Originally Posted by Daryl DeArman
It's all good until the cat finds the sandbox..................
It's all good until the cat finds the sandbox..................
Scott
You have durable goods: manifolds, exhausts, trannies and non-durable goods:
tires, fuel, oil etc and that's why the discussion per the Manifolds never got as
intense as the tires, because you buy one expensive manifold and hopefully it
lasts for 5-10 years, but try doing that with tires!
Mark
F1200 did do it with tires already that last 2 plus seasons. Difference is these tires are cheaper then the current Hoosiers or Goodyears...well I guess if you currently have a tire deal with a manufacture it might be hard to compete against free or subsized programs. I guess I would not want a spec tire then.
Steve Bamford
My thoughts exactlyGod I love Chatrooms !!and Im on my way to pick up my $250 manifold too!!!plus I will soon be racing again,at the back!!I dont bloody care..its the spirit of it all..and damn good fun....sod the tires/manifolds/blah bloody blah..im gonna race soon
G.
G. Brian Metcalf
72 AutoD MK4
1991 Mysterian M2
2014 ALR73 FV/FST
How many people do you think get these "tire deals"?
It's time the F1200 Canadian guys stop diggin' at the SCCA guys for the choices made up to this point in the history of FV. I can't believe some of these nasty comments about fellow racers.
Doesn't the F1200 series use most of the SCCA rule book regarding FV? Maybe SCCA should get paid for that somehow
The F1200 series covers 3 tracks in one part of the country with how many drivers? 20? The SCCA covers all the tracks, all the regions, all the drivers, all the classes in the USA and for the most part does a good job of it and has been for almost 50 years. I can go to any race across the whole USA, Regional or National, without changing a thing on my car and compete because of this.
It sure is easier to get 20 people to agree on something than 400 people to agree. You guys need to take it easy on the assumptions that people that are against a hard spec because they have an advantage.
FV is NOT a spec class and trying to introduce anything Spec is going to be difficult. For the people that want to change, they have an outlet through the proper process as all changes through FV history have been made. Right or wrong but usually upsetting the least amount of people.
-Andy Pastore
NER
SCCA
USA
Last edited by ajpastore; 02.13.12 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Removed snide remarks...not what I meant the post to be about!
Thanks Andy but some of us F1200 drivers are SCCA National drivers as well.How many people do you think get these "tire deals"?
It's time the F1200 Canadian guys stop diggin' at the SCCA guys for the choices made up to this point in the history of FV. I can't believe some of these nasty comments about fellow racers.
Doesn't the F1200 series use most of the SCCA rule book regarding FV? Maybe SCCA should get paid for that somehow
The F1200 series covers 3 tracks in one part of the country with how many drivers? 20? The SCCA covers all the tracks, all the regions, all the drivers, all the classes in the USA and for the most part does a good job of it and has been for almost 50 years. I can go to any race across the whole USA, Regional or National, without changing a thing on my car and compete because of this. How many races can you go to?
It sure is easier to get 20 people to agree on something than 400 people to agree. You guys need to take it easy on the assumptions that people that are against a hard spec because they have an advantage.
FV is NOT a spec class and trying to introduce anything Spec is going to be difficult. For the people that want to change, they have an outlet through the proper process as all changes through FV history have been made. Right or wrong but usually upsetting the least amount of people.
Don't worry F1200 drivers. The SCCA and SCCA drivers will continue to write your rule book. And we don't need your help or insults!
-Andy Pastore
NER
SCCA
USA
You are 100% correct that doing something regionally & have the 40 members of FTDA agree upon something is a lot easier then having 400 members agree to it. There have been posts saying regionally this hasn't work & most F1200 guys disagree with that based on our experience.
It seems the comments made by myself you don't appreciate however there is truth behind it.
-Steve Bamford
SCCA & CASC
USA & Canada
Last edited by Steve Bamford; 02.11.12 at 4:21 PM.
Steve Bamford
Thats funny. Not sure how it applies, but it is funny.It's all good until the cat finds the sandbox..................
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
Question 1. Some of the people against are some who get these "tire deals".
Question 2. I too can race across our country without having to change a thing. Going to the US I am able to put my more expensive manifold in & run on my skinner tires that cost me more.
