Tire comparison

[Garey Guzman]

I've read that a lot of Regions use the R60 for CF, or allow either Hoosier R60 or Goodyear R600 for the class. How do they compare? Does one have an distinct advantage? How many heat cycles can you get out of the Hoosier?

Any help is appreciated.

[EYERACE]

you can probably run the R60 down to the cord before their handling and lap times drop off substantially but most of your competition will change 'em before that and then gain a few seconds a lap....but even then they would have run them probably 3 or 4 weekends. many of us down south are now just running our older CFs in FF just to get away from the R60 spec tire in CF....there is a small group of us in FF [ not just the CFs that are now back in FF ] that will go to GY 430s not the 160s

[Jim Garry]

you can probably run the R60 down to the cord before their handling and lap times drop off substantially but most of your competition will change 'em before that and then gain a few seconds a lap...

Are you implying that "a few seconds a lap" is not a substantial drop off in lap time?

[Rick Kirchner]

We run the 600's in CFC out here in SoCal. I put 'em on my FC just to get a lot of laps in on the cheap. Ran 'em 22 heat cycles and they look almost new. Big problem was the inability to get heat in the tires. I did see acceptable temps at fontana, running 130 on the banking in 100 degree sunny weather. Part of it was me not driving hard enough, but part of it was no stick. Acceptable for hot weather testing I suppose, in that they will stay consistent for a long time, but you'll need to re-adjust your baseline from something based on softer meats to get anything from your data.

[EYERACE]

Garry.....good point. you can gain a couple of seconds a lap by putting on a new pair vs. a pair that's two weekends old - and that can make a podium difference - which is why i oppose the imposition of a spec tire - but a pair that's two weekends old would not be several seconds faster than a pair four or five weekends old so they don't drop off much as they age - until you get down to cord of course - and the thing here was that people would just put on a new set when they were no where near cord, and then win, so i decided that i would oppose a spec tire 'cuz it really didn't hold down costs in the way it could have - unless the idea would have been a new set of GY 160's every time

[Garey Guzman]

Thanks for the replies.

I was actually looking for people from regions where CF is allowed to run either GY R600 or H R60. If a choice is offered, is there a preference? Or do most regions/organizations have a single spec tire for CF?

A decision to run a spec tire has already been made. I'm just wondering if it's prudent for us to have a choice between the comparable compounds from Goodyear and Hoosier.

[BrooksHall]

After racing a set of 600's for a full season in 02 in CFC I can tell you infatically that a sticker set is actually worse than a set with two or three heat cycles on them. If someone were to buy a new set they better have a chance to "break" them in or they'll go slower. The biggest difference from a 430 is that you can hammer a 430 from the green the 600's took a hard lap in warm temps to get sticky. If the weather is cold they won't come up to temp for a long time. I ran 4 double race weekends on the same set and set the CFC lap record on my 19th lap of the 8th race. A lap I might add that would have put me third on the FC grid for that race. Buying a new set of 600's is not nearly the advantage as buying a new set of 160's or even 430's so this will save Cal Club FF drivers money.

[J.D. King]

Garey,

I ran both the Hoosier 60 and Goodyear 600 this season.
I started off the year on Hoosiers after having a bad experience with the Goodyear 600s last year. The GY tires I had last year were the worst tires I have ever had the displeasure of spending money on. I think they must've been more than a year old and they wouldn't even pick up a pebble after coming into the paddock on a 95 degree day. I was pretty pissed about that.
So I started this year on a set of Hoosier 60s and found that they were fairly consistent after 8 races and 24 heat cycles. They did drop off, but by how much compared to those crappy GYs from last year I don't know, that would be useless data anyway.
After losing a couple of races after leading on the Hoosiers, I decided to break down and buy a new set of GYs(which goes against the theory of running a spec tire, because they supposedly last all season and make the racing cheaper, lol...........ooops, I fell off my chair from laughing so hard) for the NEC finale at the Glen. I figured I better buy a set so I could be competitive and run for the NEC points lead in NCF(NARRC Club Ford).
The Hoosiers require a completely different setup to take full advantage of the tire, mostly due to the difference in the sidewall construction/stiffness difference. I put the GYs on and strapped on the old GY setup and was pleasantly surprised and relieved that this set of 600s seemed pretty fresh.
I do like both tires when they are new, but experience tells me that the GY stays a bit more consistent over the heat cycle where the Hoosiers lost quite a bit near the end of the cycle in the latter stages of their life.
Plus, for some odd reason, the Hoosiers lose air in the front tires when sitting, like an old rain tire would. I never dipped them in a tank of water to see where the air went, but I thought this was very strange. They would lose air over the course of a week where after 7 or 8 days they would be flat. I think this is strange for a new tire that has no dry rot in the sidewall.

[DaveW]

Losing air is not unique to Hoosiers. A lot of race tires lose air at that rate due to not having an innerliner, the lining of relatively impervious rubber that is in street tires to keep the air in. In racing tires, air is kept in by the tire structure which is made of stuff that air can penetrate. If the tire is particularly thin at some point, such as a wear indicator hole, or any molded-in depression, that thin area can lead to relatively rapid air loss.

After a tire is run, some of the carcass integrity may be lost due to flexing and air leaks out more rapidly.

[Garey Guzman]

J.D.
Thanks, that was EXACTLY what I was wondering. Any others with recent experience with both tires?

How different were your setups for the GY vs. H?

[mike m]

Garey,

I ran a GY160 and a H R60 this year. We ran more camber for the R60. Sorry, that is not what you are looking for.

Up in the CenDiv most will not think an advantage to a new R60 over a many cycle tire. My experience is consistant thru 16 cycles and trails off when into mid 20 heat cycles. I am talking tenths not seconds. I do know of a racer who thinks he has an advantage on newer R60's but again, not seconds. It may be that certain cars work that way.
My experience on R60's was in a CF Dulon MP21 and a FF Vector.

Mike