decide to use the Ti.

[starkejt]

A trailing shield is a good idea as well.

[RussMcB]

I found buying one of these saved me work.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage...e-9,61244.html

You may have to do some searching to get the desired tube diameters.

[R. Pare]

On the tech side, the main reasons for stainless headers are thermal it's thermal properties - stainless transfers heat at about 1/3 the rate of mild steel, and is stronger at elevated temperatures (meaning that it can also be made with thinner walled tubing). It can also be wrapped with ceramic cloth or mesh without having to ceramic coat the insides and not worry about falling apart in a couple of weekends.

On the non-tech side, it look cool.

[cparsons]

I sort of combined what Gary and Russ did. I "re-purposed" the bends I got wrong when bending the hoops and ended up with (if memory serves) 18" primaries, 4 into 1 exiting right side of engine under clutch case. Should keep the clutch plates nice and warm...

[10rmotor]

Jerry
In my opinion save your money and go with mild steel.

Ever run mild steel headers for any length of time on a motorcycle motor? I have, and I can tell you that they don't last very long. Sure, if you like rewelding every few races then they're fine. Don't even think about wrapping them as then you'll never know when and where they are cracking until its too late.

I've made over a dozen stainless headers and not had a single problem with cracking. I back purge with CO2.

But if you want to use mild steel I have a bunch of 1 5/8 u bends you can buy.

[Northwind]

Mild steel headers work on bike motors. I have done them on a number of cars. Ceramic coating helps with surface corrosion. The key to long header life is proper mounting and support bracket position. Make sure to keep all the header joints in a neutral position in regards to a bending moment when building and reassembling them. When putting the header assy back on the car, the header should be completely assembled and springs should be in place prior to final tightening the exhaust flange bolts at the head to primary pipe joint. This procedure helps eliminate stress and fatigue failure on the header.

[S Lathrop]

Mild steel headers work on bike motors. I have done them on a number of cars. Ceramic coating helps with surface corrosion. The key to long header life is proper mounting and support bracket position. Make sure to keep all the header joints in a neutral position in regards to a bending moment when building and reassembling them. When putting the header assy back on the car, the header should be completely assembled and springs should be in place prior to final tightening the exhaust flange bolts at the head to primary pipe joint. This procedure helps eliminate stress and fatigue failure on the header.

I would suggest that you not ceramic coat a mild steel header. It traps heat in the steel thus increasing the operating temperature of the header system.

For corrosion protection, just oil the system after you run. Over time the burnt oil will do a good job of protecting the header from corrosion. You can use WD40 for a quick job, but I have found that using tranny fluid gives the best results when you start the process. This is an old time solution to a constant problem. The finish over time will look like gun bluing.

[ghickman]

I'll back Steve up on the DO NOT CERAMIC COAT the headers. I've been using the tranny fluid trick on headers for 4 decades now and it works.

Proper header construction has a lot to do with keeping them from being stressed when installed. Proper use of hangers and springs to allow them to move without adding stress keeps them from cracking.

[10rmotor]

Yep, all the things you guys point out are true. The thing is, look at all the negatives associated with mild steel headers. All of them are centered around crack prevention. Who wants a header to be another maintenance item? The cost to make the headers isn't much more, only the price of the material is significant, so why cheap out here? Besides, you can ceramic coat stainless and keep the heat in for a few more HP if the sizing is correct.