Re question 2, wouldn't you have to run the spec tire if you are running in SFR region or do you run those already? If not then that would be a change you would have to make.
Re Rule Book - I think the F1200 Series made the right choice with its changes vs. what the SCCA rules
Your posts on promotion of FV in other threads is something that needs to be done & will make a bigger difference to getting new drivers involved.
Steve Bamford
Is F1 a spec class because they run a mandated tire?..
I don't want to ban Vortecs. I was just making the point that early on it was determined that FV should allow inovation and devlopment. It wasn't a spec class. Hence we have a votec that is vastly different than a Formcar, I'm not sure that turning it closer to spec than it previously was is good for the future of the class. Inovators like Rod Stout,Al & Mike Varacins, and Stephan Davis,and Brian Harding among many others have been good for FV because they keep people thinking and looking for ways to go faster. Thats how racers should think.Anyone who comes up with a better mousetrap from a 20+ year old rule should be rewarded for there enthusisam not denegrated because the rest of us now have to catrch up.
butch deer
Who's contesting that? You're arguing with yourself?
If you're referring to intake manifolds, the established intake manifold makers agreed to an interpretation of the rules, and there was no manifold development for many years. Then Brian came along. After 3 years of BS, thousands of dollars wasted, dozens of parked cars, the manifold makers are all respecting the rules again and there is stability. We know who makes the best intake manifolds because everyone is respecting each other and working to the same rules. This topic is old news. It was only brought up in the context of who was trying to help, or not help, FV today.
PS ..... I think it is awesome that the winner of the 2011 Runoffs was the same winner as the 2001 Runoffs, driving the same ladder-frame car with all the same whizzy bits including shocks, shock valving, etc. Rumor has it that it was even the same intake manifold, now updated. To me, that is what is great about FV!
After 49 years, everything has been tried, and unless the rules get changed, there will be no significan t innovation. I'm fine with that. I am opposed to any rule changes that will take that away from FV.
Last edited by problemchild; 02.11.12 at 5:42 PM.
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
What Does Fv/1200 need for the future?
Just to lighten up this thread .
What does FV/1200 need for the future
We need the dedication and enthusism of the present membership.
I just witnessed it fisrt hand , having returned from the Canadian Motorsport
Expo.
The FTDA (Formula 1200 Drivers Association) have set up a booth with 2 cars / a 3rd
car was set up beside a Grand-Am Ferrari at another location.
The booth was equiped with tv showing in car videos, hand outs for the association
outlining the club/cars /equipment/series.
I would like to thank all the volunteers from FTDA for their hard work.
Having just purchased a formula vee, and recently joining FTDA
Atfer a 30 year haitus from a sport I love. I know i made the right decision.
Thank you for your hard work, I look forward to working with you.
But yet it got intense enough for a rule change on a $1500 part that could last years because "costs were getting out of hand" all while twice that much+ on tires every year is not a problem to many of those who had a fit over the manifold???
In case it still isn't clear...I have no problem with $1500 manifolds; the manifold rules weren't clear enough to prevent a better mouse trap. Just because nobody had "gone there" in 20 years doesn't mean they couldn't have.
Agreed.
Huh? Where was this defacto standard published? I and others have made manifolds. I was never notified by anyone what this interpretation was I used the RULES as published. Garbage. The existing manifold makers did it because that is what THEY THOUGHT were the rules. It never occured to them that they could do what was done. You are kidding yourself if you think no one would have done what Brian did if they thought of it. To the contrary, after Biran did it, the others did also. BTW , is there a agreement on how much HP a Vee is alowed to make? Carb flow? What is the agreement on brake material, aero drag, etc.
The RULES have to be used to determine limitations, not some secret agreement that a group of "established manifold makers" agreed to. The rules were flawed. Brian charged what he thought the market would bear. Free enterprise. EXACTLY what every other builder/manufacture adheres to. Only Karl Marx said" From each as his abilties to each as his needs" And you know how that went,
Let's not bring the manifold situation into this. It was a disgraceful episode for the class that really caused me to lose quite a bit of respect for the SCCA rules enforcement process, but what's done is done.
Matt King
FV19 Citation XTC-41
CenDiv-Milwaukee
KEEP THE KINK!
I would like to add to this. I have been at the show for the past 2 days promoting FV/1200, and spoke to many people.
Now these are FACTS not assumptions, most people that stopped to seriously discuss the series did not know that it exisited. Most were under the assuption the FF/1600 was the entry level open wheel racing series.
Car cost and operating expenses were the most important subject. From how much for a car, to how much it cost to run to where to get parts.
What is the average car count, how competitive would I be. These were the main questions asked, aside of how to get started.
To get back to the original subject of the thread. I don't think the questions are Canadian or US specific. All our regions will face the same issues. All the talk of tires, manifolds, track fees, weight.... Will determine how these questions are addressed. But if the goal is to increase the car count with new blood, these are some of the question they will start with.
I think that is a needless shot.
What is going on, is people are defending ideas and attack from those that are strongly opposed to people speaking out. From what I see, everyone posting here is a FV/1200 driver, and everyone is sharing experiences and ideas with everyone else.
So what if SCCA rule book was copied, written, stolen...Changes were still made to meet the times at hand.
Sometimes being a small group of 40 or so, makes it easier to implement ideas, But that being said, it becomes a test bed for something larger.
Last edited by nbrigido; 02.11.12 at 6:57 PM.
nbrigido, I think what you're seeing is the frustration of having the F1200 guys beating the FV guys over the head over and over with the F1200 solution that FV completely understands by now. They are sharp guys!
The F1200 facts are out there, as are several other success stories and otherwise, that FV is using to draw from.
At this point, F1200 continuing to remind FV of the F1200 solution is not helping. Perhaps outsiders need to let FV move forward, discuss their own situation, and form their own decisions.
To be very clear, I voted for the spec tire. I just do not want to waste one of my 60 hrs a week on making it happen. I KNOW the chance of success are too small for the effort that will be required. You guys are all talk and no action. Nor do you have the political chops to make it happen.
60 hrs a week.... I am not particularly slow but very thorough. I would estimate it takes 500 hrs to sniff out an extra .5 hp IF I am lucky. It is my hobby. I promise not to sell it to anyone if that makes you feel more comfortable.
Brian
Matt, while the thread may be mostly discussing spec tires, the thread is about what FV needs. Some feel the manifold solution/snafu is one compenent of what FV needs/needed. Just as others feel that the spec tire is what is needed, while others will look back at it as a snafu.
I agree that innovators and tinkerers should be praised and appreciated. Of course it sucks when someone develops a new "must have" that costs more money, but that's life. However, I don't think any vee drivers are developing their own tires. Some might be testing new stuff that hoosier comes up with, but introducing a spec tire does nothing to stop class innovation.
Actually we are working on a compound that is a good 1 sec a lap faster, lasts 1 session. Price is $400 / tire.
FV has been successful for almost 50 years because of modest costs, extremely close competition, and fields large enough that almost anyone can find someone to battle with regardless of driver talent and car prep. It is also due to the service of people like we have in our commitee who donate hundreds of hours per year often without credit or proper appreciation. Stevan Davis asked us if we could help come up with ideas to revitalize FV.
I believe there are two facets to this issue. How do we retain existing drivers and encourage them to participate more and often and how do we bring in new drivers. Spec tires and raising min. weight deal with the first. I consider the tire survey we participated in as an initial probe to see if there is enough interest to pursue it further. It seems it has enough support to explore further. While we wait for the full results, I believe we should stop arguing over whether we should or shouldnt have a spec tire, we should list our concerns so that if it does go forward the committee asks the right questions and we end up with a successful result together. I think a new thread should be started with what the worries would be that would result in a bad tire program and ideas on how to end up with the right tire program.
I support ideas on both sides of the weight debate. We should keep FV as accessible as possible from the perspective of body types, budget restraints and time restraints. On the other hand we need to be sure we arent make excuses that defeat ourselves before we even take to the track. I am 60lbs over the min. weight and was in the top ten at the runoffs on the first lap before succombing to mechanical issue. I have a lot of work to do to improve my driving and car setup. The weight disadvantage is not as big as some would make you think. Either way get out and compete. I am not in FV to win a championship and claim fame and glory. I am in FV because I love driving these cars and fighting my friends on track and then having a beer or two and laughing with them after. Those who dedicate the most will always find themselves at the top of the pile and thats the way it should be. My biggest concern over this issue is posts that talk about drilling 3in holes in chasis or building cars of insufficient strength to make min. weight. This is unsafe and unacceptable. This is the only reason I feel any need to raise the weight. Could someone start a survey with a simple up or down question on this to see if we should pursue this or kill it depending on support one way or the other. In the mean time I will be spending time on a simulator, working on my car and losing as much weight as I can.
Sorry for making this post so long but I want to say a couple more things that I think are important. When I went throught my drivers school, there were at least 3 other new FV drivers in the school. I think I was the only one that competed in at least one event this last year. (2 years later.) If I didnt have the support of my father and his 30+ years of FV experience I dont know if I would have competed either. If we had experienced drivers that could take a day or two to meet new drivers and help properly prep their car and show up at their drivers school to support them and deal with any issues, I believe we would make a huge difference in retaining people that have bought a car and joined the FV community. Do we have any drivers that would be willing to do this? This should be a discussion for a new thread.
Finally, IMO the only way to make a big impact on bringing FV numbers closer to what they used to be is through promotion. NOBODY KNOWS WE EXIST!!! How can expose new people to the class, get them into a car and keep them in the class. I will start a new thread to be used as a community brainstorming exercise with this goal. Hopefully we can come up with some good ideas, pool our resources and make a real difference.
I agree with Brian. FV and SCCA will die. It is up to us whether that is 5 years from now or another 50 years from now. We need more fresh ideas and better organization and less comments on others points of views
After PASTORES comments Im EXHAUSTED!!!
What FV really needs is April to arrive so we have something to do besides post here.
I have asked a few times so I assume the data doesn't exist in a easily attainable format, but we have to consider is FV shrinking faster or slower than SCCA road racing as a whole? It would be interesting to understand if car shrinking counts is a FV or SCCA issue.
One data set that I believe has not been brought up - is there a list of weights at the run offs or nationals available anywhere? It would be interesting to see the car + driver weights of the fast guys.
Thanks,
Craig
I'm with ya AndyHow many people do you think get these "tire deals"?
It's time the F1200 Canadian guys stop diggin' at the SCCA guys for the choices made up to this point in the history of FV. I can't believe some of these nasty comments about fellow racers.
Doesn't the F1200 series use most of the SCCA rule book regarding FV? Maybe SCCA should get paid for that somehow
The F1200 series covers 3 tracks in one part of the country with how many drivers? 20? The SCCA covers all the tracks, all the regions, all the drivers, all the classes in the USA and for the most part does a good job of it and has been for almost 50 years. I can go to any race across the whole USA, Regional or National, without changing a thing on my car and compete because of this. How many races can you go to?
It sure is easier to get 20 people to agree on something than 400 people to agree. You guys need to take it easy on the assumptions that people that are against a hard spec because they have an advantage.
FV is NOT a spec class and trying to introduce anything Spec is going to be difficult. For the people that want to change, they have an outlet through the proper process as all changes through FV history have been made. Right or wrong but usually upsetting the least amount of people.
Don't worry F1200 drivers. The SCCA and SCCA drivers will continue to write your rule book. And we don't need your help or insults!
-Andy Pastore
NER
SCCA
USA
Mark Filip
If everyone spent as much time promoting FV, FST or 1200 we would not be 15 pages and 587 posts into a bitch Fest we would have 100+ potential new drivers.
Mark Filip
We need a promotional video like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQQo97Vg0wo&sns=em
Mark Filip
When "your" business is declining, it does not matter if other people's business is declining too. You have to turn "your" business around. It does not matter what head office is doing, or your business owners association, or the chamber of commerce, or your fellow franchisees ..... you fix "your" business.
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
Very cool video!
Is there any association for FV that is established to help promote & deal with rules issues? Or is this left up to SCCA with CRB & others. Not that they do a bad job, they just have every class to worry about.
Steve Bamford
If you look back a few posts I referenced something that apparently was attempted a few years back but never took off. I did however stumble over this over the weekend -
http://www.facebook.com/groups/117853503114/
Which I think is the same folks who tried to start a National FV Association.
It's a start anyway
Bob Stack, Hartland, WI
CenDiv - Milwaukee region
New idea
Why not do like FF did and have several classes but have ours under one umbrella.
FV-1 - Current FV - Decisions about changes made only by FV owners drivers.
FV-2 - Current FST - Same thing. When changes are needed, the FV-2 group decides.
FV-3 - New class for air-cooled VW stroker motors and Porsche 914 engines/transaxles like Super VEE This is an open class like FS. Can run 2000+ CC engines, 4 speeds, 5 speeds. Not many restrictions and they decide what changes are needed. Fat tires and wings? More draw for the younger crowd?
FV-4 - Vintage FV.
This gives current drivers a way of changing classes without throwing everything away. Fathers could turn over their FV to the sons and the Father goes on the FV-2 or FV-3. New blood would see a progression from FV-1 to FV-4 and stay in the class instead of going to FF or SRF.
Just a thought. Blast away.
This is the role of the FV Ad Hoc committee, which reports up through the CRB to the BoD, and is the group that conducted the recent spec tire survey. There is no functioning group outside of the SCCA structure in a similar capacity that I am aware of.
Matt King
FV19 Citation XTC-41
CenDiv-Milwaukee
KEEP THE KINK!
So you want 1 and 2 car fields instead of 10 in most regions?
Mark Filip
Ummm, when did FF ever have mutiple classes ? Are you thinking of FF vs CFF?
Bill Bonow
"Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"
That was a great video. They really should have shown the shot of the Monza podium though with the sea of fans below.
If we had this kind of footage, it could be done. I'm not aware of this diversity of footage. We seem to have a good amount of in car stuff, but not much of the ancilery footage that makes the bulk of this video.
It is obvious that there is still some misunderstanding about the role/function of the FVAHC. The Committee is an 'Ad Hoc' Committee - which means 'SELF APPOINTED and GOVERNED" - we "report" to noone but ourselves - we are not elected, we simply VOLUNTEER to do what we can to help the FV class and community. We have no official stance with SCCA - but a few of them do recognize that we CARE and have some expertise from which they can draw. The BOD has not ever officially asked for our input to the best of my knowledge. The CRB has asked on a couple of occasions (semi-officially), but in both that I can recall at the moment, our recommendation was ignored and they went their own way. In the end, neither the CRB nor BOD will take rules CHANGE action without MEMBER INPUT outside of the FVAHC - we become just 8 guys - who, like everyone else, can send in our comments when asked for member input.
The original purpose of the FVAHC was to try to develop a plan for migration of FV into the future (possibly something like FST). Over quite a few years and many 100's of hours of effort, it has become clear to the Committee that the general FV populace prefers rules stability instead of migration. The FST group broke off from early discussions to start their own group and PROVE that they were right. There is no 'ramp' between FV and FST (or anything else) - it is a STEP FUNCTION. The Committee has not been able to come up with any plan to 'partially improve' FV from what it is today to 'something more attuned to the future'. Every possible change has immediately been perceived as a 'must have', which would require EVERY serious competitor to update right away - many of whom SWEAR they would quit instead - and we can't afford to lose 30% of our ranks.
THEREFORE, the Committee has become a 'watch tower' of sorts, keeping our eye on parts issues and such and suggesting rules tweaks via the FSRC (which *IS* sanctioned by SCCA and to which we have a liaison member) - also to which ANYONE can suggest similar tweaks or changes, when we thought they were needed. In a couple of cases, we also suggested rules CLARIFICATIONS which are NOT rules CHANGES to head off things like the Manifold fiasco, which we did not become aware of until it was too late.
Most of us also keep our eye on the forums to see which way the wind is blowing - example in case - Spec Tire. This was addressed several years ago and soundly trashed by the members. We thought it MIGHT be time to revisit it. I believe the results of the recent poll will be posted over on the Interchange later this evening.
The Committee has also attempted to spearhead an effort to get some sort of fv PROMOTION program started - like getting a DVD to hand out - or a leaflet - or a TV spot or similar. However, none of the Committee members has any real expertise in this area and none of the volunteers that did, have followed through to any end result so far. The F1 promotional video mentioned above is really cool.. but I'm pretty sure it cost well above any of our annual salaries to create it - probably 50 times more. OTOH, I have seen some pretty decent low budget clips - SRF, Ireland FV Association, and SM all have youtube videos that are pretty decent IMHO. Whether the videos have helped their class is an unknown. If anyone out there HAS video equipment and expertise, we are open to help - contact me of any of us.
A question was asked about 'UnitedStatesFormulaVeeRacing' - that group was formed (and hoped to be an "association" by Anna and Ray Qualls - you can see their website at http://formulaveeracing.org/Home.html. Anna proposed that we start an association a couple of years ago. For those that don't know, we HAD an association that lasted some number of years and did fairly well - when the economy was decent and we had a sponsor (Valvoline). We had well attended ProVee races around the country. However, when the MONEY died with the sponsor pull out, no one wanted to tow to the 'away' races and the series and association died. Lisa Noble did what she could to hold it together, but it just wouldn't stay. To expand on this a bit, it may not be immediately apparent just how much WORK it takes to put together an association .. or arrange for a single class race at an appropriate venue ... or simply to gather 3 or 4 people together to DECIDE what to do with such an organization. We have volunteers that are gung ho to begin with, but the hours start to pile up - then it interferes with work and family, and then we need new volunteers .. and there aren't any and everything dies. Unless there is enough MONEY to actually PAY someone to manage these things (ala the Pro F1600 and F2000 series) they die. Even SCCA has had great difficulty managing a Pro series for FE and SRF ... and we don't want to talk about SCCA Pro Racing, do we :-). Guys - it's a great plan, but ....
Actually, I'm really surprised that the Committee has hung together as much as it has for as long as it has. The grief and bashing we take on the these forums is unbelievable. And, no - we haven't been able to get much accomplished. But it isn't because we haven't tried.
In the meantime, I really wish the posters on the various forums would keep one thing in mind BEFORE they post. These are OPEN forums - a LOT of people stumble by and read what you say. I have recently seen a 16 year old kid, SERIOUSLY interested in FV, give up on it primarily because of the bickering and ...other stuff... posted on the forums. To an outsider, it begins to NOT look so much like a friendly group any more and that is a real shame.
Andrew's well spoken post (#583 above) is right on point - we all need to try to work TOGETHER and listen to all inputs. The Committee is TRYING to do just that - we are in it for the good of the CLASS OF FV. We get paid nothing, we have no 'vested interest' other than being participating members and we spend unbelievable amounts of time trying to resolve issues that, generally speaking CANNOT be resolved ... but we try any way.
This is Stevan Davis speaking here - I have not run this by the rest of the Committee - so don't blame anyone else but me. Fire me if you want. I could do without the stress of being on the Committee. Sorry this is so long, but there were a number of topics I felt I needed to cover.
Steve, FV80 (racing FV since 1977)
Steve, thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize the FVAC had no official standing within the CRB structure. Is the same true of all the other classes that have Ad Hoc committees (e.g. A Sedan?). I recall seeing requests for resumes to join other class committees being posted in Fastrack which made me assume they had some official standing. Seems like they ought to give you guys a little more respect.
Matt King
FV19 Citation XTC-41
CenDiv-Milwaukee
KEEP THE KINK!
Matt,
Most of the other committees are NOT "ad hoc" - they ARE vested (and thusly somewhat controlled by) SCCA. SCCA picks the members. We pick our own members. I *THINK* that SCCA is somewhat bound by what the other Committees recommend since they are in effect "owned" by SCCA. I have asked, but not gotten an answer of just how and why those committees came about. I have NOT asked if we could become "officially recognized" (and therefore controlled) by SCCA.
It is easily clear WHY they were formed - obviously elected members (BOD) and volunteers (CRB) cannot become instant experts in all of the myriad of classes within SCCA. Also, many members see class competitors or CSR's being on the committees is perceived as "self serving", I think you would find that 99.99% of them are there for the same reasons we are .. just to help the class to the best of their abilities. LOTS of work - few volunteers...
Steve, FV80
Steve, thanks for the post as it help explains a lot.
Is there a way to allow the committee to have a strong say within the SCCA as it seems to be a group of FV peers?
Steve Bamford
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